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OT: Carolina RailHawks to Rebrand, Push for MLS Bid

garnetpalmetto

garnetpalmetto

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Jul 12, 2004
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CalUK said:
I don't know much about Raleigh to be honest, but would a downtown arena when PNC deal runs not better for the Canes attendance? Getting a new owner with a vision to for something like this would go a long way to making sure the team stays in NC.

Would it not be better for a football team to be in the middle of the city too?

What the transport links like for PNC Arena anyway? Is it easy? I know in bigger cities having an arena/stadium further from the city centre is ok as long as you've got good transport links similar to how Arsenal in London have an underground station next to the stadium. Like its been said already, I think its good to have the arena somewhere close to shops and nightlife so that people can make a day of it. If I ever manage to get over fear of flying I'd love to come to Raleigh to see the Canes (I'd have been there already if it wasn't for flying), and would like to see what the city is like before and after the game.
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No, a downtown arena wouldn't help attendance any and would, IMO, probably lessen it. First, PNC Arena is located closer to the geographic center of the Triangle and allows easier access for people living in Durham and Chapel Hill as well as people coming in from Eastern/Southeastern Wake County coming in via I-40. Second, the tailgating culture is a key component of the fan culture here. You'd lose that with a downtown arena that likely lacks its own parking lots. As for transit links, abysmal. I quote myself:

[P]ublic transit in all but the largest American cities is haphazard at best. Let's say, for instance, I decided I wanted to save the gas and the parking and take public transit from my house in Durham to PNC. I'd literally have to leave at 1:00 PM to get to the game before 6:00 PM. Here's all the steps I'd have to take to boot.

  • From my house, I'd have to walk 1.2 miles (about 25 minutes) to the bus stop at Mineral Springs Rd at NC-98.
  • Get on the #23 DATA bus - ride it for 17 minutes/18 stops to Raynor Street at The Village
  • Wait an hour at Raynor Street at The Village bus stop
  • Change buses to the #3 DATA bus and ride it to Durham Station (another 13 minutes/16 stops)
  • Wait 10 minutes at Durham Station
  • Board the GoTriangle 700 Bus to the Regional Transit Center (20 minutes/20 stops)
  • Wait 5 minutes at the Regional Transit Center
  • Board the GoTriangle 100 Bus and take it to the Blue Ridge Rd at State Fairgrounds Stop (25 minutes/6 stops)
  • Walk another 1.1 miles (about 20 minutes) to PNC Arena.

So I get to PNC at 5:15 after 4 hours and 17 minutes of enjoying public transit. Awesome! Hockey! But oh no, if I stay for the entire game, I'll be stuck in Raleigh and unable to use public transit to get back to Durham until the next day. When do I have to leave PNC so that I can get back home that night? 5:32. Yes, literally as soon as I get to PNC I have to leave. How far out in the sticks do I live? Ask Dave (NB: And Hank), not far at all. Taking my own car I'm literally a 20-30 minute drive to PNC.
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Lethargic said:
If I had to bet, MLS to Raleigh and MLB to Charlotte.
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Charlotte would need a stadium that's appropriate. They don't have that. BB&T Ballpark, while brand new, is inappropriate for an MLB park. Ironically, The Castle would have been more appropriate and was designed to be expanded into an MLB park.

raynman said:
Is MLB planning on expanding? I don't really pay much attention to baseball at all these days.
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There's some talks of going to 32 teams, but I get the feeling MLB wants to make sure Oakland and Tampa Bay have their houses in order first with new ballparks.
 
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CalUK

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Feb 16, 2015
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garnetpalmetto said:
No, a downtown arena wouldn't help attendance any and would, IMO, probably lessen it. First, PNC Arena is located closer to the geographic center of the Triangle and allows easier access for people living in Durham and Chapel Hill as well as people coming in from Eastern/Southeastern Wake County coming in via I-40. Second, the tailgating culture is a key component of the fan culture here. You'd lose that with a downtown arena that likely lacks its own parking lots. As for transit links, abysmal. I quote myself:





Charlotte would need a stadium that's appropriate. They don't have that. BB&T Ballpark, while brand new, is inappropriate for an MLB park. Ironically, The Castle would have been more appropriate and was designed to be expanded into an MLB park.



There's some talks of going to 32 teams, but I get the feeling MLB wants to make sure Oakland and Tampa Bay have their houses in order first with new ballparks.
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That's crazy how long it takes. To think it only takes me 45mins (at most because it can be very busy given the team's arena is in a shopping centre or mall for ppl in NA) on a bus to my local teams arena.

I take it there is some sort of shuttle service from Raleigh City Centre then? I'm sure I looked that up once.

I do think football stadiums are better outside city centre (as long as transport isn't an issue) because like you said, lack of room in established cities (and thus parking as well). I remember when Arsenal moved from Highbury to the Emirates Stadium, they were lucky there was room so close to the old stadium.

As for the name of the team, defo keep the Railhawks! There is no need for the FC thing, its far too common, doing stuff differently makes the team stand out from the crowd. As said already, Railhawks is very unique to my knowledge, so why not keep it?
 
Navin R Slavin

Navin R Slavin

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CalUK said:
As said already, Railhawks is very unique to my knowledge, so why not keep it?
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Because everyone in the US has football envy, and we have to pretend that our teams belong somewhere else.

Like Real Salt Lake. OMG REAL SALT LAKE.

We should take a page from Bern, because then I could say that I'm a big fan of Raleigh Young Boys.
 
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tarheelhockey

tarheelhockey

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CalUK said:
I take it there is some sort of shuttle service from Raleigh City Centre then? I'm sure I looked that up once.
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The team has a couple of "party bus" type shuttles that run between downtown hot-spots and PNC arena. While not technically public transit, it serves that function for the downtown crowd.

Raleigh, and southern US cities in general, are simply lacking in public transit. Not just lacking in some culturally relative way, but lacking in terms of the basic needs of a large metropolis. It's so different from the European standard that there's always a bit of culture shock for people who go back and forth between the two.
 
DaleCooper

DaleCooper

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No, a downtown arena wouldn't help attendance any and would, IMO, probably lessen it. First, PNC Arena is located closer to the geographic center of the Triangle and allows easier access for people living in Durham and Chapel Hill as well as people coming in from Eastern/Southeastern Wake County coming in via I-40. Second, the tailgating culture is a key component of the fan culture here. You'd lose that with a downtown arena that likely lacks its own parking lots.
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These are both valid points and the strongest arguments against the next arena being downtown, but I still think the trend is inevitable. Plus downtown Raleigh is the heart of the region and will be even more so by the time a new arena or stadium is built (if ever) 10 or 20 years from now or whenever it may be. Already today you have more than 15,000 residents within a mile radius of the center of downtown, 45,000 employees in downtown proper, and something like 15,000 visitors a day on average, with all 3 of those numbers expected to grow strongly. That's an excellent built-in population to draw from that already exists.
 
geehaad

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Anyone else ever been in the position of finding a new place to live and choose to rule out an area because of the distance to the arena?

I've definitely done that, more than once.
 
tarheelhockey

tarheelhockey

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If they were to take the arena downtown, it would be an interesting shift to a more Raleigh-based rather than Triangle-based identity, and also a break from their strong connection to NC State. I'm not sure quite what that would mean in the long run. It would certainly be a gamble.
 
DaleCooper

DaleCooper

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That is assuming that NC State doesn't also relocate downtown. I still think this is 10 to 20 years in the future and by then they may be just as interested. Downtown would certainly be more accessible to campus.
 
Navin R Slavin

Navin R Slavin

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tarheelhockey said:
If they were to take the arena downtown, it would be an interesting shift to a more Raleigh-based rather than Triangle-based identity, and also a break from their strong connection to NC State. I'm not sure quite what that would mean in the long run. It would certainly be a gamble.
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By the time there's a new downtown arena in Raleigh, I'll be able to climb into a self-driving Uber and drink as many beers as I want on the way there and back. Works for me.
 
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tarheelhockey

tarheelhockey

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Gotta Catch Em Staal said:
That is assuming that NC State doesn't also relocate downtown. I still think this is 10 to 20 years in the future and by then they may be just as interested. Downtown would certainly be more accessible to campus.
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Frankly, I'm not so sure NC State needs another NHL-sized arena. They'd be better off with a 12,000 seat arena than what they have now.

The politics of moving on from PNC will be interesting on all sides. It's remarkable how many different entities came together to make this arena happen. By the time this conversation really gets traction, everyone from that era will be gone. It'll be interesting to see how the institutional partners react to the idea of going back in with each other on another project.
 
raynman

raynman

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Jan 20, 2013
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tarheelhockey said:
Frankly, I'm not so sure NC State needs another NHL-sized arena. They'd be better off with a 12,000 seat arena than what they have now.

The politics of moving on from PNC will be interesting on all sides. It's remarkable how many different entities came together to make this arena happen. By the time this conversation really gets traction, everyone from that era will be gone. It'll be interesting to see how the institutional partners react to the idea of going back in with each other on another project.
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Sounds like an excuse to start a D1 hockey program.
 

The Stranger

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May 4, 2014
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On a related note, Minnesota United is making the jump from NASL to MLS and just had a ground-breaking on a new stadium.

 
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