OT: Carolina RailHawks to Rebrand, Push for MLS Bid

[MinJaBen]

Does the city have no plan to improve this? Surely a city of its size could support a tram system for example.

Politics in this state/country basically equates trains with communists and liberal leftists. It makes it very difficult to get things done. Couple that with the nature of the area where it makes the most sense to include the whole triangle region (Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill) but you then have to work with three separate cities and counties. That slows things down a lot.

 

[CalUK]

I don't see what the problem is, surely its important for cities to have good public transport systems? It would help the local economy and tourism I would have thought.

Looks like I'd to bring someone with me that drives if I go over, I don't drive :|

 

[the halleJOKEL]

okay communist that is just a slippery slope to having universal healthcare giving out free abortions instead of getting reamed by the health insurance industry

you "people" make me sick

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

this is hard for me bc now that i am settled in atlanta my plan was to go all in on being an atlanta fc fan


now i am just not sure


probably still stick with atlanta but railhawks/new team will be second

but then a rivalry will rise out of those two, for sure

so its tough

 

[The Stranger]

Politics in this state/country basically equates trains with communists and liberal leftists. It makes it very difficult to get things done. Couple that with the nature of the area where it makes the most sense to include the whole triangle region (Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill) but you then have to work with three separate cities and counties. That slows things down a lot.

Wake county voters just approved a tax hike referendum to pay for a 10 year / $2.3 billion public transportation plan.

http://www.movingwakeforward.com/the_plan

 

[MinJaBen]

Wake county voters just approved a tax hike referendum to pay for a 10 year / $2.3 billion public transportation plan.

http://www.movingwakeforward.com/the_plan

I saw that today as well. And there is an ongoing project in Durham and Chapel Hill to create a light rail corridor between the two cities. That does not mean either will get done. They've been talking about doing some version of light rail in the Triangle for more than two decades now and we are still in the planning stages. Again.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

I saw that today as well. And there is an ongoing project in Durham and Chapel Hill to create a light rail corridor between the two cities. That does not mean either will get done. They've been talking about doing some version of light rail in the Triangle for more than two decades now and we are still in the planning stages. Again.

The hardest part is to get $$$ allocated. Now that's actually happened, things will move.

I'd be happy with heavy rail from Downtown Raleigh to Downtown Durham every hour. We've got the track.

 

[Unsustainable]

If I had to bet, MLS to Raleigh and MLB to Charlotte.

 

[CalUK]

Why do they want to change from Railhawks? It's quite unique as far as I know. The proposed team name is fine imo, but its nice to keep the original name sometimes for the sake of the teams history.

 

[raynman]

If I had to bet, MLS to Raleigh and MLB to Charlotte.

Is MLB planning on expanding? I don't really pay much attention to baseball at all these days.

 

[Hockeywatching]

Why do they want to change from Railhawks? It's quite unique as far as I know. The proposed team name is fine imo, but its nice to keep the original name sometimes for the sake of the teams history.

I agree with this. I loved the name and logo. While having a Raleigh team join the MLS would finally motivate to really follow soccer (other than every 2 years for the big summer Cups), why change the name and logo in this way?

I'm honestly asking as in I don't know the motivation to go from something unique to something so bland. I'm still perplexed every time I see [City] FC when they are all just franchises.

 

[Joe McGrath]

They should be Railhawks ST. That'll show those FC hipster doofuses what's up.

 

[DaleCooper]

Somewhere on the fringes of downtown makes sense for a new arena or small stadium (MLS size) and I find it difficult to believe the city would ever have any role in one being built anywhere else. The days of arenas in suburban or rural areas are behind us nationwide (and never begun most places internationally) and every long range planning effort the city has done over the last decades reinforces that.

As for transit, things change fast. The referendum in November was huge. It's been 15+ years in the making (I basically ended up on a path to eventually becoming a transit planner after becoming interested in the failed attempts in the mid-2000s).

Picture Raleigh 15 years ago and picture it today. The transformation is unbelievable. The city is trying very hard to make sure Raleigh doesn't go the way of Atlanta. The renaissance of downtown and other urban neighborhoods of the city is only going to continue along with a focus on improving transit, walkability, bicycling, etc. Part of this is because people are demanding it. Half of new residents to the area are moving into apartments and condos. There is a nationwide demand for walkable neighborhoods that are less car-oriented that is not being met and cities are viewing it as critical for economic competitiveness. The other issue is that there is simply no way the Raleigh region will be able to function in a couple of decades if its growth is funneled into sprawling car-oriented neighborhoods. The latest population projections I've seen show Raleigh growing by 50% between 2010 and 2030. That's remarkable.

Having an arena or MLS stadium built near downtown doesn't mean the city suddenly thinks everyone is going to stop driving to games, but it provides an option, which is what really matters. Choice is important. I would love to see the mode share numbers for the downtown Charlotte arena, which was integrated really well with the Lynx Blue Line. The thought of Charlotte becoming more urban and having real transit options seemed just as impossible to people a few decades ago, but they've proven that it can be done.

 

[Carolinas Identity*]

They should be Railhawks ST. That'll show those FC hipster doofuses what's up.

How about "SK Railhawks FC"?

bit of a shout out to all the northern Europeans on the Canes

 

[DaleCooper]

Oak City FC is my favorite

 

[tarheelhockey]

I don't know much about Raleigh to be honest, but would a downtown arena when PNC deal runs not better for the Canes attendance? Getting a new owner with a vision to for something like this would go a long way to making sure the team stays in NC.

A hockey-sized arena would make more sense downtown than a soccer stadium IMO.

I think Nashville makes a good case study. For those who haven't been, take a look at downtown Nashville on Google Earth.

Hockey arena -- right on the main tourist strip, practically shoulder to shoulder with major hubs like the convention center and state capital.

Football stadium -- across the river in a sea of parking lots, accessible by footbridge but otherwise in its own district.

Indoor arenas are multi-purpose venues which can host all sorts of events, and are physically smaller in scale so that they don't require as massive of a footprint. They usually draw much smaller crowds so that you don't overwhelm the city's infrastructure. You can stick one of them in a city district without being highly disruptive, as in Nashville and Charlotte, and know that it's going to be a hub of activity year-round and most nights of the week.

By contrast, the outdoor stadium is very limited in use, much larger in footprint, and usually will be intended draw massive crowds. I would assume that an MLS team would be aiming for the 20,000+ range with an upside closer to 30,000 for big events. That means major changes in downtown infrastructure, if it's to be done well.

If I ever manage to get over fear of flying I'd love to come to Raleigh to see the Canes (I'd have been there already if it wasn't for flying),

FWIW, an 8 hour overnight flight from the UK means you can essentially knock yourself out with medications and sleep through the whole experience.

 

[DaleCooper]

I generally agree with you that outdoor stadiums make less sense downtown since they have limited uses, but an MLS size stadium is a very different proposition than NFL or NCAA. Red Bull Arena for example (probably the best existing soccer-specific stadium in the US, though I'm a bit biased a season ticket holder) is only a slightly larger footprint than PNC Arena. There is also condo development going up surrounding the stadium. If done right a 20 to 30,000 seat soccer stadium can be integrated into the urban fabric. A location on the fringes of downtown probably makes the most sense though so it's not a black hole on non-game days.

 

[Carolinas Identity*]

FWIW, an 8 hour overnight flight from the UK means you can essentially knock yourself out with medications and sleep through the whole experience.

ahhh yes...

"medication"

 

[tarheelhockey]

A location on the fringes of downtown probably makes the most sense though so it's not a black hole on non-game days.

That's the real issue with a stadium that size. An indoor arena is going to host events more nights than not. A soccer stadium will play the MLS home schedule, maybe pick up the odd high school game or state championship, maybe some concerts during the summer, and otherwise be a big empty space in the middle of downtown. That's a development killer. It makes the whole surrounding area feel unsafe and economically dead.

Charlotte had this issue for years with Bank of America stadium turning 3rd Ward into a dead zone 358 days a year. Fortunately it was tucked into a corner so the damage was contained, but that part of town didn't do anything at all until the Knights stadium and the new park were built to replace the empty lots. Then, finally, development started to creep over in that direction.

 

[DaleCooper]

True, but a stadium can be designed so that there are other uses in the space that can operate 365 days a year. The Verizon Center might be the best example of this in the United States, or something like the Bleacher Bar at Fenway Park.

 

[DaveG]

Oak City FC is my favorite

That's actually a great name for a team.

 

[tarheelhockey]

True, but a stadium can be designed so that there are other uses in the space that can operate 365 days a year. The Verizon Center might be the best example of this in the United States, or something like the Bleacher Bar at Fenway Park.

It's possible, but it would have to be extremely well done to work in a place like Raleigh. Fenway Park is basically a cultural attraction unto itself and sits in central Boston, the Verizon Center is right in the tourist core of DC with a whole district built up around it. It's kind of hard to imagine what kind of business could operate out of a big empty stadium in Raleigh, and have financial success and curb appeal in the long run. Something like the Bleacher Bar would probably not last long.

TWC Arena in Charlotte included a few small shops, and would be a model for how a mixed use stadium facility might operate in a Raleigh-sized downtown. But I don't get the sense that those shops have actually moved the needle at all for TWC, either for its financial viability or for the surrounding district. They're mostly just there to make the building look more approachable.

 

[HisIceness]

I have no issue with the 'Canes playing where they are other than the fact that the arena sits on the same land as the Football stadium/fairgrounds and has to schedule around those events plus NC State basketball. The tailgating is probably one of the coolest fan traditions that you can find in the NHL and when the team was good, opposing fans raved about it. You have to take the good with the bad, and the tailgating outweighs the bad IMO. A DT arena would almost certainly take that away. There's probably more major-league teams playing outside DT areas than you might think. The San Antonio Spurs for instance play where the city has a rodeo arena instead of near the famous riverwalk.

But a DT soccer stadium for Raleigh just seems, perfect. I could be wrong, but I believe the MLS plays a lot of their games on the weekends and occasionally on Wednesdays. This would be beneficial for those in Durham and Chapel Hill who want to go to games, they won't have to fight the workday traffic as often as they would for a Tuesday night Hockey game or concert. And being that this potential stadium would also play host for ACC/NCAA tournaments, this would be an extra boost for DT Raleigh businesses.

Why do they want to change from Railhawks? It's quite unique as far as I know. The proposed team name is fine imo, but its nice to keep the original name sometimes for the sake of the teams history.

In this case Cal I agree with you here. 'FC' just doesn't do it for me, we don't even call it 'Futbol' here in the states to begin with. I get it, but I've always thought it was kind of lame when MLS teams started dropping their names for 'FC'. I also think adding 'North' to the name is kind of a slap in the face to our friends in the Palmetto state. IIRC, the Hurricanes were close to adding 'North' to Carolina Hurricanes back in 1997 but decided against it, probably because it was more of a mouthful to say, but still gives nod to South Carolina.

I'm not sure what the inspiration was behind 'Railhawks', but I've always liked the logo.

 

[AntonFromAppState]

I'm not sure what the inspiration was behind 'Railhawks', but I've always liked the logo.

If I remember correctly one of the fans came up with the name and the team just liked it.
http://www.trisoccerfan.com/wtf-is-a-railhawks/

 

[raynman]