Confirmed Signing with Link: [CAR] Jesperi Kotkaniemi signs offersheet with the Hurricanes (1 year, $6.100035M) [Part IV]

[Habs Halifax]

He has plenty of incentive if he wants to be part of the Canes. He knows he’s being overpaid to get him out of Montreal. If he doesn’t blow up he probably isn’t getting qualified. There’s a good chance the Canes have an extension at a lower price ready for him that’s a better situation than not being qualified.

The Canes aren’t doing this to trade him. They obviously want the player, the whole revenge concept is being overplayed here.

Answer with honesty... Do the Canes do this if the Habs didn't offer sheet Aho?

Also, Of course they would take the player cause there was no way they would do this if they didn't consider the Habs not matching. It is revenge but this time, the team considering to match or not has a bigger decision and I believe we won't match. Good luck with Kotkaniemi is what I say and I believe he has a few more growing pain years left. His skating is not going to change overnight. So the big risks here are how much he tries to use his leverage next off season and what kind of season he has.

Habs will take the picks and see if we can hit with that unprotected 1st. Personally, I would not be desperate to replace KK for this next season cause we can slide Poehling into that spot and deal with the same issues.... a young player learning on the job. Same results and same faith for our team in the end.

Is KK worth more than a 1st and 3rd? I would say yes if the 1st is 20-30 range but we don't know where the pick is yet. I'd take my chances and use KK's cap space on our other kids we have to sign in the next two years. If we match on KK, what's stopping the Canes from trying it on Suzuki or Romanov?

 

[Incubajerks]

The risk / benefits are exactly the same for Carolina and Montreal. Same player, same contract, same potential.

The difference is Carolina is risking a 1st and a 3rd round pick, while Montreal is risking an old 3rd overall that has already lost quite a bit of value.

Sure, the Canes just killed KK's value. But this is true both for Montreal and Carolina.

If KK doesn't break out this season and the Canes are forced to let him walk or give him his QO at 6,1 millions, I doubt anybody will call this a good deal in 1 year, after wasting a 1st for nothing.

Basically, the Canes are betting everything in KK breaking out THIS season. And this is not the most likely scenario IMO.

You just wish that.

 

[Gainesvillain]

He has plenty of incentive if he wants to be part of the Canes. He knows he’s being overpaid to get him out of Montreal. If he doesn’t blow up he probably isn’t getting qualified. There’s a good chance the Canes have an extension at a lower price ready for him that’s a better situation than not being qualified.

If he isn't qualified he becomes a UFA.

Carolina may indeed have told KK they have an extension ready for him, but what's KK's incentive to take a big discount from the $5-6 million QO without testing the open market?

Carolina will be battling against the leverage they gave to the player themselves next year. Maybe the team promises to slot him into the 2C slot when Trocheck is done, but Bergevin already promised him the 2C slot this coming season in Montreal!

 

[Martin Elz]

I'm going to start this with saying i'm no fan of either team.

If the reports are true about Carolina wanting KK. And a 1st and 3rd wasn't going to get the trade done...This is an old school deal were cold hard money gets it done. Pre-salary cap organisations would pay eachother millions for a player. Now Carolina decided to pay the player the money instead of adding more picks or prospects.

Personally i don't like offer sheets, they drive prices up and less to lockouts.

If i was Montreal i would take the picks. KK was a very hyped reach at the draft, who haven't developed to what his draft position inclined.

We are coming into a strong draft. And Carolina lost their best offensive defenseman. And the goalie rotation makes them questionable in my opinion to finish top 3 in their division.

For me, Montreal needs to rebuild.

 

[didimentionlarseller]

Also is this likely?

as a Habs fan I sure hope so for me Suzuki is the obvious choice to keep of the 2

 

[LOFIN]

Carolina may indeed have told KK they have an extension ready for him, but what's KK's incentive to take a big discount from the $5-6 million QO without testing the open market?

Yeah, I mean no players have ever taken a pay cut to play for a specific team in the NHL...

 

[Habs Halifax]

So what is the buzz? Is MTL going to match or is he going to play for the Canes next season?

Voting on the Habs board says we don't match (large majority).

Eric Engels and other media members have said they are hearing that the Habs won't match

 

[Guttersniped]

Pretty sure this contract explicitly makes him untradeable- players signed to offer sheets can't be traded within a year of signing them, whichever club they end up on. This deal is only for one year.

I haven’t found anything that says Carolina can’t trade him, only that the receiving club matching an offer sheet can’t trade the player for a year after “the date of first refusal”.

I’m not saying there isn’t a rule preventing the submitting team from trading a player after a successful offer sheet somewhere in the CBA but I haven’t found it.

 

[swiftwin]

Carolina may indeed have told KK they have an extension ready for him, but what's KK's incentive to take a big discount from the $5-6 million QO without testing the open market?

How is that any different from any other pending UFA? Lots of players re-sign with their team when they're a pending UFA. If KK genuinely likes it in Carolina, there's no reason he shouldn't accept a reasonable offer even if it's below his potential QO. It's not like he's going to get $6.1m in the open market.

For all intents and purposes, Kotkaniemi is a pending UFA right now.

 

[Mr Positive]

If he isn't qualified he becomes a UFA.

Carolina may indeed have told KK they have an extension ready for him, but what's KK's incentive to take a big discount from the $5-6 million QO without testing the open market?

Carolina will be battling against the leverage they gave to the player themselves next year. Maybe the team promises to slot him into the 2C slot when Trocheck is done, but Bergevin already promised him the 2C slot this coming season in Montreal!

I don't think Carolina will have a hard time getting him at that extension. This was discussed with the player and agent, and there's a framework.

Of course KK could change his mind and test free agency, but I don't think all players desire to test free agency. It depends of course, but if KK fits in really well in Carolina, he will be eager to re-sign. If it's rocky like with Montreal, he probably goes to UFA

 

[Habs Halifax]

It still makes him untradeable after the 1st year, unless he explodes this season. Or unless he agrees to a cheaper deal, which he has no incentive to do.

KK has more RFA leverage and is going to walk away with $6.1M after this next season. However, all that means is he has leverage and it's not likely going to be $6M+ moving forward. It can be if he bust out though. Prior to this, he was worth about $2.5M on a 2 or 3 year bridge (maybe $3M for 3 years and $2.5M for 2). So he's got a bump of $3M and depending on what he does next season, he could get a 5 year deal at $4M - $5M maybe. However, if he struggles and either the Canes or Habs decide to bridge again (1 or 2 years), he's going to be a massive headache and if you let him go, the Habs loose their 3rd OA pick or the Canes loose their 1st/3rd for nothing. Not that easy to decide on. Canes created a situation here that has risks to whoever has him moving forward now.

Personally, I don't see his skating improving overnight. I think he can put up more points but evaluating young talent is not all about points. Especially at center. The 200' and NHL physicality is the area he is struggling with. I don't see that changing in one off season

 

[Tryamw]

Yeah, I mean no players have ever taken a pay cut to play for a specific team in the NHL...

Especially when they know they won't hit their QO on the open market

 

[Stickpucker]

Are you excited to see him take ice time from your actual good players?

What good players? Habs fans in here claiming they getting a high pick.

 

[Stickpucker]

Is it ridiculous to buy the $7 loaf of bread? My wife thinks so. But I really like the $7 bread because it has tons of fiber and makes my poop break off just right at the end, and we have plenty of money to live on, so who cares? Why does rando guy in the super market give a shit if I put the $7 bread in my cart? It don't affect him none.

Freud would have fun with this post.

 

[Stickpucker]

Just wrapping my head around why this was such a smart acquisition for them.

My first instinct was that it was purely a revenge move, but I've been told that's not true.

Pure hockey move.
Love the player.

Don't have a spot for him, but we'll figure that out later.

Look I know Dundon did you dirty and you're upset. Why care how it turns out for the Canes?

 

[Frank Drebin]

What good players? Habs fans in here claiming they getting a high pick.

Your good top 6 players. While I don't think we'll be getting a high pick, you can have a poor team with good players (Edmonton comes to mind)

 

[Frank Drebin]

Look I know Dundon did you dirty and you're upset. Why care how it turns out for the Canes?

I don't care. Well, no. If I'm being completely honest I hope it ends up terribly for the Canes. I'll actively be cheering against them and hope that Kotkaniemi fails miserably. I don't think he will, but I will be cheering for that outcome. I hope you don't hold that against me, just being honest as a fan.

But there is this persistent narrative that this was actually a hockey decision, and revenge was just a bonus. That part I don't buy. The hockey decision doesn't make any sense when you look at their roster. Its primarily a revenge decision, I haven't been convinced otherwise.

 

[Stickpucker]

Terrible analogy. Maybe it would work if you were in a spending capped competitive grocery buying league.

Have you been paying attention to hockey post cap era?

Not much more valuable in this life than a good poop.

 

[TheFinalWord]

If he isn't qualified he becomes a UFA.

Carolina may indeed have told KK they have an extension ready for him, but what's KK's incentive to take a big discount from the $5-6 million QO without testing the open market?

Carolina will be battling against the leverage they gave to the player themselves next year. Maybe the team promises to slot him into the 2C slot when Trocheck is done, but Bergevin already promised him the 2C slot this coming season in Montreal!

His incentive is he's probably already agreed to that deal, but wants it in Carolina and not in Montreal. There's a chance they haven't agreed to this deal, either, but I'm guessing this has been worked out already.

He better pray Montreal doesn't match, and if they do, he better have one of the hottest starts to a season ever, or he's going to be crucified.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I haven’t found anything that says Carolina can’t trade him, only that the receiving club matching an offer sheet can’t trade the player for a year after “the date of first refusal”.

I’m not saying there isn’t a rule preventing the submitting team from trading a player after a successful offer sheet somewhere in the CBA but I haven’t found it.

I was thinking about that as well and I don't know the answer. We usually grow in knowledge as fans by past examples or something we can read in the CBA but I also don't see it. I looked for a bit and gave up

 

[AD Skinner]

I haven’t found anything that says Carolina can’t trade him, only that the receiving club matching an offer sheet can’t trade the player for a year after “the date of first refusal”.

I’m not saying there isn’t a rule preventing the submitting team from trading a player after a successful offer sheet somewhere in the CBA but I haven’t found it.

Hmmm you may be right. Now I'm not seeing any such thing either- I may have been mistaken

 

[Habs Halifax]

What good players? Habs fans in here claiming they getting a high pick.

You are spinning it on purpose or not comprehending it right. The unprotected 1st might be 15-25 range and I would bet on that. However, teams do have set backs due to unforeseen circumstances. It's possible the Canes miss the playoffs and it's 10-15 range. I'd like to see your reply on that? "zero chance" right? That would be just a typical HF board thing to do

Disagree or did I miss a post? Prove it! Who said we are getting a high pick?

 

[Stickpucker]

I went on the Canes board to say my opinion on it, it's on one of the first couple pages. It's actually very complimentary.

I just can't stand the spin angles some posters do, it would be like me saying, thanks for taking him suckaz, you did us a favor. No, this offer sheet sucked either way. It f***ed us. I'd much rather have rfa Kotkaniemi

Objectively, without the revenge angle this offer doesn't make a whole Lotta sense for Carolina. Sure they can probably squeeze him in the lineup somewhere, but that wasn't the intent. I don't believe that. The intent was to punish Montreal, which they did. The player is a minor benefit/side effect of the detonation.

And I know how fans can cope and justify the decisions of their teams, 2 weeks ago if you asked Carolina if they would trade a first and a third for Kotkaniemi, most fans would have said "why". It would have been even worse asking Habs fans if they'd accept a late first and third for Kotkaniemi- they'd say hell no.

But here we are, trying to get Christian Dvorak from Arizona and trying to shoehorn a developing center into a stacked top 6 in Carolina.

So Habs fan would've said he'll no to 1st and 3rd for JK but Canes wouldn't want him at that price?

Look at Canes draft....they aren't attached to names on jerseys they're attached to value.

JK for that is great value as you said. Canes are excited to get JK for a song.

 

[Tryamw]

His incentive is he's probably already agreed to that deal, but wants it in Carolina and not in Montreal. There's a chance they haven't agreed to this deal, either, but I'm guessing this has been worked out already.

He better pray Montreal doesn't match, and if they do, he better have one of the hottest starts to a season ever, or he's going to be crucified.

My guess is that when they talked to him they gave Carolina a rough totals /duration 4.0 for 4 or similar Canes go like no way Montreal doesn't match that. So.... ok 6.1 for 1yr Montreal can match but we think it is unlikely

 

[Frank Drebin]

So Habs fan would've said he'll no to 1st and 3rd for JK but Canes wouldn't want him at that price?

Look at Canes draft....they aren't attached to names on jerseys they're attached to value.

JK for that is great value as you said. Canes are excited to get JK for a song.

I think Canes fans would have said why would we target a center when we already have three and have moved necas to wing. Why would we spend those assets (regardless of value) on a position of strength when we need help on the wing?