Confirmed Signing with Link: [CAR] Jesperi Kotkaniemi signs offersheet with the Hurricanes (1 year, $6.100035M) [Part IV]

[Chrispy]

Burying him in the minors would definitely work. I might be wrong but I think his cap hit would be around $1.1M in that scenario, while paying him his complete salary ($4.45M).

I'm sure Gardiner would prefer to play and the Canes would prefer not to set $3M on fire. My guess is they're shopping him like crazy to the teams which are way below the cap, especially the ones which are still below the floor (Ottawa and Buffalo), for something like future considerations or an extremely low pick.

You've got that backwards. The maximum cap hit that can be buried is $1.125M, so Carolina would still be on the hook for a $2.925M cap hit for Gardiner even if he's in Chicago.

 

[Rockomax]

Burying him in the minors would definitely work. I might be wrong but I think his cap hit would be around $1.1M in that scenario, while paying him his complete salary ($4.45M).

I'm sure Gardiner would prefer to play and the Canes would prefer not to set $3M on fire. My guess is they're shopping him like crazy to the teams which are way below the cap, especially the ones which are still below the floor (Ottawa and Buffalo), for something like future considerations or an extremely low pick.

Can't you only bury 900k in the AHL on a 1-way contract?

 

[Guttersniped]

Can't you only bury 900k in the AHL on a 1-way contract?

Minimum salary (750k) + 375k can be buried in the AHL so it’s 1.125m this season.


NHL CBA FAQ - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[japhi]

Would the Habs have traded Kotkaniemi to Carolina for a 1st and 3rd? (Forget the offer-sheet occurred)
If the answer is no, then that means the Canes are underpaying in assets and overpaying in salary.

Because last year Nick Foligno was trade for close to this package for a handful of games. You cant sit there and say that trading an equivalent package for a 3OA 21 year old with team control and potential upside is a waste.

The whole problem with this deal is it concedes team control. After year 1 the team will not have traditional control of the RFA and there is a clear path to early UFA

 

[EdAVSfan]

The whole problem with this deal is it concedes team control. After year 1 the team will not have traditional control of the RFA and there is a clear path to early UFA

Not traditional control. But still control. He’s not a UFA unless Carolina or Montreal decide he’s a UFA. There also exists the potential to re-sign a long term contract.

Either way, you still own the players rights, and therefore the value that player has.
Is that value diminished by his contract? Of course. But that’s also not a guarantee.

 

[tarheelhockey]

You've got that backwards. The maximum cap hit that can be buried is $1.125M, so Carolina would still be on the hook for a $2.925M cap hit for Gardiner even if he's in Chicago.

Minimum salary (750k) + 375k can be buried in the AHL so it’s 1.125m this season.


NHL CBA FAQ - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Got it, you're right I had it the wrong way around.

So basically they have a strong incentive to trade him for a nominal cost if possible.

 

[GreatSaveEssensa]

This is a Blatent lie unless you think Suzuki getting a X year deal is GOOD for you One that takes him 1 year past FA.. You want to lock up your good players for longer term like we did with Svech. 5 years is anything but a favor and front loading the contract? Also not nice
Much like our OS nothing "illegal" but definitely not "Nice"
The AAV is fair though..

Ok fair enough. But to say my misinformed opinion is a ‘blatant lie’ is a bit extreme no?

I’m on the Canes side in this entire thing and am not a Habs fan in the least. I just figured that with such an easy offer sheet to match, and the stand still in negotiations (as he was left unsigned to the point an OS was presented to him) between CAR and Aho that it made it easy to match in turn locking up said player and ending stand off.


Sorry again to offend you so much but you really should chillax a little before calling out perceived ‘blatant lies’. I meant no harm and have no angle in any of this other than being an entertained hockey fan who felt like giving my opinion.

 

[WatchfulElm]

Would the Habs have traded Kotkaniemi to Carolina for a 1st and 3rd? (Forget the offer-sheet occurred)
If the answer is no, then that means the Canes are underpaying in assets and overpaying in salary.

Because last year Nick Foligno was trade for close to this package for a handful of games. You cant sit there and say that trading an equivalent package for a 3OA 21 year old with team control and potential upside is a waste.

The real question is : would the Canes be willing to trade a 1st and a 3rd for KK at 6,1 millions per year? And how many teams would do that?

This contract greatly reduces his trade value. It almost makes him untradeable, unless he truly breaks out.

A 1st and a 3rd is poor value for KK, but it’s good value under this contract.

 

[LOFIN]

The real question is : would the Canes be willing to trade a 1st and a 3rd for KK at 6,1 millions per year? And how many teams would do that?

The answer is obviously yes, since they practically did that via the offer sheet.

 

[Aurinko]

Haha this is getting weirder by the minute. People are working overtime to fit their narrative. Player going ahead with a 6 mil because he doesnt want to go to Buffalo. He signed it because it is a great deal, thats it.

Sure, It's a great deal (and it almost certainly prevents him from getting traded to Buffalo).

 

[AvatarAang]

The real question is : would the Canes be willing to trade a 1st and a 3rd for KK at 6,1 millions per year? And how many teams would do that?

This contract greatly reduces his trade value. It almost makes him untradeable, unless he truly breaks out.

A 1st and a 3rd is poor value for KK, but it’s good value under this contract.

I know you’re desperate to make this look like a bad deal for the Canes but it isn’t.

And to answer your original question, the Canes literally offersheeted Kotkaniemi at 6.1M, so yes they would be willing to trade a 1st and 3rd for him.

No one is denying that this new AAV reduces his value. But why does that matter to Carolina? They just depreciated the value of your 3rd overall pick to the point where he might not even be worth a late 1st.

Carolina can decide to extend him next year or not qualify him at all. They are risking a late 1st/3rd and extra cap space for a one season rental that could end up as their #2C long-term. Either way there isn’t much risk since they can just walk away next season.

Completely different from the Habs who invested a 3rd overall pick in Kotkaniemi. Habs fans were using him as a centrepiece in Eichel talks last week, now people are discussing whether he’s even worth a late 1st. Carolina just killed Kotkaniemi’s value this season, regardless if he plays for Montreal or Carolina. You have to be a homer to think this offersheet isn’t anything but atrocious for Montreal with almost zero risk/downside for Carolina.

 

[Guttersniped]

1. Got it, you're right I had it the wrong way around.

So basically they have a strong incentive to trade him for a nominal cost if possible.

It’s a tough contract to move with his back issues, it sounds like he would just go on the LTIR unless he can play. Lou has shown in life all things are possible but it was probably better to have tried to dump him a lot sooner (if he can be dumped.)

The Isles managed to move Ladd, who had two years left, for two 2021 & 2022 2nd (and a conditional 2023 3rd) but he only had 5m in salary left w/ a 5.5m cap hit. And it was still impressive that Lou moved that contract, the Coyotes were hungry for picks.

Gardiner’s hit is 4.05m but his contract is back-loaded with no signing bonuses though, 8.625m (4.2m +4.45m) is a lot of salary to take on.

Detroit took Leddy, who has a 5.5m cap hit for his one year but is is making 7m, and gave the Isles a 2021 2nd round pick for him and a cap dump, the NYI pay for 50% of Panik, 2.75m over two years (cap hit & salary).

Back surgery makes it sound like a LTIR thing though. (I don’t know what’s up with him exactly so *shrug*.)

 

[ottawa]

Nothing is stopping the Habs from matching the offer and next off season electing to have team arbitration.

No neutral arbitrator in his right mind will award KK more than 4 million per... especially if he has another 25 to 30 point season.

Pretty sure though Bergevin is working the phones to get a replacement for JK.

Can the Canes develop JK into a bonfire 2C? Maybe, but they won't do it playing 12 minutes a night on the bottom 6 and they will quickly see he's not a good option in the top 6 for now.

Canes are hoping JK can become their future 2C. Paying him 6.1 million and then 4 to 4.5 million is a lot until he gets there if he ever does.

To me, JK was always a Lars Eller type C, nothing more.

Guess time will tell.

An arbitrator can only lower the QO price by 15%

 

[Jeune Poulet]

Would the Habs have traded Kotkaniemi to Carolina for a 1st and 3rd? (Forget the offer-sheet occurred)
If the answer is no, then that means the Canes are underpaying in assets and overpaying in salary.

Because last year Nick Foligno was trade for close to this package for a handful of games. You cant sit there and say that trading an equivalent package for a 3OA 21 year old with team control and potential upside is a waste.

What a strange way to look at it. There's no such thing as separating assets and salary. The value of the player, the assets he is worth, is based on every factors, including his contract. That's how it works. Do you see anyone willing to pick up Skinner for a 7th round pick because it's "underpaying in assets and overpaying in salary" anytime soon? The value of the player is based on the whole package in a salary cap environment.

Someone already pointed out that this offer sheet basically ruins any team control. So it doesn't matter what kind of potential Kotkaniemi has in the long term, he is a lot less attractive than typical RFAs, now. You are paying 6.1M to develop him. It's quite different from picking up a veteran at the deadline, when rentals have the highest value. Foligno is a finished product that was traded to a playoffs-bound team willing to overpay.

If Kotkaniemi takes a major and sudden jump forward in development next season, then it can work out as a rental. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it seems very unlikely. I personally hope the Habs don't take this gamble.

 

[AD Skinner]

This contract greatly reduces his trade value. It almost makes him untradeable, unless he truly breaks out.

Pretty sure this contract explicitly makes him untradeable- players signed to offer sheets can't be traded within a year of signing them, whichever club they end up on. This deal is only for one year.

 

[WatchfulElm]

I know you’re desperate to make this look like a bad deal for the Canes but it isn’t.

And to answer your original question, the Canes literally offersheeted Kotkaniemi at 6.1M, so yes they would be willing to trade a 1st and 3rd for him.

No one is denying that this new AAV reduces his value. But why does that matter to Carolina? They just depreciated the value of your 3rd overall pick to the point where he might not even be worth a late 1st.

Carolina can decide to extend him next year or not qualify him at all. They are risking a late 1st/3rd and extra cap space for a one season rental that could end up as their #2C long-term. Either way there isn’t much risk since they can just walk away next season.

Completely different from the Habs who invested a 3rd overall pick in Kotkaniemi. Habs fans were using him as a centrepiece in Eichel talks last week, now people are discussing whether he’s even worth a late 1st. Carolina just killed Kotkaniemi’s value this season, regardless if he plays for Montreal or Carolina. You have to be a homer to think this offersheet isn’t anything but atrocious for Montreal with almost zero risk/downside for Carolina.

The risk / benefits are exactly the same for Carolina and Montreal. Same player, same contract, same potential.

The difference is Carolina is risking a 1st and a 3rd round pick, while Montreal is risking an old 3rd overall that has already lost quite a bit of value.

Sure, the Canes just killed KK's value. But this is true both for Montreal and Carolina.

If KK doesn't break out this season and the Canes are forced to let him walk or give him his QO at 6,1 millions, I doubt anybody will call this a good deal in 1 year, after wasting a 1st for nothing.

Basically, the Canes are betting everything in KK breaking out THIS season. And this is not the most likely scenario IMO.

 

[WatchfulElm]

Pretty sure this contract explicitly makes him untradeable- players signed to offer sheets can't be traded within a year of signing them, whichever club they end up on. This deal is only for one year.

It still makes him untradeable after the 1st year, unless he explodes this season. Or unless he agrees to a cheaper deal, which he has no incentive to do.

 

[bleedgreen]

It still makes him untradeable after the 1st year, unless he explodes this season. Or unless he agrees to a cheaper deal, which he has no incentive to do.

He has plenty of incentive if he wants to be part of the Canes. He knows he’s being overpaid to get him out of Montreal. If he doesn’t blow up he probably isn’t getting qualified. There’s a good chance the Canes have an extension at a lower price ready for him that’s a better situation than not being qualified.

The Canes aren’t doing this to trade him. They obviously want the player, the whole revenge concept is being overplayed here.

 

[japhi]

‘Great deal for the Canes, terrible deal for Montreal’ is almost as bad a take as ‘Aho offer sheet was a gift to the Canes’.

Some serious logic fail going on in this thread.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Can't you only bury 900k in the AHL on a 1-way contract?

Use to be $900k but it's a % of the cap. I believe it's just north of $1M now

 

[AD Skinner]

It still makes him untradeable after the 1st year, unless he explodes this season. Or unless he agrees to a cheaper deal, which he has no incentive to do.

He'll be untradeable after that year because he'll be a free agent...

 

[ottomaddox]

So what is the buzz? Is MTL going to match or is he going to play for the Canes next season?

 

[ottomaddox]

Also is this likely?

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

If KK doesn't break out this season and the Canes are forced to let him walk or give him his QO at 6,1 millions, I doubt anybody will call this a good deal in 1 year, after wasting a 1st for nothing.

Please, please, please explain to me how getting a full season worth of play out of Kotkaniemi could possibly considered nothing. Is he such a shit player that Brind'amour will be forced to healthy scratch him every night?

 

[Clark4Ever]

What comes around goes around. No one in Montreal should be upset at anyone other than Bergevin for this situation.

If the salary isn't justifiable, it might be best to cut bait and take the draft picks.