Post-Game Talk: Caps/Boltz 7pm (punch, pie)

[CapitalsCupReality]

I know some of you guys are still dreaming about top 6 wilson but being honest, I have no faith in Tom. And its not an overreaction after stretch of bad games or something, I just think he cant produce in offensive zone no matter if he plays with talents like ov and nicky or with scrubs in 4th line. He has like zero offensive instinct and we should stop getting crazy after every decent pass he made or shoot he took. At this point he is nothing more than Brooks laich 2.0 if we talk about secondary scoring (can we even name it secondary scoring?). And I dont really care about hits and grit at all. It cant win you a hockey game (ok, maybe sometimes it can) but definitely cant win you a cup.

To be honest, I think the fans dreaming about Tom Wilson being in the top 6 were probably the same people who were criticizing his development, and expected him to be something he probably wasn't going to be anytime soon, if ever. Misguided expectations of the 1st round tag.

I think Wilson's skills have progressed honestly. He looks better on his skates and plays a nice defensive role. What made him a wild card was his physical presence. That seems to be MIA for some reason. Hes not the only player struggling and not being physical. Either something is rotten in the locker room, or this is by design of the coaching staff. I guess injury could be an issue too, but I don't see any indication of one.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Not sure why they keep throwing Ovechkin out there for the SO. He is a ridiculously good goalscorer but he sucks in the SO's and that's been the case for few years. Never seems to score.

Only time he's good is when he's gone to the backhand. He should either do that, or pick a spot and snipe a wrister from 15-20 ft out every time. Straight down the slot, beat the goalie. One of the few shots in the league that should be able to do that with regularity.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

actually, Alan May highlighted it last night. 77 would fix some of this mess. Sure sign he needs an extension sooner than later.

Even then, 77 can only fix one line. What about the other 3, what about the defensive pairings?

 

[Langway]

To be honest, I think the fans dreaming about Tom Wilson being in the top 6 were probably the same people who were criticizing his development, and expected him to be something he probably wasn't going to be anytime soon, if ever. Misguided expectations of the 1st round tag.

I think Wilson's skills have progressed honestly. He looks better on his skates and plays a nice defensive role. What made him a wild card was his physical presence. That seems to be MIA for some reason. Hes not the only player struggling and not being physical. Either something is rotten in the locker room, or this is by design of the coaching staff. I guess injury could be an issue too, but I don't see any indication of one.

The front office and coaching staff raised those expectations by hoping he'd become a Joel Ward type player. Based on a recent WaPo piece it seems his lack of physicality on the forecheck is intentional and not because he's hurt or not engaged but that he'd rather have good stick position and try to create a turnover instead. Ultimately that's shown to be a rather poor idea because he's not playing to existing strengths--among so many that simply aren't--and his production hasn't increased whatsoever. He's a fine PKer but he was last year as well and he hasn't really developed at all this season otherwise (again, among so many).

Vrana seems to be a Burakovsky message sender. Bumping 65 off of PP2 is just the beginning of that provided 13 continues to show something.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

The front office and coaching staff raised those expectations by hoping he'd become a Joel Ward type player. Based on a recent WaPo piece it seems his lack of physicality on the forecheck is intentional and not because he's hurt or not engaged but that he'd rather have good stick position and try to create a turnover instead. Ultimately that's shown to be a rather poor idea because he's not playing to existing strengths--among so many that simply aren't--and his production hasn't increased whatsoever. He's a fine PKer but he was last year as well and he hasn't really developed at all this season otherwise (again, among so many).

Vrana seems to be a Burakovsky message sender. Bumping 65 off of PP2 is just the beginning of that provided 13 continues to show something.

With those expectations should come common sense and understanding. How long did it take Joel Ward to become Joel Ward effective NHL player? I'll tell you, he was age 28. 22 vs 28. 6 years worth of development difference. If his play is by design, then it's just another thing the coaching staff are making errors with.

 

[Langway]

With those expectations should come common sense and understanding. How long did it take Joel Ward to become Joel Ward effective NHL player? I'll tell you, he was age 28. 22 vs 28. 6 years worth of development difference. If his play is by design, then it's just another thing the coaching staff are making errors with.

At 22, Joel Ward was playing CIS hockey. He had a far more difficult journey to put himself on the map and take ownership of his game. Whereas Wilson was kind of gifted an NHL spot from the outset. No one should rely upon abnormal development curves as anything but the outliers that they are. If it takes Tom Wilson six years to make good on perceived upside it's probably going to happen elsewhere anyway.

Here's that article:

“If you’re playing 15, 16 minutes it’s harder to be running around finishing your check,” he said. “That’s pretty exhausting. You also want to be smarter when you’re going in on the forecheck; you want to be able to turn pucks over for your linemates. You’re not just going in making that big hit for momentum or to create space; you have that offensive mentality that you want to get the puck back. It’s a little bit different and something I’ve thought about going in, staying stick first and trying to strip pucks instead of just trying to kind of blow the guy up and make a big hit.”

I can't recall a single instance of Wilson blowing a defenseman up on the forecheck so far. Wilson has topped 15 minutes five times this season but on whole he's averaged 5 seconds less compared to last year. With Sanford, Vrana, Carey & Connolly all getting top nine looks and Williams & Burakovsky slumping it's not as though there's amazing scoring-line competition. And yet Wilson is not only not producing but is hardly a factor offensively most nights.

He may not be the primary issue but his play is symptomatic of their general offensive ineffectiveness. Calls for an offensive tactician/developer are very much warranted I think. The fate of their secondary scoring (and, hell, even getting their primary scoring going at a high level) may depend on it. Somehow they need to get going and telling them to just dig deeper doesn't seem like it's going to cut it. They need to think the game better across the board and a Try Harder approach won't change much. Their Try Harder approach seems mostly outcome-oriented and to develop the habits necessary to acquire killer instinct and the sort of mechanical execution needed they need to focus way more on the process. The offensive process remains too loose/unfocused and their raw skill level (and PP) no longer masks it.

 

[Hivemind]

Joel Ward was also an undrafted free agent who came out of the CIS. To call him a late bloomer would be an understatement. What indication has there been that Tom Wilson will also be a late bloomer? What indication is there that the player Wilson currently is (PKing 4th liner) is worth his current salary?

 

[txpd]

Even then, 77 can only fix one line. What about the other 3, what about the defensive pairings?

77 fixes one line. Say Ov and Kuzy. You bury Kuzy there where 77 and 8 can create the offense. 19 and 90 have produced fine. Beagle's line has been fine. Would be acceptable with one wing pitching in now and then. I still think Wilson will start scoring as the season wears the balance of the league down.

There is nothing wrong with the D pairs that Orlov's top 4 tryout ending wouldn't fix.

Oprik needs to be back with Carlson.

Edit: Wilson. No, I haven't seen any Caps forward blow up anyone in a long time. Makes me wonder if that is not coaching.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

77 fixes one line. Say Ov and Kuzy. You bury Kuzy there where 77 and 8 can create the offense. 19 and 90 have produced fine. Beagle's line has been fine. Would be acceptable with one wing pitching in now and then. I still think Wilson will start scoring as the season wears the balance of the league down.

There is nothing wrong with the D pairs that Orlov's top 4 tryout ending wouldn't fix.

Oprik needs to be back with Carlson.

Edit: Wilson. No, I haven't seen any Caps forward blow up anyone in a long time. Makes me wonder if that is not coaching.

Here's one thing that taking Orlov back to the 3rd pairing still won't fix. Through 23 games, our defense has 3 goals. Two from Alzner including one empty-netter, and a goal by Orlov that ran up the score in a lopsided contest.

How can we get them to hit the net again? All their shots have either been blocked or went high and wide.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Re: making proclamations about Wilson's NHL career, get back to me in 6 years. The guy is either going to be a late bloomer or he is what he is. I've always said he was going the Knuble long path if anything if he was to ever become a top-6 guy, so I'm not sweating it honestly. Many bigger fish to fry.

 

[Hivemind]

If it takes Wilson until the same age that Joel Ward or Mike Knuble broke out to become a consistent offensive producer, then Wilson will be having his breakout on another team. Both Knuble and Ward were on their 3rd NHL teams by the time they had a 20G+ season.

 

[artilector]

Caps are in Oates-hockey territory overall.
Would be interesting to hear BM's thoughts on the team, even the filtered version.
After this season I am ready to give up SC emphasis, just give me a team that will score pretty goals and throw some big hits!

 

[txpd]

Here's one thing that taking Orlov back to the 3rd pairing still won't fix. Through 23 games, our defense has 3 goals. Two from Alzner including one empty-netter, and a goal by Orlov that ran up the score in a lopsided contest.

How can we get them to hit the net again? All their shots have either been blocked or went high and wide.

realistically they need to score off the rush. NHL defense is so much about clogging the box and layed blocking that point shots don't get thru any more. that's why they don't bother with slap shots anymore a quick wrist shot that doesn't get blocked cant be seen by the goalie and might go in.

but getting clean shots only comes from transition and the rush

 

[txpd]

If it takes Wilson until the same age that Joel Ward or Mike Knuble broke out to become a consistent offensive producer, then Wilson will be having his breakout on another team. Both Knuble and Ward were on their 3rd NHL teams by the time they had a 20G+ season.

Except that Wilson contributes in other ways. Knuble was a scrub and that is why he bounced around. Wilson isn't a marginal player. He is a marginal scorer but he is becoming quickly one of the best penalty killers they have. Isnt he 1st or 2nd among forwards on the pk?

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

realistically they need to score off the rush. NHL defense is so much about clogging the box and layed blocking that point shots don't get thru any more. that's why they don't bother with slap shots anymore a quick wrist shot that doesn't get blocked cant be seen by the goalie and might go in.

but getting clean shots only comes from transition and the rush

We can't even get our forwards to get on the rush, surely we won't get any Dman to be on the rush except the occasional rushes by 9 or 74?

Looking at other teams with high scoring Ds, they're able to get even slap shots through from the point because their forwards cycle down low and create traffic in the slot. Our defense almost never pinches, it seems like Trotz doesn't want them to pinch ever since we got burned by the Pens on the counter attack last year.

 

[g00n]

We've reverted to drive-by defense, perimeter play, and lack of hitting. In the WaPo wrap up about last night's game iirc Backstrom talked about it, especially the lack of net presence and guys just cycling on the outside. Trotz talked about players not taking shots.

The team needs an identity, but maybe the lines need their own identities since the roster is so hodge-podge. Put all the speed guys together and let them play fast. Put all the grinders together and let them grind. Put the tweeners together. etc. And keep doing that instead of trying to force guys to do things they shouldn't be doing.

 

[Hivemind]

Except that Wilson contributes in other ways. Knuble was a scrub and that is why he bounced around. Wilson isn't a marginal player. He is a marginal scorer but he is becoming quickly one of the best penalty killers they have. Isnt he 1st or 2nd among forwards on the pk?

If you seriously expect them to pay $2M+ for a 4th line PKer for the next 6 years, you're out of your effing mind.

 

[SpinningEdge]

Except that Wilson contributes in other ways. Knuble was a scrub and that is why he bounced around. Wilson isn't a marginal player. He is a marginal scorer but he is becoming quickly one of the best penalty killers they have. Isnt he 1st or 2nd among forwards on the pk?

Laich, Brouwer, Chimera, and Ward all recently had top penalty kill minutes too. They're all gone.

 

[RandyHolt]

I wonder if Ted considers our games entertaining

 

[SpinningEdge]

I wonder if Ted considers our games entertaining

With his Wizards are now - China Town is nothing like it was just 2-3 years ago. Lots and lots of empty seats for both his teams.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

If it takes Wilson until the same age that Joel Ward or Mike Knuble broke out to become a consistent offensive producer, then Wilson will be having his breakout on another team. Both Knuble and Ward were on their 3rd NHL teams by the time they had a 20G+ season.

Great, so be it. Another feather in the GMGM cap.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

Great, so be it. Another feather in the GMGM cap.

Hopefully gmgm takes him back

 

[Hivemind]

Anywho, did nobody else notice that Kuznetsov used Matt Hendricks' move during the shootout?

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Anywho, did nobody else notice that Kuznetsov used Matt Hendricks' move during the shootout?

That was not the Paralyzer, was it?

 

[Langway]

Mike Green just scored his fifth goal. 44 defensemen have more goals than Washington's entire blueline have scored on goaltenders.