Confirmed with Link: Capitals to VA is dead. DC decides to pay $515 million dollars to upgrade capital one

NobodyBeatsTheWiz

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Jun 26, 2004
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Is there a way I can have the opinion that I don't want increased local traffic without being labelled a "whiner" or a "NIMBY?"

Is managing traffic volume off limits as something a person should want?
I've found "NIMBY" is generally used when someone doesn't want to bother with nuance. Don't want to build unlimited multi-unit housing with the sole purpose of depressing the real estate market -- traffic, school crowding, and infrastructure issues be damned? NIMBY.
 
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Hivemind

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Don't want to build unlimited multi-unit housing with the sole purpose of depressing the real estate market -- traffic, school crowding, and infrastructure issues be damned? NIMBY.
I mean, your example is literally a perfect example of being a NIMBY. Prioritizing your own real estate value over affordable housing is textbook NIMBY
 

CapitalsCupReality

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Feb 27, 2002
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Funny….the NIMBY tag offends, but is (at least somewhat) valid….

“Signifying opposition of something undesirable in one’s neighborhood”
 
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bacchist

lumpy, lumpy head
Feb 7, 2013
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I am no fan of Leonsis but the whining about moving the stadium to a further Metro stop is the brattiest and most obnoxious shit ever. I hope DC and MD never get another stadium. People and businesses are fleeing these places for Virginia for a reason.
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Hivemind

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Lol. Point proven perfectly. Ignore the nuance and focus on the single factor.
The "nuance" of you valuing your commute and your real estate value over housing. Can't let other kids into your school district because of that "nuance!"

If you want to make an argument against the arena based on how it will harm the surrounding area, absolutely go for it. That's a perfectly legitimate case to be made. Arenas aren't an essential facility like housing. But arguing against the whole concept of "NIMBYism" by citing real estate value reveals a whole lot about you personally.
 

Empty Goal Net

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What I am reading from Wiz and others - apologies if I'm not understanding - is that many use the "NIMBY" term to malign any and all opposition to any type of project or "development," and that such use does not allow for differences ("nuances") in the substance of the concerns voiced by affected citizens. The devil is in the details ... you want to put a 40-unit building for low-income tenants into an area with adequate roads and public transportation and schools that are not overcrowded ... go for it with a comprehensive plan. You want to put an 18000 (?) seat arena into an area with limited road access, water on one or two sides, and a much-too-small subway station? And your plan is based on imaginary revenue projections and lacks the necessary adjustments to transport options? AND you want local taxpayers to support a multimillionaire if that revenue doesn't come in? I'd be a NIMBY too.
 
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g00n

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So being against overdevelopment and overcrowding makes someone a NIMBY because...theoretical social crusading reasons, I guess?

How many people making these accusations are bringing homeless people into their own houses? I mean, you can still walk to the kitchen without tripping over someone, right? You clearly have room. How dare you ignore the needs of others. So selfish.

Letting other people experience the overcrowding because you guilt them for NIMBYism from your galloping high horse is just ironic NIMBYism.
 

Hivemind

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What I am reading from Wiz and others - apologies if I'm not understanding - is that many use the "NIMBY" term to malign any and all opposition to any type of project or "development," and that such use does not allow for differences ("nuances") in the substance of the concerns voiced by affected citizens. The devil is in the details ... you want to put a 40-unit building for low-income tenants into an area with adequate roads and public transportation and schools that are not overcrowded ... go for it with a comprehensive plan. You want to put an 18000 (?) seat arena into an area with limited road access, water on one or two sides, and a much-too-small subway station? And your plan is based on imaginary revenue projections and lacks the necessary adjustments to transport options? AND you want local taxpayers to support a multimillionaire if that revenue doesn't come in? I'd be a NIMBY too.

When it comes to development in a local area, there's a stark difference between opposing an arena plan (which provides minimal public good) and opposing other projects (such as housing, infrastructure, public utilities, public transportation, etc). Very few of the complaints opposing new arena construction fall into the "NIMBY" territory. However, NBTW wasn't simply rejecting the arena plan, NBTW was rejecting the whole concept of "NIMBY" to describe folks opposed to local development.

In this case, "nuances" are just reasons and rationale. Just because an individual has rationale for their stance doesn't mean that stance is above reproach, or that their reasons outweigh the benefits. It is absolutely justifiable to call someone out for their NIMBYism when they put concepts like "depressing the real estate market" and traffic as their concerns for opposing new housing development. There are even cartoonishly dumb NIMBY efforts, citing property value as opposition to wind farming simply because people don't want to look at turbines from their beach houses. Especially considering the cycle that NIMBYism creates. "You can't build more houses here - we lack the schools!" leads to "I don't want to pay taxes for more schools, we have enough for our current population!" (You can replace either houses or schools with roads, utility plants, public transportation, or any number of other things in that previous example.) The NIMBY forces prevent any further public good from coming to their area because they're happy with the status quo, and aren't willing to make adjustments or sacrifices to help others who would benefit from the projects. This ties into numerous other issues that would start to stray much further off topic, but if you're interested look up Environmental Justice, Redlining, and opposition to various energy projects (both "green" and "traditional").

There's valid reasons to oppose construction of the arena. But folks should stick to focusing on those reasons, rather than trying to reject well established concepts as being "unwilling to listen to nuance."
 
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usiel

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What I am reading from Wiz and others - apologies if I'm not understanding - is that many use the "NIMBY" term to malign any and all opposition to any type of project or "development," and that such use does not allow for differences ("nuances") in the substance of the concerns voiced by affected citizens. The devil is in the details ... you want to put a 40-unit building for low-income tenants into an area with adequate roads and public transportation and schools that are not overcrowded ... go for it with a comprehensive plan. You want to put an 18000 (?) seat arena into an area with limited road access, water on one or two sides, and a much-too-small subway station? And your plan is based on imaginary revenue projections and lacks the necessary adjustments to transport options? AND you want local taxpayers to support a multimillionaire if that revenue doesn't come in? I'd be a NIMBY too.
Even if the plan somehow makes it forward I would still want to see what a serious plan would be to address the in and out traffic of game days. No plan they have even released is set in stone this early.

I also still don't understand why Leonsis wasn't engaging with the state dem leadership months ago before they announced.
 

Midnight Judges

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Even if the plan somehow makes it forward I would still want to see what a serious plan would be to address the in and out traffic of game days. No plan they have even released is set in stone this early.

I also still don't understand why Leonsis wasn't engaging with the state dem leadership months ago before they announced.

Because the plan was to complete the deal in utter secrecy and then ram it through before anyone had a chance to scrutinize the details.

So they met with the bare minimum set of representatives thinking they had the votes. They only miscalculated by a tiny margin.
 

kicksavedave

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The next time someone raises their hand and says "I'd like more traffic in my neighborhood" will be the first time. The next time someone says "why yes, I'd like to have a prison, or a garbage dump, or a chemical factory, in my immediate vicinity" will be the first time. People have been looking out for their own self interests since the beginning of agriculture, maybe 12,000 years ago.

Getting the public to support important public projects which benefit the greater good, at their own potential expense, has always been very difficult. Getting the public to support a sports arena that benefits a tiny handful of individuals, none more so than a billionaire who doesn't need an ounce of anyone's assistance, is essentially impossible, without government corruption involved.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I understand why people are opposed to it. Who cares what name is attached to that sentiment? No one on the planet wants MORE TRAFFIC in their neighborhood. No one.
 

usiel

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Because the plan was to complete the deal in utter secrecy and then ram it through before anyone had a chance to scrutinize the details.

So they met with the bare minimum set of representatives thinking they had the votes. They only miscalculated by a tiny margin.
I find that too farcically stupid to be reality. I chalk it up more to Youngkin not being a good politician and Leonsis dealing with him businessman to businessman naivete. In the sense that the VA dems are going to need to be on board.
 
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Empty Goal Net

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I find that too farcically stupid to be reality. I chalk it up more to Youngkin not being a good politician and Leonsis dealing with him businessman to businessman naivete. In the sense that the VA dems are going to need to be on board.
The VA Gov thinks he can handle his current job the same he did with the hedge fund. An article in last Sunday's Post included unattributed reports that Leonsis did not meet with Chair Lucas on guidance from Yungkin's posse.
Although Youngkin regularly contacted Lucas with phone calls or through his staff on the arena and other matters, three people familiar with the situation said Leonsis delayed meeting with Lucas, in particular, because of guidance from the governor’s team.
Youngkin spokesman Rob Damschen called that account “completely false.”
 

Midnight Judges

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I find that too farcically stupid to be reality.

Then why was it so secret?

The Alexandria city council was meeting with monumental on a daily basis, for several Months, and there wasn't a peep about it leaked to the press.

The day it was announced, the Washington Post was saying it was practically a done deal.
 

usiel

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Then why was it so secret?

The Alexandria city council was meeting with monumental on a daily basis, for several Months, and there wasn't a peep about it leaked to the press.

The day it was announced, the Washington Post was saying it was practically a done deal.
PR would be my practical guess. And just because it didn't leak out didn't hinder the nimbys and other opponents from putting the entire deal on life support.

Youngkin is basically a lame duck governor. He only has his veto power that 'might' be able to salvage a deal.
 

CapitalsCupReality

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I find the idea of the whole “secret” angle to be somewhat cheap theatrics….just trying to add an air of something nefarious happening, when the reality is, lots of people probably knew about this, but as with most things big business, negotiations and planning are private until it’s time to go public.
 
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Empty Goal Net

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When public funds are involved, transparency requires sufficient time for public input. People like Leonsis and Yungkin can do all the planning and negotiating they want in secrecy, but this scheme involves a State's chief executive and a private businessman, so it's more than "most things business."
 
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g00n

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1710968027938.png


After a deal for a new $2 billion arena in Virginia stalled, Washington Wizards and Capitals owner Ted Leonsis reportedly is eyeing another state as a potential home for the two franchises.
Per Andy Kostka and Pamela Wood of the Baltimore Banner, an anonymous source said that "Maryland Gov. Wes Moore and Leonsis discussed the idea of bringing the NBA and NHL teams to Maryland after Virginia lawmakers left out plans for a new Wizards and Capitals arena from the state budget this month."

8UD1.gif
 

bacchist

lumpy, lumpy head
Feb 7, 2013
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So Virginia isn't putting it in their budget and DC says they're locked in for another 20 years?

This is dead, right?
 
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