C/RW Mitch Marner - London Knights, OHL (2015, 4th, TOR) V

[Kylie Sven Opossum]

I don't think anyone is "labelling him a pp specialist"...and to do so would be wrong - in the OHL, he's 4th in the league @ ES PrimP/GP & 3rd @ /E60...ignoring two players ahead of him who only played 2 games).

At WJC (a small sample size) he was not effective @ ES at all, and it's okay to make that observation - obviously, it should also be acknowledged that a tournament where a weak Canadian team lasted 5 games shouldn't be used to make evaluations of him as a prospect at this point or to make projections about him in the future.

I really don't think a lot of people are "in denial about his abilities"...loving a prospect but also discussing some of their weaker points (or weaker moments, even over a short period) doesn't make you a "hater".

Marner is a fantastic player and he's been awesome the last two seasons for the Knights (he also had a highly underrated rookie year for the team - he was incredibly productive for a U17 player by any measurement, and it was made all the more impressive by the fact he got the 'rookie treatment' from Hunter for a bunch of the season...started off in the bottom 6, and 4th line, and was still incredibly productive).

Sorry but using wjc to illustrate his weaker points is selling him short.

Wasn't referring specifically to you with the hater comment, but there are plenty in this thread who are. You don't have to take it personally.

PP specialist comments have come up before...

Glad we agree that he's fantastic tho.

 

[Bravid Nonahan]

I think we can all agree that Marner didn't play as well as he could have at the WJC. Yet he still was tied for the lead in scoring for Team Canada, and was the best player in their most important game.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

Sorry but using wjc to illustrate his weaker points is selling him short.

Wasn't referring specifically to you with the hater comment, but there are plenty in this thread who are. You don't have to take it personally.

PP specialist comments have come up before...

Glad we agree that he's fantastic tho.

WJC is what it is...I agree that you can't take too much out of it...but I suspect if Canada won gold, Marner dominated and was the tournament MVP it would be seen as very insightful. That isn't a shot against Marner...it's just the reality...and you see it all the time on HF when players do well at the tournament.

Re PP specialist - I guess we won't know until we see how he does in the NHL. In the OHL he's dominant in every situation. OHL isn't NHL, but it's the league Marner is playing in so the viewing sample we have for him.

In any event, re pro - Marner's skill isn't at issue. It's the other aspects of his game (strength, skating) that will dictate when he is NHL ready and how he does when he gets there...but there's no way of knowing until Leafs camp in September (and he'll have a summer of training put in before he gets there).

 

[7even]

Regarding the game against Finland and Marner's play in this game. If you read the GDT, he was not having what we would term as a good game until he scored the 2 PP goals in the 3rd.

Say what one wants about Marner, I will give him credit on the PP. It has always been a strength of his game as it is with London.

This is why I see a lot of Daniel Briere in his game.

But to the main point of his game against Finland. Where he did take one too many long shifts, and he overhandled the puck at times. It was a game of good and bad all into one and given the expectations placed on him, maybe he was underwhelming this tournament compared to other players.

But overall I thought he had a decent/good final game because he did score 2 goals on the PP when it mattered.

Insinuating the PP is the most notable part of his game when he's one of the top-producing even strength players in the OHL? You're out to lunch bud. As usual.

 

[blueberrie]

I really don't think a lot of people are "in denial about his abilities"...loving a prospect but also discussing some of their weaker points (or weaker moments, even over a short period) doesn't make you a "hater".

Refusing to let go of a WJC performance for a single player who's not affiliated to your team, two months after the fact seems kinda like a hater to me.

 

[Kelly]

Refusing to let go of a WJC performance for a single player who's not affiliated to your team, two months after the fact seems kinda like a hater to me.

That and his size are the only things they can really find to criticize Marner on, so that's why it's discussed to a tee.

Guarantee next year if he's in the NHL and playing well you'll still read posters bringing up "that one world jr where he wasn't our best player in the preliminary games"...

 

[LeafsNation75]

 

[RoyalCitySlicker]

Refusing to let go of a WJC performance for a single player who's not affiliated to your team, two months after the fact seems kinda like a hater to me.

You're aware you're talking to a huge London Knights fan, correct?

Just take a gander at the Knights OHL board.

 

[Brewsky]

Marner's performance in that 3rd period shows me just how good he can be. He took his play to the next level and literally put the team on his back.

Literally?

 

[blueberrie]

You're aware you're talking to a huge London Knights fan, correct?

Just take a gander at the Knights OHL board.

I'm not aware. I was referring to NHL affiliation. I find it a little strange for a Knights fan to be obsessing over a 5 game sample that happened two months ago. Especially when Marner has 27 P over his last 11 GP and the Knights are headed to the playoffs in 9 games..

But to each their own I guess.

 

[snizzbone*]

Literally?

He literally figuratively put the team on his back.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

I'm not aware. I was referring to NHL affiliation. I find it a little strange for a Knights fan to be obsessing over a 5 game sample that happened two months ago. Especially when Marner has 27 P over his last 11 GP and the Knights are headed to the playoffs in 9 games..

But to each their own I guess.

Um, actually, someone else said that they'd seen Marner and Strome at WJC and thought Strome was the better prospect. I responded that although I thought Strome had been better at WJC, I thought Marner was the better prospect. Then some Leafs fan responded to me asking why I thought Strome had been better at WJC. I responded and it went on from there.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Insinuating the PP is the most notable part of his game when he's one of the top-producing even strength players in the OHL? You're out to lunch bud. As usual.

Not sure how one would come to a conclusion as the one you came to by reading my post.

I gave credit to a player for being very good on the PP. Even if you are a casual fan of the London Knights one would know Marner quarterbacks one the Junior hockey's most prolific PP units.

Further as stated I gave him credit for producing in the 3rd period of that game. His strength was on the PP this tournament. 3G 1A 4 of his 6 points came on the PP.

 

[Space Coyote]

Congrats to Marner for his back to back 100th point season.

 

[TheLeastOfTheBunch]

He's one of the most prolific scorers at ES in the OHL, and yes, he produced very well on the PP at the WJCs. Could he have done more in that tourney? Sure, but, at the end of the day, it's a very short 5-7 game tournament that groups together random players from across the country for a few weeks. Him and Strome played together for most of the time and I thought that was one of the biggest mistakes for the Canadian coaches, it became obvious that they didn't mesh as well as they did at the U17s a year or two back.

Moving on, Leafs will have a number of spots open in their lineup for next season, and I think we will see Marner cracking Toronto's roster and playing regularly under Babcock. Needs more development, especially in terms of adding muscle, but he's said he will be working with Gary Roberts over the summer.

 

[Kylie Sven Opossum]

You're aware you're talking to a huge London Knights fan, correct?

Just take a gander at the Knights OHL board.

Not sure this is relevant. I mean, you are aware you're talking to a huge Leafs fan, correct?

See what I mean?

 

[Knies iT]

You're aware you're talking to a huge London Knights fan, correct?

Just take a gander at the Knights OHL board.

Yes, but he's also vocally negative when it comes to the Leafs.

 

[7even]

Not sure how one would come to a conclusion as the one you came to by reading my post.

I gave credit to a player for being very good on the PP. Even if you are a casual fan of the London Knights one would know Marner quarterbacks one the Junior hockey's most prolific PP units.

Further as stated I gave him credit for producing in the 3rd period of that game. His strength was on the PP this tournament. 3G 1A 4 of his 6 points came on the PP.

You don't have to be Kip Thorne to see that "I'll give Mitch credit where it's due, he's a good powerplay player" is a tacit discredit of his even strength play.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

You don't have to be Kip Thorne to see that "I'll give Mitch credit where it's due, he's a good powerplay player" is a tacit discredit of his even strength play.

Some see life through a 'glass half empty', while others view life from a 'glass half full'.

 

[SprDaVE]

Isn't Marner one of the best 5 on 5 producers in the entire OHL? Why are people mentioning his only asset is a PP specialist?

Good lord...

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

Isn't Marner one of the best 5 on 5 producers in the entire OHL? Why are people mentioning his only asset is a PP specialist?

Good lord...

Yes...he is second in the league for primary points/game @ even strength. Only Kevin Labanc, who turned 20 in December, is ahead of him at that metric.

 

[RoyalCitySlicker]

Refusing to let go of a WJC performance for a single player who's not affiliated to your team, two months after the fact seems kinda like a hater to me.

Not sure this is relevant. I mean, you are aware you're talking to a huge Leafs fan, correct?

See what I mean?

See the highlighted part about team affiliation? I was merely pointing out that as far as affiliations go, the poster is actually a fan of the team Marner plays for. So, he's not "hating" because Marner is property of a team other than the Hawks. I was just posting some background info....OK with you?

Also, I don't get why anyone who critiques Marner's game is labelled a hater. Newsflash, no player is perfect. Marner is no exception. He is a prospect with tremendous upside, but has some flaws in his overall game that need to be ironed out. With the way Mitch's development curve has gone so far, there is no reason to believe those kinks won't be ironed out. Yet, that's pretty much what UsernameWasTaken said (albeit with more facts to back up the opinion) and yet he/she is labelled a hater.

Oh well, I guess I am a hater too since I don't have Mitch already penciled into the Leafs top 6 next year.

 

[Kylie Sven Opossum]

See the highlighted part about team affiliation? I was merely pointing out that as far as affiliations go, the poster is actually a fan of the team Marner plays for. So, he's not "hating" because Marner is property of a team other than the Hawks. I was just posting some background info....OK with you?

Also, I don't get why anyone who critiques Marner's game is labelled a hater. Newsflash, no player is perfect. Marner is no exception. He is a prospect with tremendous upside, but has some flaws in his overall game that need to be ironed out. With the way Mitch's development curve has gone so far, there is no reason to believe those kinks won't be ironed out. Yet, that's pretty much what UsernameWasTaken said (albeit with more facts to back up the opinion) and yet he/she is labelled a hater.

Oh well, I guess I am a hater too since I don't have Mitch already penciled into the Leafs top 6 next year.

Not true. This shoe fits others; including a so-called "fan" of the maple leafs. Look around...

As far as Marner is concerned, I think the fact that his 5 on 5 play is even questioned is a problem because his stats are very good in this regard. Not meeting expectations at the wjc doesn't really negate this. Statistically, he is an excellent player 5 on 5, on the power play, and even on the kill. All one has to do is watch him play; he's extremely skilled and talented.

His game doesn't top out as a pp specialist. Yeah?

Also, if you're a hater, it certainly isn't because Marner isn't already pencilled into the leafs top six...

 

[RoyalCitySlicker]

Not true. This shoe fits others; including a so-called "fan" of the maple leafs. Look around...

As far as Marner is concerned, I think the fact that his 5 on 5 play is even questioned is a problem because his stats are very good in this regard. Not meeting expectations at the wjc doesn't really negate this. Statistically, he is an excellent player 5 on 5, on the power play, and even on the kill. All one has to do is watch him play; he's extremely skilled and talented.

His game doesn't top out as a pp specialist. Yeah?

Also, if you're a hater, it certainly isn't because Marner isn't already pencilled into the leafs top six...

Listen, I have no idea what you're on about.

I looked back at the posts, and UWT was pretty glowing in the assessment of Marner on the whole. Yes, the WJC was brought up but I don't see the problem in that. I don't think it was highlighted and more or less than necessary. As was mentioned, had he been the star of a gold medal winning Canadian team, his WJC performance would have more merit with Leafs fans than it does with him being on a 5th place Canadian team. It is what it is, fans are fans.

But it leads me to the point that too many people get caught up in believing that certain prospects can do no wrong. Again, look back...the WJC was mentioned as somewhere he was less than amazing....it was inside a post that went on to say how great MM is 5v5, and just in general....citing Dale Hunter's use of him as a rookie and still putting up giant numbers. The poster (mozz) then took the one point about the WJC and accused UWT of being biased due to team affiliation, yet made no mention of all the other posts UWT praised Marner.

All I did was point out that team affiliation in this case has nothing to do with it. That's it. If posters can't understand that prospects aren't perfect and that there will be some criticism along the way, they are in for a painful existence on these boards.

Anyway, I don't even remember what I am arguing with you about. I think Mitch has a wonderful future ahead of him, but he's by no means above criticism....the sooner people don't take that as a personal insult, the sooner there will be some constructive discussion about Maple Leafs prospects.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

Not true. This shoe fits others; including a so-called "fan" of the maple leafs. Look around...

As far as Marner is concerned, I think the fact that his 5 on 5 play is even questioned is a problem because his stats are very good in this regard. Not meeting expectations at the wjc doesn't really negate this. Statistically, he is an excellent player 5 on 5, on the power play, and even on the kill. All one has to do is watch him play; he's extremely skilled and talented.

His game doesn't top out as a pp specialist. Yeah?

Also, if you're a hater, it certainly isn't because Marner isn't already pencilled into the leafs top six...

He's not a Leaf fan but he is a fan of the Knights and Marner. He wasn't the one questioning his 5 on 5 play, so your complaints about that poster look pretty out to lunch. You are overreacting to nothing basically.