C/RW Mitch Marner - London Knights, OHL (2015, 4th, TOR) V

[Semantics]

Seemed mostly due to the usual post WJC slump and not having linemates converting, Dvorak has a great understanding of where to be to capitalize on the chances Marner creates. Marner seems to be a guy where it take a little bit of time to adapt to playing with. Players also don't put in alot of bulking up/gym time during the year, the season is too grinding, especially with the minutes he gets. Now, a July and August with Gary Roberts will help in this regard.

This is not true in Marner's case, as he's already drafted. Getting stronger is his top priority this season, moreso than his individual performance in regular season games that don't mean so much. Here's a quote from Mark Hunter from this January:

He’ll need to get stronger, Hunter says, but “that’s what he works on every day. He’s been lifting a lot of weights and getting stronger and that’s what all young men have to do. He’s been doing a good job of it. He’s definitely gotten stronger. He lifts a lot more from the start of the year to now.

Imagine how beastly he will be if he comes to camp next year as beefy as Nylander this year... not that I think that will happen though, as Nylander seems to be a physical freak with how much muscle he put on so quickly. But Mitch already definitely looks a bit bigger than when he was drafted.

Also the score sheet I saw had only two helpers.

I only saw the highlights, but people were saying he should have been credited with another assist and assuming the OHL would fix it... but so far it seems they haven't.

 

[613Leafer]

It will be interesting to see how it works out. Babcock seems like the type of HC to put up really high expectations/level of standard for the young guys coming in, vs the vets on the team.

To be fair, Detroit always drafted in the late 1st or straight up didn't have a 1st rounder through Babcock's entire tenure there.

So while teenagers didn't make his team and generally needed AHL seasoning.. So do the vast majority of late 1st rounders.

Marner is the first teenage prospect of even close to this calibre that Babcock has ever had to make a decision on.

 

[TheLeastOfTheBunch]

To be fair, Detroit always drafted in the late 1st or straight up didn't have a 1st rounder through Babcock's entire tenure there.

So while teenagers didn't make his team and generally needed AHL seasoning.. So do the vast majority of late 1st rounders.

Marner is the first teenage prospect of even close to this calibre that Babcock has ever had to make a decision on.

That's a good point, Leafer. Leafs will most likely bring in UFAs on 1-2 year deals/reclamation projects/PTOs again for next season, so there will be big openings for these young guys coming up.

FWIW, I'm expecting both Nylander and Marner to be full time players for the Leafs next season, as well as Auston Matthews.

 

[Stephen]

He doesn't look physically transformed yet.

 

[93LEAFS]

This is not true in Marner's case, as he's already drafted. Getting stronger is his top priority this season, moreso than his individual performance in regular season games that don't mean so much. Here's a quote from Mark Hunter from this January:

He’ll need to get stronger, Hunter says, but “that’s what he works on every day. He’s been lifting a lot of weights and getting stronger and that’s what all young men have to do. He’s been doing a good job of it. He’s definitely gotten stronger. He lifts a lot more from the start of the year to now.

Imagine how beastly he will be if he comes to camp next year as beefy as Nylander this year... not that I think that will happen though, as Nylander seems to be a physical freak with how much muscle he put on so quickly. But Mitch already definitely looks a bit bigger than when he was drafted.



I only saw the highlights, but people were saying he should have been credited with another assist and assuming the OHL would fix it... but so far it seems they haven't.

The schedule is too grinding to add significant bulk mid-season, by next camp he'll have two offseasons of bulking up. He may be preparing himself to add bulk in the offseason, but no one adds significant size in Jr, it may happen in the NCAA because of a reduced schedule. Plus, he needs to be cautious on how he adds strength, his elusiveness and quick twitch muscles are a major part of his game.

 

[Unbiased]

He doesn't look physically transformed yet.

Don't expect much during the season. If theyre working on him right now its getting his legs stronger and then they'll work upperbody when he isn't playing.

 

[Semantics]

The schedule is too grinding to add significant bulk mid-season, by next camp he'll have two offseasons of bulking up. He may be preparing himself to add bulk in the offseason, but no one adds significant size in Jr, it may happen in the NCAA because of a reduced schedule. Plus, he needs to be cautious on how he adds strength, his elusiveness and quick twitch muscles are a major part of his game.

Well that's exactly what he's doing. And no player trains to "bulk up", that mentality is a relic from the 90s and early 00s, because you're right any muscle added should be functional. So they train to get stronger. I couldn't care less if Marner weighs 120 lbs if he can squat 500 lbs. And the fact is, Marner has been training a LOT during the season, and gotten MUCH stronger. And the amount of time spent in the gym absolutely affects his play on the ice.

 

[7even]

He doesn't look physically transformed yet.

Have to level him up to 36 before he evolves.

 

[animalanimal]

here's a list of primary points per game for the ohl. marner has a decent lead. his primary assists vs. secondary assists is certainly positive.

 

[Raging Bull]

Kid is a monster. He has Patrick Kane type skill, can not wait to see him in the NHL.

 

[1Gold Standard]

He can be criticized for not meeting expectations. Although even with that, a more competent coaching staff would have saved him from himself (who else but Spott Jr. would have allowed a player to take 2 minute shifts at a competition of that nature?).

No doubt it was Spott level ineptitude coaching. And from an Assistant on the 2015 gold medal winning staff who saw 1st hand how it should be done. So, the only logical explanation is that he, along with Hockey Canada, did it on purpose. but that doesn't change the fact that much of the criticism directed at some of the key players was warranted, Marner included. And the vast vast majority of the harshest criticism was directed towards Virtanen and not Marner. HF criticism is not to be taken seriously, just like the other 99% of the gobbledygook that fills this forum on a daily basis. If you find a hockey fan on this site who has half a clue, then let me know.

 

[Kadri43*]

Well that's exactly what he's doing. And no player trains to "bulk up", that mentality is a relic from the 90s and early 00s, because you're right any muscle added should be functional. So they train to get stronger. I couldn't care less if Marner weighs 120 lbs if he can squat 500 lbs. And the fact is, Marner has been training a LOT during the season, and gotten MUCH stronger. And the amount of time spent in the gym absolutely affects his play on the ice.

Finally someone who actually knows what he is talking about.

I used to hang a lot with a guy who was the lead varsity strength and conditioning coach for basketball, football and hockey. So this guy had to know what he was talking about. He basically said that for hockey its all about lower body strength and upper body is not really important. People judge to see how strong someone is by looking at the upper body but its all glutes, legs lower back and abdomens. He could care less about how strong your arms were. As you said, everything is functional strength and being able to squat a lot is what it is all about. You should see how they squatted too. Box squat (you literally sit down for a split second at parallel on a bench) with weight and resistant bands and then explode up in a split second. This type of training is not about bulking up on 8-12 reps for arm curls or triceps presses. Bulking up will only occur as a consequence of purely 100% functional strength exercises that hardly ever include upper body.

 

[hbk]

Is a common problem though with players after their first season. They are told to get stronger and proceed to add upper body mass which makes them ineffective. Peter Mueller when he was with the Coyotes made this mistake and found that his speed/skating was impacted.

 

[hawksrule]

A bit surprised that the last Marner thread was closed without a new thread started...so i took the initiative.

Marner has had a great season as co-captain for the Knights. Also did well at WJC and didn't deserve a lot of the criticism levied at him.

Discuss...

Eh, I saw a few of Team Canada's games in the wjc, and Marner was pretty underwhelming, to put it nicely. I think Strome looked like the better prospect.

 

[7even]

Is a common problem though with players after their first season. They are told to get stronger and proceed to add upper body mass which makes them ineffective. Peter Mueller when he was with the Coyotes made this mistake and found that his speed/skating was impacted.

And boy has Marner been ineffective this season

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

Eh, I saw a few of Team Canada's games in the wjc, and Marner was pretty underwhelming, to put it nicely. I think Strome looked like the better prospect.

I don't think Stome's the better prospect, but he certainly played better at WJC. "Underwhelming" is a good word to describe how Marner played. But some people were really ripping on him like he'd been terrible and I don't think he had been.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Have to level him up to 36 before he evolves.

A+ reference.

 

[Maplebeasts]

I don't think Stome's the better prospect, but he certainly played better at WJC. "Underwhelming" is a good word to describe how Marner played. But some people were really ripping on him like he'd been terrible and I don't think he had been.

Sorry what made him better? They tied in scoring, Marner was one of the better players defensively for Team Canada, and he was much better against Finland, when it actually mattered.

 

[hawksrule]

I don't think Stome's the better prospect, but he certainly played better at WJC. "Underwhelming" is a good word to describe how Marner played. But some people were really ripping on him like he'd been terrible and I don't think he had been.

In the games I saw, the game against team USA in particular, he was pretty terrible, imo. Bigger picture, we'll see if it's telling that when facing higher caliber competition, he didn't live up anywhere near the hype.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

Sorry what made him better? They tied in scoring, Marner was one of the better players defensively for Team Canada, and he was much better against Finland, when it actually mattered.

Marner was invisible 5v5 against every team except Denmark (a problem compounded by his ridiculously long shifts), was not any sort of standout at tournament defensively, and also took a terrible penalty at the end of the Canada/Finland game at the worst possible time...when it actually mattered.

In the games I saw, the game against team USA in particular, he was pretty terrible, imo. Bigger picture, we'll see if it's telling that when facing higher caliber competition, he didn't live up anywhere near the hype.

Yes, you would expect him to have been more of a standout at a tournament like that than he was.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Marner was invisible 5v5 against every team except Denmark (a problem compounded by his ridiculously long shifts), was not any sort of standout at tournament defensively, and also took a terrible penalty at the end of the Canada/Finland game at the worst possible time...when it actually mattered.

Without his 2 goals and ridiculous third period, that game would not have been close. Not a standout defensively? What are you talking about? He back checked consistently and gave an effort, unlike most of the forwards on the team. As someone who watched the games, golden boys Strome and Barzal were also invisible for large stretches in the tournament, created equal (Strome) or less (Barzal) offence, and were not good in the knock out game. Why does Marner deserve more hate than them?

 

[Maplebeasts]

Yes, you would expect him to have been more of a standout at a tournament like that than he was.

This is true for pretty much every player on the roster.

 

[Liminality]

In the games I saw, the game against team USA in particular, he was pretty terrible, imo. Bigger picture, we'll see if it's telling that when facing higher caliber competition, he didn't live up anywhere near the hype.

I think there's a huge difference between being terrible and not living up to the hype. It sounds like some people are mixing the two together and making it sound he was worse than he actually was. He had his bad games and good games during the tournament, needed consistency more than anything but he imo was still one of Canada's best players throughout the event.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

Without his 2 goals and ridiculous third period, that game would not have been close. Not a standout defensively? What are you talking about? He back checked consistently and gave an effort, unlike most of the forwards on the team. As someone who watched the games, golden boys Strome and Barzal were also invisible for large stretches in the tournament, created equal (Strome) or less (Barzal) offence, and were not good in the knock out game. Why does Marner deserve more hate than them?

Yes, he had a strong third period which ended on a bad note with the penalty. I note that Strome also scored that game.

Strome was not invisible at ES the way Marner was and I never said Marner was outplayed by Barzal, so I really don't know what you're on about.

I simply said that I thought Strome had a better tournament than Marner. In fact, I expect most people who aren't Leafs fans would agree with me (and I suspect that even some Leafs fans would agree, as well).

 

[Maplebeasts]

Yes, he had a strong third period which ended on a bad note with the penalty. I note that Strome also scored that game.

Strome was not invisible at ES the way Marner was and I never said Marner was outplayed by Barzal, so I really don't know what you're on about.

I simply said that I thought Strome had a better tournament than Marner. In fact, I expect most people who aren't Leafs fans would agree with me (and I suspect that even some Leafs fans would agree, as well).

To each their own. I felt that Marner had his warts (long shifts, sometimes wasn't as big of a factor as I was hoping), but all in all I felt he was usually one of our most dangerous forwards. You disagreeing is totally fine.