Confirmed with Link: Burakovsky to Colorado for COL 2nd and ARIZ 3rd (both 2020) and Scott Kosmachuk

[Fallschirmyager]

I'm guessing Bura better know when Wilson is arriving in the corners or his season could be rather short.

 

[Silky mitts]

The "why was it so urgent" was rhetorical. I fully understand the history of the contracts and cap situation at the time. I posted on this subject at the time as well.

The point I was making is that GMBM sacrificed his trade leverage in the Johansson deal by painting himself into a salary cap corner, and that getting an almost identical return for a lesser player highlights that.

GMBM held weaker positions Varlamov, Grubauer, Orpik, and Burakovsky in that they had to move those specific guys and got great returns, with Mojo they needed cap space and he was the best choice but they could have made a different move or played hardball with Kuzy or let Oshie go. So when you or anyone declares an immediate trade winner when you have all the subsequent information you've introduced bias. It's like with the Wilson deal the hockey media thought it was a joke but a year later it's a great deal, so what was the upside of Yahoo or ESPN mocking it?

 

[Calicaps]

This is ridiculous, though. You have no idea that Kempny is going to be available for trade for a 3rd rounder at the time of the Johansson trade. Heck, they don't even know where in the 2012 1st round that Colorado's pick is going to fall at the time of the Varlamov trade (June 2011), let alone that Filip Forsberg would slide to them at 11.

Trades are evaluated with the information you have in the present. Using hindsight about future usage of assets is not a good way to evaluate them. Using hindsight to grade professional scouting is fine to an extent (barring things like unsuspected injuries), since its the scout's job to assess what players will do in the future. But it's nobody's job to be a telepath and determine what a draft pick is going to be traded for in 9 months time.

Agree to disagree. I think a pick in a vacuum is just a number. It's what you do with it that matters. Not knowing that Kempny would be available is irrelevant. Either they trade the pick for someone else or they use it at the draft and those players become the return on the original trade.

 

[searle]

I'm guessing Bura better know when Wilson is arriving in the corners or his season could be rather short.

*Both their seasons could be very short

 

[g00n]

gmbm is a wizard

 

[Silky mitts]

Agree to disagree. I think a pick in a vacuum is just a number. It's what you do with it that matters. Not knowing that Kempny would be available is irrelevant. Either they trade the pick for someone else or they use it at the draft and those players become the return on the original trade.

If you count the picks you’ve got to count how the players and team does, so like Dale Hunter for a 1st is fine, for Sakic is awful, but then Quebec is so bad they remove hockey from the province and the Caps immediately win their 1st series and make the playoffs every year with Hunter so who won it?

 

[Hivemind]

Agree to disagree. I think a pick in a vacuum is just a number. It's what you do with it that matters. Not knowing that Kempny would be available is irrelevant. Either they trade the pick for someone else or they use it at the draft and those players become the return on the original trade.

So you think trading a 4th round pick for Milan Jurcina was one of the worst trades in Capitals history, because that pick eventually was used to pick TJ Brodie?


edit; Great point by @Silky mitts Completely forgot the 1st traded for Hunter turned into Sakic

 

[Calicaps]

If you count the picks you’ve got to count how the players and team does, so like Dale Hunter for a 1st is fine, for Sakic is awful, but then Quebec is so bad they remove hockey from the province and the Caps immediately win their 1st series and make the playoffs every year with Hunter so who won it?

I can't even follow this.

So you think trading a 4th round pick for Milan Jurcina was one of the worst trades in Capitals history, because that pick eventually was used to pick TJ Brodie?


edit; Great point by @Silky mitts Completely forgot the 1st traded for Hunter turned into Sakic

Jurcina for Broadie isn't something to be proud of IMO. But I also guess you don't know what agree to disagree means.

 

[Hivemind]

Jurcina for Broadie isn't something to be proud of IMO. But I also guess you don't know what agree to disagree means.

I do, but it also doesn’t force me to drop the topic.

It was Milan Jurcina for a conditional 4th round pick. The pick just happened to work out for Calgary. The vast majority of them don't. To illustrate this point further, if Jurcina had averaged 20mins for the Caps, it would have been a 3rd round pick. That 3rd round pick would have been Jacob DeSerres (a goalie who never made he NHL). Are you saying giving up a 3rd round pick is better than giving up a 4th round pick?

 

[895]

We just got more for Burakovsky than Mcphee did for Colin Miller.

 

[Calicaps]

I do, but it also doesn’t force me to drop the topic.

It was Milan Jurcina for a conditional 4th round pick. The pick just happened to work out for Calgary. To illustrate this point further, if Jurcina had averaged 20mins for the Caps, it would have been a 3rd round pick. That 3rd round pick would have been Jacob DeSerres (a goalie who never made he NHL). Are you saying giving up a 3rd round pick is better than giving up a 4th round pick?

I'm saying I'm totally confused by all of these hypothetical scenarios and just don't care enough to try and figure it out.

 

[895]

. But I also guess you don't know what agree to disagree means.

He didn't agree to agree to disagree.

 

[shtorm2005]

What did you expect to happen during a cap crunch? The only question was who the Caps would lose, not whether it was gonna happen...

That sucks. After losing to Canes because of lack of secondary scoring, I expected they will search more offense, but now it's getting worst since core players need to bring more while getting older.

 

[g00n]

Good that they made the move now. As discussed previously it's a catch 22 the longer the season goes on regarding trade value vs value to the team.

I think some are still pissed about Mojo, otherwise there's no reason whatsoever to be arguing about the value here.

 

[Silky mitts]

I can't even follow this.


Jurcina for Broadie isn't something to be proud of IMO. But I also guess you don't know what agree to disagree means.

Quebec made a lopsided deal trading Dale Hunter for the pick that was Sakic but with him they were the worst team in sports, so it’s impossible to say they won the trade. For that reason evaluating a trade purely by what is known at the time + knowing what happens with the picks is worst than
Evaluating based on just what is known at the time or
Evaluating based purely on the trades impact on team performance

 

[artilector]

That sucks. After losing to Canes because of lack of secondary scoring, I expected they will search more offense, but now it's getting worst since core players need to bring more while getting older.

Yes, but still there's a great reason to be happy -- we got a Cup out of it! Countless teams go through the same thing without winning anything.

And the Caps still have some bullets left -- picks, about 500 LD prospects, and a couple more big salaries they could shed if they decide to press the red button.

 

[Calicaps]

Quebec made a lopsided deal trading Dale Hunter for the pick that was Sakic but with him they were the worst team in sports, so it’s impossible to say they won the trade. For that reason evaluating a trade purely by what is known at the time + knowing what happens with the picks is worst than
Evaluating based on just what is known at the time or
Evaluating based purely on the trades impact on team performance

Hunter for Sakic was a win for the Nordiques. Quebec just sucked at being a hockey organization.

 

[txpd]

That sucks. After losing to Canes because of lack of secondary scoring, I expected they will search more offense, but now it's getting worst since core players need to bring more while getting older.

They lost because Vrana had zero points and Kuzy was coasting. Secondary scoring would have been nice but A well timed goal from Vrana, just one, and they win

 

[Hank Chinaski]

The UFA they got has pretty meh AHL numbers. I hope they don’t sign him and send him to Hershey to take a veteran spot

Watched and followed Kosmachuk a fair bit while he was a Jets prospect. Mainly a grinder, but he actually has a bit of speed and skill.

I doubt he carves out an NHL career, but there’s still a bit of upside. At minimum, you could do a lot worse than him as an injury fill-in and solid AHL player.

 

[artilector]

They lost because Vrana had zero points and Kuzy was coasting. Secondary scoring would have been nice but A well timed goal from Vrana, just one, and they win

One well-timed save from Holtby, no? Or does that run afoul of the party line?

Or how about the loss of Kempny and Oshie, any effects? Or Carlson and Niskanen having trouble keeping up? Nah, couldn't be.

 

[Langway]

That sucks. After losing to Canes because of lack of secondary scoring, I expected they will search more offense, but now it's getting worst since core players need to bring more while getting older.

Kind of have to wait to judge the overall blend for next season for another week or so until free agency comes and goes. You've got to expect they'll sign at least one scoring-line winger and then perhaps more depth forwards on the cheap to at least compete with what they've got on the fourth line.

They needed to shake up the mix IMO and particularly in light of Burakovsky wanting to move on it made all kinds of sense to move him. The value they got back made it a no-brainer. Now they've got assets either for the trade deadline or maybe to be players in the trade market should a capped out team need to move someone. Even after the Miller deal, Gusev comes to mind as someone that may not be affordable there. That seems like a really solid gamble unless Vegas happens to move Reaves or Eakin instead. The options in UFA aren't amazing. Connolly & Chiasson may be the only 20 goal scorers in their price range. It seems to me the main strategy should be upgrading the fourth-line on the cheap with a couple of ~$800k types that if they don't work out could be waived with no problem. If they can hit on something more functional and consistent that would help further improve them. Boyd did produce pretty well in a depth role but I don't know that I'd trust his game all-around. It will be hard to replace ~35 goals no matter what but there are very likely to be better bets than Burakovsky anyway and that's what this deal amounts to. Now it's mostly on the pro scouts to have a couple of hits again.

 

[Portable Mink]

Hearing he requested a trade makes me feel ok about it. Read a fair bit of the last 10 pages and there is a lot of dated viewpoints of what kind of player Burky is right now.

The return is nice so I’ll definitely take it. Don’t be surprised if he breaks out hard this coming season. For Burky to request a trade I think that says a lot about how his mental game has developed.

Thanks for the memories mate!!!
Please do NOT sign MOJO.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

As the original conductor on the Trade Bura train I have to admit that I hate this. His skill set is gnarly. I am super bummed to see him go and think he will pot 25-30 for Colorado this year. I hope BMac already has someone in mind to replace him.

 

[Corby78]

Very excited to see this. Not that bura didn’t work out, his skill set was never achieved and if it had as a cap that would have been the best scenario. But considering I was ready to walk away, getting two picks is awesome. Now we can replace him for less and hopefully sign cono some how

 

[Ridley Simon]

Not correct. You're adding another step in the story. The return for Varly was Forsberg just as the return for Mojo was Kemps and Fehervary. The pick is only as good as what it's used for.

Boom!!! What she said