Confirmed with Link: Burakovsky to Colorado for COL 2nd and ARIZ 3rd (both 2020) and Scott Kosmachuk

[txpd]

I wonder who slots in at 3RW now. I guess Connolly is still possible if he takes a discount but I assume GMBM has his eye on someone else at this point.

Better return than expected.

Somebody not on the team yet

 

[BiPolar Caps]

Bunch of disjointed thoughts on this:

Both of Wilson's roommates are now gone (Burakovsky and Latta)

Caps trade with Colorado a lot, under both GMGM and GMBM (and various GMs on their side). Up with with St. Louis as one of the better trade relationships the Caps have

Kinda highlights how underwhelming the return for Johansson was. GMBM painted himself into a corner with that one. Even with an apparent cap crunch here, GMBM was able to get a nearly identical return for a less proven player with similar amounts of team control.

Hopefully this means GMBM has had productive discussions with a potential 3RW during the interview period. Donskoi? Williams? Pominville?

But it's what BMAC has done with those 2nd and 3rd round returns for MOJO. The 3rd was used to acquire Kempny from Chicago, while the 2nd was used to draft Martin Fehevary. Not a bad return after all for MOJO.

 

[Firsov99]

Fantastic trade value. I am very surprised that we got so much for Bura.

 

[artilector]

Pretty nice return given the circumstances, major work ahead to rebuild offensive depth/talent.

This one could definitely still come back to bite the Caps in the ass, so a bit easier to stomach if Bura indeed requested a trade. Best of luck to him!

 

[Hivemind]

But it's what BMAC has done with those 2nd and 3rd round returns for MOJO. The 3rd was used to acquire Kempny from Chicago, while the 2nd was used to draft Martin Fehevary. Not a bad return after all for MOJO.

That would be equivalent to de-valuing the 1st round pick (11th overall - Filip Forsberg) that the Caps got for Varlamov, because it was later traded for Martin Erat.

The return for a trade should be evaluated for what it was, not what it would later become.

Also, let's keep the Fehevary hype in check until he plays in the NHL.

 

[BiPolar Caps]

Capitals in recent unchartered waters at the moment with 7 draft picks in 2020, 4 in the first three rounds. Emphasis is of course on "at the moment".

 

[aonb]

i uh whatttt?

Of course it was an exaggeration but incl playoffs - 1 goal in last 46 gp

 

[Calicaps]

That would be equivalent to de-valuing the 1st round pick (11th overall - Filip Forsberg) that the Caps got for Varlamov, because it was later traded for Martin Erat.

The return for a trade should be evaluated for what it was, not what it would later become.

Also, let's keep the Fehevary hype in check until he plays in the NHL.

Not correct. You're adding another step in the story. The return for Varly was Forsberg just as the return for Mojo was Kemps and Fehervary. The pick is only as good as what it's used for.

 

[Sam Spade]

Pretty nice return given the circumstances, major work ahead to rebuild offensive depth/talent.

This one could definitely still come back to bite the Caps in the ass, so a bit easier to stomach if Bura indeed requested a trade. Best of luck to him!

How, if they play the Avs in a Final?

 

[searle]

GMBM does it again.

Genuinely flabbergasted, double what I thought he'd get for him (at that salary was thinking he'd almost be a negative asset)

Shame things never panned out here, but there's a lot of talent in COL that could bring out the best in him.

All the best Bura

 

[Hivemind]

Not correct. You're adding another step in the story. The return for Varly was Forsberg just as the return for Mojo was Kemps and Fehervary. The pick is only as good as what it's used for.

This is ridiculous, though. You have no idea that Kempny is going to be available for trade for a 3rd rounder at the time of the Johansson trade. Heck, they don't even know where in the 2012 1st round that Colorado's pick is going to fall at the time of the Varlamov trade (June 2011), let alone that Filip Forsberg would slide to them at 11.

Trades are evaluated with the information you have in the present. Using hindsight about future usage of assets is not a good way to evaluate them. Using hindsight to grade professional scouting is fine to an extent (barring things like unsuspected injuries), since its the scout's job to assess what players will do in the future. But it's nobody's job to be a telepath and determine what a draft pick is going to be traded for in 9 months time.

 

[895]

Not correct. You're adding another step in the story. The return for Varly was Forsberg just as the return for Mojo was Kemps and Fehervary. The pick is only as good as what it's used for.

I don't think Colorado makes that trade if they knew 1) their pick would be 11th and 2) Forsberg would fall that much.

Varlamov for Colorado 1st

Picking Forsberg at 11

Trading Forsberg for Erat

Should all be evaluated as separate transactions.

 

[Hivemind]

I don't think Colorado makes that trade if they knew 1) their pick would be 11th and 2) Forsberg would fall that much.

Varlamov for Colorado 1st

Picking Forsberg at 11

Trading Forsberg for Erat

Should all be evaluated as separate transactions.

Add in Boston's 2012 2nd to the return for Varlamov

Also add in that trading that 2nd along with Cody Eakin to the Stars for Mike Ribeiro is a separate transaction.

 

[aonb]

Pominville still had 29 even-strength points last year and 27 the year before that. And he's still effective at driving play forwards, albeit in much softer match-ups now. Buffalo was a decidedly better team with him on the ice than without him.

Donskoi has had back-to-back 14 goal seasons in a bottom 6 role with 13 of those goals coming at even strength in both. He's a great fit as a depth scoring 3RW replacement for Connolly.

I don't even want to know how many of these point came from playing with Eichel and Skinner. Look at his production without them carrying his slow as **** ass

 

[artilector]

Not correct. You're adding another step in the story. The return for Varly was Forsberg just as the return for Mojo was Kemps and Fehervary. The pick is only as good as what it's used for.

No, I think he's right -- picks are judged by the kind of players they yield "historically, on average", not by specific players that somebody got lucky with.

As to the initial point, maybe one can argue that BMac & the Caps' scouts can squeeze a bit more value out of picks than most teams, but I think it would be wishful thinking to say that they're gonna be light years ahead. Otherwise, if the Caps can reliably convert 2nds into Kempnys, might as well plan the parades now!

 

[Raikkonen]

Now watch GMBM sign Mojo to solve our pick calculations properly.

 

[artilector]

How, if they play the Avs in a Final?

Umm, no. Didn't need to play Preds in the finals for the Forsberg trade to become a disaster.

And no, I'm not saying Bura is Forsberg, if that's the next question.

 

[Silky mitts]

Not correct. You're adding another step in the story. The return for Varly was Forsberg just as the return for Mojo was Kemps and Fehervary. The pick is only as good as what it's used for.

This is ridiculous, though. You have no idea that Kempny is going to be available for trade for a 3rd rounder at the time of the Johansson trade. Heck, they don't even know where in the 2012 1st round that Colorado's pick is going to fall at the time of the Varlamov trade (June 2011), let alone that Filip Forsberg would slide to them at 11.

Trades are evaluated with the information you have in the present. Using hindsight about future usage of assets is not a good way to evaluate them. Using hindsight to grade professional scouting is fine to an extent (barring things like unsuspected injuries), since its the scout's job to assess what players will do in the future. But it's nobody's job to be a telepath and determine what a draft pick is going to be traded for in 9 months time.

If you evaluate the Mojo trade or any trade with future information, there's so much to consider. He got hurt close to immediately, Caps used the space on outbidding KHL teams for Kuzy who immediately is Conn Smythe runner up plus they get Fehervary and Kempny, but then NJ gets the picks back in a deeper draft and has a successful tank and the top pick. On the other hand if you evaluate it immediately all you can conclude is that if they're trading him in division it was the best offer they received on a guy they needed to move with 2 years on his deal so how do you grade it?

 

[Hivemind]

If you evaluate the Mojo trade or any trade with future information, there's so much to consider. He got hurt close to immediately, Caps used the space on outbidding KHL teams for Kuzy who immediately is Conn Smythe runner up plus they get Fehervary and Kempny, but then NJ gets the picks back in a deeper draft and has a successful tank and the top pick. On the other hand if you evaluate it immediately all you can conclude is that if they're trading him in division it was the best offer they received on a guy they needed to move with 2 years on his deal so how do you grade it?

The point that started this whole discussion is the next thought you have after the bolded statement. Why did they have to move him so urgently, and thus why was the offer they received so lukewarm? This trade having an equivalent return just emphasizes the poor leverage that GMBM had given himself on that particular trade.

 

[shtorm2005]

So far, good players leaving, better players not coming.... all this to get more cap space.

 

[Hivemind]

So far, good players leaving, better players not coming.... all this to get more cap space.

With Vrana needing a raise and very little increase in the salary cap, they were always going to have to shed some salary elsewhere.

Let's see what they do with the ~$3M they have to spend on 3RW.

 

[artilector]

So far, good players leaving, better players not coming.... all this to get more cap space.

What did you expect to happen during a cap crunch? The only question was who the Caps would lose, not whether it was gonna happen...

 

[Silky mitts]

The point that started this whole discussion is the next thought you have after the bolded statement. Why did they have to move him so urgently, and thus why was the offer they received so lukewarm? This trade having an equivalent return just emphasizes the poor leverage that GMBM had given himself on that particular trade.

Why so urgent was because they needed the cap room after maybe Oshie and Kuzy came in a little higher than expected and like with Subban they wanted no retention and no salary coming back. The return being underwhelming, why was it underwhelming? The Varlamov and Erat deals looked lopsided immediately but the Mojo and Bura deals are fair enough to me how can you declare a winner without more information?

 

[Hivemind]

Why so urgent was because they needed the cap room after maybe Oshie and Kuzy came in a little higher than expected and like with Subban they wanted no retention and no salary coming back. The return being underwhelming, why was it underwhelming? The Varlamov and Erat deals looked lopsided immediately but the Mojo and Bura deals are fair enough to me how can you declare a winner without more information?

The "why was it so urgent" was rhetorical. I fully understand the history of the contracts and cap situation at the time. I posted on this subject at the time as well.

The point I was making is that GMBM sacrificed his trade leverage in the Johansson deal by painting himself into a salary cap corner, and that getting an almost identical return for a lesser player highlights that.

 

[Dr John Carlson]

Reasonably happy with this. I've been pretty down on Burakovsky for a long time now. But I do get a little sad whenever a member of the Cup team goes away.