Value of: Buffalo Sabres and LA Kings - (Dahlin, not Eichel)

Rorschach

Who the f*** is Trevor Moore?
Oct 9, 2006
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If by the deadline or by the next entry draft period, Buffalo decides to blow it up and unload as many positive assets in the 25-something range for three times as many assets in the 18-21 year old range. And Buffalo trades Eichel to NYR to start this process.

So this deal/value of this is step 2, pending step 1 of Buffalo dealing Eichel to NYR (for something like Kakko, Lafreniere, and two firsts or whatever) because they decide to blow it up and go much younger and much deeper in the farm.

To LA: Rasmus Dahlin (LHD)

To Buff: Alex Turcotte (C), Rasmus Kupari (C), Kale Clague (LHD), 2021 LA 1st rounder (unprotected), Olli Maata (makes room for Dahlin, can be flipped at the deadline for a pick)

(We can tune the center prospects, we have a kajillion in LA. ie, we can swap Kupari for Tyler Madden for example) I picked the three prospects that I feel are the closest to NHL-ready for Buffalo, that aren't already in LA contributing. Clague is our top PMD-style LHD but if Buffalo wants some other defenseman prospect, that can also be discussed.


As I can see, one of Buffalo's main problems is the previous GM Tim Murray did not patiently stack enough young assets around Eichel, before and after him, and started going after the Moulsens and O'Reillys of the world. Then when that guy got fired, the team still had no success and no upward developmental progress. The GMs after kept up a steady diet of overpaid players like Skinner and Hall instead of promoting low-price well-developed prospects internally. They came out of the Eichel/Reinhart rebuild too soon.

LA has been rumored to have the assets and cap-space to make a deal with Buffalo, for Eichel, but I would say we don't want a 1C. We have tons of Cs and our organization has made it clear we need a dynamic LHD, probably anchoring the 2nd pair with either Matt Roy or Sean Walker (probably the former).

I feel NYR's offer of two young star winger prospects plus firsts can be a good deal IF it is followed up by a major deal with LA to acquire two or more young star centers (and likely a young LHD like Clague) from LA plus at least another first. Then Buffalo can decide to keep or deal Reinhart.

Now they have a ton more prospects, a bunch of firsts in the next several years to round out the rebuild, a ton of cap space to weaponize for even more futures and can work on building a farm system closer to LA and Ottawa's before trying to get NHL results.

I also think Dahlin can really benefit in LA's highly structured, veteran-led team defense, playing behind Doughty on the 2nd pair and playing in an organization with the likes of Rob Blake in the organization, plus playing in front of a Ranford-coached pairing of Petersen-Quick and having centers/forwards like Kopitar controlling the puck down the middle.
 

YP44

Registered User
Jan 30, 2012
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Calgary, AB
would suck to lose Kupari AND Turcotte and then also a first on top of that. Not saying that his is not what it would take (based on other threads Buffalo may ask for more) just that it owuld hurt.
 

bernmeister

Registered User
Jun 11, 2010
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Da Big Apple
If by the deadline or by the next entry draft period, Buffalo decides to blow it up and unload as many positive assets in the 25-something range for three times as many assets in the 18-21 year old range. And Buffalo trades Eichel to NYR to start this process.

So this deal/value of this is step 2, pending step 1 of Buffalo dealing Eichel to NYR (for something like Kakko, Lafreniere, and two firsts or whatever) because they decide to blow it up and go much younger and much deeper in the farm.

To LA: Rasmus Dahlin (LHD)

To Buff: Alex Turcotte (C), Rasmus Kupari (C), Kale Clague (LHD), 2021 LA 1st rounder (unprotected), Olli Maata (makes room for Dahlin, can be flipped at the deadline for a pick)

(We can tune the center prospects, we have a kajillion in LA. ie, we can swap Kupari for Tyler Madden for example) I picked the three prospects that I feel are the closest to NHL-ready for Buffalo, that aren't already in LA contributing. Clague is our top PMD-style LHD but if Buffalo wants some other defenseman prospect, that can also be discussed.


As I can see, one of Buffalo's main problems is the previous GM Tim Murray did not patiently stack enough young assets around Eichel, before and after him, and started going after the Moulsens and O'Reillys of the world. Then when that guy got fired, the team still had no success and no upward developmental progress. The GMs after kept up a steady diet of overpaid players like Skinner and Hall instead of promoting low-price well-developed prospects internally. They came out of the Eichel/Reinhart rebuild too soon.

LA has been rumored to have the assets and cap-space to make a deal with Buffalo, for Eichel, but I would say we don't want a 1C. We have tons of Cs and our organization has made it clear we need a dynamic LHD, probably anchoring the 2nd pair with either Matt Roy or Sean Walker (probably the former).

I feel NYR's offer of two young star winger prospects plus firsts can be a good deal IF it is followed up by a major deal with LA to acquire two or more young star centers (and likely a young LHD like Clague) from LA plus at least another first. Then Buffalo can decide to keep or deal Reinhart.

Now they have a ton more prospects, a bunch of firsts in the next several years to round out the rebuild, a ton of cap space to weaponize for even more futures and can work on building a farm system closer to LA and Ottawa's before trying to get NHL results.

I also think Dahlin can really benefit in LA's highly structured, veteran-led team defense, playing behind Doughty on the 2nd pair and playing in an organization with the likes of Rob Blake in the organization, plus playing in front of a Ranford-coached pairing of Petersen-Quick and having centers/forwards like Kopitar controlling the puck down the middle.

Rangers not dealing bluest blue chip elcs for almost anyone incl Eichel.
if Strome = 1st/+
then 2 1sts + Buch is highest NYR go, but that doesn't solve prob of cap fit on 10m for Eich add
NYR can't seriously consider big $$ add unless Trouba waives and is dealt -- not any time soon
 

Djp

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Jul 28, 2012
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Start of next year Dahlin us just 21.
They aren’t trading him unless you blow the doors off.

the OP offer doesn’t

Clague is not ED exempts do buffalo wouldn’t protect him

Turcotte, Kupari, and a 1st + cap dump.
 
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Djp

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Jul 28, 2012
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Rangers not dealing bluest blue chip elcs for almost anyone incl Eichel.
if Strome = 1st/+
then 2 1sts + Buch is highest NYR go, but that doesn't solve prob of cap fit on 10m for Eich add
NYR can't seriously consider big $$ add unless Trouba waives and is dealt -- not any time soon

It’s a give to actually get ifyou want a blue chip player.
 
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Kurrilino

Go Stoll Go
Aug 6, 2005
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Absolutely hell no.

We stick to our youngsters until we a rough idea how they are developing.
Our defense it solid and growing even stronger.

If we really have to deal for a defender we should wait for a real low balling chance
 

Rorschach

Who the f*** is Trevor Moore?
Oct 9, 2006
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Los Angeles
would suck to lose Kupari AND Turcotte and then also a first on top of that. Not saying that his is not what it would take (based on other threads Buffalo may ask for more) just that it owuld hurt.

For sure it would hurt, it kinda has to...on the other hand Buffalo is giving up a 1OA in Dahlin. Imagine 3 years from now, Doughty-Anderson becomes the 2nd pair and Dahlin-Roy takes over the first pair. I feel offering up this much of our pain is a fair starting point for a Dahlin.
 

Rorschach

Who the f*** is Trevor Moore?
Oct 9, 2006
11,298
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Los Angeles
Rangers not dealing bluest blue chip elcs for almost anyone incl Eichel.
if Strome = 1st/+
then 2 1sts + Buch is highest NYR go, but that doesn't solve prob of cap fit on 10m for Eich add
NYR can't seriously consider big $$ add unless Trouba waives and is dealt -- not any time soon

I'm just going by the deals I saw proposed. As for cap-wise, I'm not too worried for a team like the Rangers...they'll figure out a way around the cap as they have a lot of money to pay experts to manage that sort of thing and to wiggle around like burying players, etc.
 

Uberpecker

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Mar 3, 2011
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If it takes that many words to explain your proposal that's a sign it's probably no good.

Doesn't make any sense for Buffalo.
 

Rorschach

Who the f*** is Trevor Moore?
Oct 9, 2006
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Los Angeles
Does Buffalo really need more prospects? I think they need a coach that brings structure to the team and can bring Dahlin to his potential

I agree...but, if they go down the road and deal Eichel, I think that clearly signals a change in philosophy and, hopefully for Buffalo's sake, a change in front office and coaching philosophy.
 

Rorschach

Who the f*** is Trevor Moore?
Oct 9, 2006
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Los Angeles
Start of next year Dahlin us just 21.
They aren’t trading him unless you blow the doors off.

the OP offer doesn’t

Clague is not ED exempts do buffalo wouldn’t protect him

Turcotte, Kupari, and a 1st + cap dump.

Ok thanks for the counter...as I mentioned, maybe we replace Clague with Maata (w/ retention if necessary), this way we can fit in both Dahlin and whatever cap dump it is, assuming the dump is from Buffalo and is only one year or so salary left.
 

Rorschach

Who the f*** is Trevor Moore?
Oct 9, 2006
11,298
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Los Angeles
Absolutely hell no.

We stick to our youngsters until we a rough idea how they are developing.
Our defense it solid and growing even stronger.

If we really have to deal for a defender we should wait for a real low balling chance

Ok fair enough. I just feel in this case, Dahlin's ceiling is like Byfield's, sky high. And I think our defense is getting better but we don't have a 1D anywhere in our system so it's all on Doughty...and I believe Blake is saying something similar. We do pay a ton but Dahlin is like 21 years old.
 

Rorschach

Who the f*** is Trevor Moore?
Oct 9, 2006
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I'm not a fan of either team but I would think that Quinton Byfield is the starting point along with Tobias Bjornfot? I realize LA would think that's a steep price (and Buffalo may even scoff at that offer) but wouldn't that be more realistic?

I think for Buffalo's case, Byfield may be the more valuable asset but if LA included Byfield, they would significantly include less other futures and Byfield is much farther away (at least a year if not two) and much less certain than a Turcotte and/or Kupari. I was looking at more certainty for Buffalo in this case.
 

Bloomberg

Registered User
Jun 20, 2014
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I agree...but, if they go down the road and deal Eichel, I think that clearly signals a change in philosophy and, hopefully for Buffalo's sake, a change in front office and coaching philosophy.

Yeah, but Eichel is 24 already, while Dahlin is only 20 and plays D. And if they do deal Eichel, they'll have even more prospects, they don't need to deal Dahlin. I think in any event, even a rebuild, Dahlin is staying. I think you should go after Byram or a LHD from Philly
 
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Rorschach

Who the f*** is Trevor Moore?
Oct 9, 2006
11,298
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Los Angeles
If it takes that many words to explain your proposal that's a sign it's probably no good.

Doesn't make any sense for Buffalo.


I'm not saying it makes sense or doesn't make sense. If Buffalo decides to go down that road of trading Eichel, none of the three top teams that have cap space and have the assets will want to give center prospects.

Now if Buffalo decides to stay pat on Eichel, which is what I'm guessing they will do IRL, then this trade value/proposal goes out the door too. But unless they have an overall plan like Sakic had in Colorado w/MacKinnon, Buffalo is still going downward instead of upward. If they plan well, they can deal their guys at the top of their value in the near future, while other teams still are willing to pay on perceived value of Eichel and Dahlin. Otherwise if in two years it "doesn't work out on it's own" and Eichel now has multiple sub-20 goal seasons...
 

Rorschach

Who the f*** is Trevor Moore?
Oct 9, 2006
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Yeah, but Eichel is 24 already, while Dahlin is only 2o and plays D. And if they do deal Eichel, they'll have even more prospects, they don't need to deal Dahlin. I think in any event, even a rebuild, Dahlin is staying. I think you should go after Byram or a LHD from Philly

Fair response. Maybe Buffalo waits to deal Eichel, which is probably a wise move anyway, and wait for a deal where they directly get a young 1C back. Currently of the three teams with the assets and cap, none of them have 1Cs they will deal, except the Kings but the Kings don't need a 1C yet in Eichel.
 

Sam Pollock

Registered User
Mar 1, 2013
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I think for Buffalo's case, Byfield may be the more valuable asset but if LA included Byfield, they would significantly include less other futures and Byfield is much farther away (at least a year if not two) and much less certain than a Turcotte and/or Kupari. I was looking at more certainty for Buffalo in this case.
I agree with everything you said but I think it would be a steep price (i.e. Byfield and Bjornfot for Dahlin) and would think from a LA perspective that it wouldn't be worth it. I realize that Dahlin is in the middle of a down year but I blame Eichel for the majority of that being so. Those two 40+ point seasons are very impressive; albeit having Eichel on your team helps considerably.
 

sxvnert

Registered User
Nov 23, 2015
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Dahlin for Byfield straight up

- Byfield allows the Sabres to build around a new #1C after trading disgruntled Eichel
- Dahlin and Doughty would become an unbelievable top pairing.
 

Bloomberg

Registered User
Jun 20, 2014
1,869
481
Fair response. Maybe Buffalo waits to deal Eichel, which is probably a wise move anyway, and wait for a deal where they directly get a young 1C back. Currently of the three teams with the assets and cap, none of them have 1Cs they will deal, except the Kings but the Kings don't need a 1C yet in Eichel.

I think the team that makes the most sense for Eichel is the Rangers. I'd go after Lafreniere and Schneider and hope to draft a 1C
 

Rorschach

Who the f*** is Trevor Moore?
Oct 9, 2006
11,298
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Los Angeles
I agree with everything you said but I think it would be a steep price (i.e. Byfield and Bjornfot for Dahlin) and would think from a LA perspective that it wouldn't be worth it. I realize that Dahlin is in the middle of a down year but I blame Eichel for the majority of that being so. Those two 40+ point seasons are very impressive; albeit having Eichel on your team helps considerably.

If looking for the LA side, yes, the goal is to hopefully build Kopitar/Doughty 2.0 with Byfield and Dahlin, except this time, the ages are more correct. Kopitar is a couple years too old for the still prime Doughty and I feel 1Ds can be a couple years ahead of the 1C...Dahlin at 21 with Byfield at 18/19 is just about right.

Also, I don't consider Dahlin a dump...I'm offering top value for him, IMO. The only difference from before value and now is simply he "might" be available for the right center prospect package in a sans Eichel/sans 1C prospect in Buffalo world, post an Eichel trade to NYR.
 

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