Rumor: Buff to the Flyers

[Yukon Joe]

Now for a deal to make sense, Jets would need to take 5 mill back if it is Buff getting moved.

Very good point. I'm checking out the Flyers on Capgeek right now. They are absolutely right to the max, so the Jets would need to take back equivalent salary (and, by the way, the Jets are pretty close to the cap themselves).

Hard to come up with a deal that makes sense both on-ice and for the cap. If the Jets trade their #1 D-man, it has to be for pieces that will make an impact for the Jets for years to come. Coburn and L Schenn are UFAs in three years (same time frame as Buff), and Coburn has a modified NTC. Simmonds is under contract a long time, but subject to a modified NTC.

B Schenn and Coturier are the kind of players the Jets would be interested in, but their ELC contracts don't add up to enough. I suppose the Flyers could trade Giroux and make it work, but that isn't happening.

Let's see - Voracek and Coturier for Buff? Didn't think so.

I just don't see a deal that makes sense for both teams (and I'm assuming, until proven otherwise, that Winnipeg is on everyone's "no trade" list).

 

[Bob E]

Flyers would have to make a couple of deals - one with Jets for Buff, and one with another team to dump salary/cap hit. Or the Jets would likely have to take a 'bad' contract back from the Flyers - Coburn, Meszaros, etc. Jets aren't in the habit of making those types of deals, so don't see a single Jets/Flyers move.

If the Flyers make moves to dump salary, then something might be brewing.

 

[ps241]

Benny I read rumblings on the Flyer board that there may be some questions about Brayden Schenn being a bit light in the hockey IQ department? I have no idea if that is accurate or a "one off" opinion. Any thoughts in that regard?

Based on Philly's cap situation things are going to be very restricted as far them shopping their value priced talent.

 

[Jet]

So physical edge means better defensively?? What kind of logic is that?? So Stuart is better then Toby because he's more physical??

EDIT: Yes, this is the exact logic you used.

With all due respect, Duke, I am well aware of your feelings about Zach Bogosian.

You must be kidding with the Stuart comment.

 

[garret9]

Benny I read rumblings on the Flyer board that there may be some questions about Brayden Schenn being a bit light in the hockey IQ department? I have no idea if that is accurate or a "one off" opinion. Any thoughts in that regard?

Based on Philly's cap situation things are going to be very restricted as far them shopping their value priced talent.

Meh that board can be worse than us when it comes to flaming their players because things aren't going well.

I still think B.Schenn and Coots are great Cs with nice upside.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Flyers would have to make a couple of deals - one with Jets for Buff, and one with another team to dump salary/cap hit. Or the Jets would likely have to take a 'bad' contract back from the Flyers - Coburn, Meszaros, etc. Jets aren't in the habit of making those types of deals, so don't see a single Jets/Flyers move.

If the Flyers make moves to dump salary, then something might be brewing.

There aren't that many teams with enough cap space to take on big contracts. Calgary, Colorado, Florida and Isles are the only teams with $10m+ in cap space, and of those only Calgary is a team that historically spends to the cap.

 

[bennysflyers16]

Benny I read rumblings on the Flyer board that there may be some questions about Brayden Schenn being a bit light in the hockey IQ department? I have no idea if that is accurate or a "one off" opinion. Any thoughts in that regard?

Based on Philly's cap situation things are going to be very restricted as far them shopping their value priced talent.

I don't see too much of that ? Flyers board is the definition of extremes and remember who Schenn got traded for, he will never get a fair assessment from some on there.

They could make Buff fit for 1 of the wingers and say Gus ( very under rated) just whether Jets feel that is enough. Unless Jets think Grossman, but then Jets would need to shed some $$ I think ?

More I think of it, if Jets are to trade Buff I think they need to go after a team with a potential #1 center which isn't available from Philly ( G not on table)

 

[bennysflyers16]

Meh that board can be worse than us when it comes to flaming their players because things aren't going well.

I still think B.Schenn and Coots are great Cs with nice upside.

Nice upside as #2 Centers or #3 Selke candidates, is that what Jets need by trading Buff tho ?

 

[garret9]

Nice upside as #2 Centers or #3 Selke candidates, is that what Jets need by trading Buff tho ?

I think they both have potential 1C. More Schenn than Coots but they got it.

 

[tbcwpg]

That's one way for them to look at it I guess. Or they could have kept Moulson, and used other minor assets (mid round picks, mid tier prospects) to add complementary scoring as well. Not as good as Vanek for sure, but at that point you would have Moulson and Vanek for a run. At a cheaper price.

I just don't see how knowing Moulsons future really changes anything though. Instead of losing Moulson, they most likely lose Vanek, and have paid a steep price banking on the hope that Vanek and JT >> Moulson and JT, to the tune that Vanek and JT takes them further into the playoffs while Moulson and JT doesn't.

Maybe it works out and Vanek and JT get hot in the first round (but we won't know if Moulson and JT might have as well but whatever). Still don't like the risk though, and if I was a fan, would have preferred Snow to target someone with some term on his deal. (at that price).

I don't think you'd have Moulson and Vanek because would Buffalo take that return for Vanek? Probably not. You'd have Moulson and a bunch of prospects (their current setup), or Vanek and a bunch of prospects (an improvement). Plus, if they're out of it, they might get more for Vanek at the deadline than Moulson, as sort of a plan B.

 

[Huffer]

B Schenn should become a more physical Little with similar pts ( 50 at low and 70 at high). Couts at times looks slow, but than looked so strong last game. Ignoring point totals, watching him go against Malkin and Tavares is exactly what the FLyers need. He has always had awful linemates under Lavy, but now that he is with Talbot and Read he looks a lot better. He and Read are also a very good PK tandom. That being said, Flyers have a Couts replacement in Laughton and no real Schenn replacement. That could of been Vinny for next few years but he looks very good as a winger with G.

Voracek and Simmer is similar scenario. Jake is by far better offensively, but Simmer provides a need for the JEts ( and a lot of teams) so tough to say. Jets have guys like Jake in Wheeler already, Simmonds is a rare guy that is big, tough, scores in streaks, and is a PP staple. That being said, Tye McGinn is a Simmonds lite, so who knows ?

Coburn is the wild card, he is a Ferarri with a Lada engine. All the tools to be a top pairing D man, but just no hockey IQ. He isn't nearly as bad as our board makes him and he is capable of big minutes. He and Bogo would be a killer shutdown pair that could play 23-25 mins every night.

Now for a deal to make sense, Jets would need to take 5 mill back if it is Buff getting moved. Coburn fits, but has a NTC. Simmer and Jake are on very friendly cap hits so that increases their value, so who knows. My best guess would be asking for Jake or Simmer and a D man is best chance to get for Buff. I don't really want Buff as I am not his biggest fan, but Holmer and Big Ed are nuts and Flyers are in need of a number 1 D, so a deal is there. Berube is BIG into fitness and giving full effort, so who knows how much say he has.

Thanks Benny, this is a great response.

Having another Little who's more physical doesn't sound like a bad thing to me. I don't know how realistic getting true #1C's are (the Crosby's, Malkin's, Giroux's), so I'm not against trying to roll 3 balanced lines that can score.

One thing that stood out to me was that between B Schenn and Simmonds, is that Schenn outhit Simmonds last year. Is Schenn more physical that Simmonds in that regard, and Simmonds getting his rep as being more physical by engaging in the odd fight?

Are you thinking that hypothetically that Voracek and Simmonds are more available than B Schenn and Couts?

Knowing that you don't want the Flyers to take on Buff (and thanks for not going down that road), what would you try to do if you were the GM of the Jets? (knowing what the Jets need).

What do you think is best package to make the Jets better (realistic return of course).

Cheers!

 

[Huffer]

I don't think you'd have Moulson and Vanek because would Buffalo take that return for Vanek? Probably not. You'd have Moulson and a bunch of prospects (their current setup), or Vanek and a bunch of prospects (an improvement). Plus, if they're out of it, they might get more for Vanek at the deadline than Moulson, as sort of a plan B.

Sorry, you're right. That's a typo there really. What I was trying to say is that then you'd have Moulson and that complimentary piece.

I will go back and edit.

 

[bennysflyers16]

Thanks Benny, this is a great response.

Having another Little who's more physical doesn't sound like a bad thing to me. I don't know how realistic getting true #1C's are (the Crosby's, Malkin's, Giroux's), so I'm not against trying to roll 3 balanced lines that can score.

One thing that stood out to me was that between B Schenn and Simmonds, is that Schenn outhit Simmonds last year. Is Schenn more physical that Simmonds in that regard, and Simmonds getting his rep as being more physical by engaging in the odd fight?

Are you thinking that hypothetically that Voracek and Simmonds are more available than B Schenn and Couts?

Knowing that you don't want the Flyers to take on Buff (and thanks for not going down that road), what would you try to do if you were the GM of the Jets? (knowing what the Jets need).

What do you think is best package to make the Jets better (realistic return of course).

Cheers!

Brayden is way quicker on the forecheck than Simmer and that is where the hits come from. I don't think Flyers want to trade anyone as it appears they are getting comfortable in complete new system, but to add 5 mill of a premiere player they have to move similar salary. Sure Mezz and Laughton would be awesome for Buff, but Jets want no part of it. I honestly think Flyers would do Coburn and Simmer if Coburn would waive and that probably helps both teams even tho both probably say no deal

If Jets are serious of moving him tho, I look to Oilers for one of the kids , or Jets make a small trade just to shake the tree a bit before the Noel firing really starts to become a distraction.

 

[truck]

To move Buff I think the return would have to include...

A young centre like:
Cooter
Schenn
Laughton

OR an established winger like:
Voracek
Simmonds

AND an established NHL D man:
Schenn
Coburn
Grossman

along with another young player with upside and / or picks.

I doubt we see a move, but if we do, I wanna see the Jets add depth to the forward group.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Brayden is way quicker on the forecheck than Simmer and that is where the hits come from. I don't think Flyers want to trade anyone as it appears they are getting comfortable in complete new system, but to add 5 mill of a premiere player they have to move similar salary. Sure Mezz and Laughton would be awesome for Buff, but Jets want no part of it. I honestly think Flyers would do Coburn and Simmer if Coburn would waive and that probably helps both teams even tho both probably say no deal

If Jets are serious of moving him tho, I look to Oilers for one of the kids , or Jets make a small trade just to shake the tree a bit before the Noel firing really starts to become a distraction.

I've heard the Edmonton sports talk station mention Winnipeg as few times as a trading partner for the Oilers, citing how we're a bigger tougher team (and that Edmonton needs to get bigger and tougher).

There are more options for making a trade with the Oil (in part because they have so few no-trade clauses). But both teams are close to the cap (though not as tight as Philly) so you'd still need to match salary coming each way.

Yakopov is the most likely trade bait for the Oilers, but I think Lowe and Co probably overvalue him because he was a #1 pick. But you couldn't do a Buff for Nail trade because of the salary differential - you'd need $3-$4m coming back. You'd have to throw in a Gagner or Hemsky, and Gagner + Yakopov seems a little rich for Buff (even though I'm not a fan of either OIler player).

 

[BigZ65]

....making it a bit more interesting...

Buff and Burmi for B Schenn, Coburn and Laughton (2012 #20 pick).

Proof that we heavily overvalue our own players.

That's way too much from Philadelphia. We'd probably have to add a high draft pick, top prospect or both to even that out.

If we could move Byfuglien and a prospect (other than Trouba, Schiefele, Morrisey, Lowry, Petan, Comrie, Hellebuyck) for a centre and good LHD (preferably guys that are signed for a few years or a few years away from UFA), we'll have done pretty good.

 

[captainpaxil]

To move Buff I think the return would have to include...

A young centre like:
Cooter
Schenn
Laughton

OR an established winger like:
Voracek
Simmonds

AND an established NHL D man:
Schenn
Coburn
Grossman

along with another young player with upside and / or picks.

I doubt we see a move, but if we do, I wanna see the Jets add depth to the forward group.

grossman and laughton is a maybe but the rest is just too much from philly. im not that high on buff though

 

[Majikme]

Wouldn't mind it if we get a quality C.

 

[Whileee]

Proof that we heavily overvalue our own players.

That's way too much from Philadelphia. We'd probably have to add a high draft pick, top prospect or both to even that out.

If we could move Byfuglien and a prospect (other than Trouba, Schiefele, Morrisey, Lowry, Petan, Comrie, Hellebuyck) for a centre and good LHD (preferably guys that are signed for a few years or a few years away from UFA), we'll have done pretty good.

So, you think that the Jets might have to trade:

Buff, Burmi, high draft pick, top prospect for B Schenn, Coburn and Laughton? I think you are seriously undervaluing the Jets players. Remember, the Jets are a better team than the Flyers, and they are presumably the team looking for a transformative trade to boost their D. They are going to have to pay a premium for that.

I just hope that Chevy consistently sells high and buys low. Other than drafting wisely, it might be the most important way to build a winning franchise.

 

[Huffer]

grossman and laughton is a maybe but the rest is just too much from philly. im not that high on buff though

Grossman and Laughton doesn't get Buff by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[BigZ65]

So, you think that the Jets might have to trade:

Buff, Burmi, high draft pick, top prospect for B Schenn, Coburn and Laughton? I think you are seriously undervaluing the Jets players. Remember, the Jets are a better team than the Flyers, and they are presumably the team looking for a transformative trade to boost their D. They are going to have to pay a premium for that.

I just hope that Chevy consistently sells high and buys low. Other than drafting wisely, it might be the most important way to build a winning franchise.

Nope. I'm not talking specifically about a deal with the Flyers. Generally, Byfuglien and a prospect (other than Trouba, Schiefele, Morrisey, Lowry, Petan, Comrie, Hellebuyck) should fetch us a top 9 centre and a good LHD.

Burmistrov would fall into that prospect category for us right now as a guy not on the NHL roster.

The Flyers as a non-contender have less pressure to part with solid future core pieces for veterans who are at peak or in decline.

 

[pucka lucka]

Nope. I'm not talking specifically about a deal with the Flyers. Generally, Byfuglien and a prospect (other than Trouba, Schiefele, Morrisey, Lowry, Petan, Comrie, Hellebuyck) should fetch us a top 9 centre and a good LHD.

Burmistrov would fall into that prospect category for us right now as a guy not on the NHL roster.

The Flyers as a non-contender have less pressure to part with solid future core pieces for veterans who are at peak or in decline.

Hah. Buff and a top prospect gets a 3rd liner centre and a good LHD? Undervalue much?

 

[wpgsilver]

I'd just like to thank the Flyers fans for stopping by and actually contributing.
Unlike the trade board, its refreshing to see real discussion amongst fan bases about player values.

 

[jigglysquishy]

I still prefer a trade with Edmonton (Eberle+) for Buff, but if we can get back a center in this deal I'm all fine.

In reality, we should be waiting. There are lots of questions (can Scheifele play effectively at the 2nd C slot, how does Buff keep up condition wise, how does Trouba look) I would like answered before making a massive trade like this.

 

[BigZ65]

Hah. Buff and a top prospect gets a 3rd liner centre and a good LHD? Undervalue much?

A legitimate top 9 centre in his prime, of which we (currently) have one, a guy who can contribute to the PP and PK.

A LHD that is basically equal (top 4) to Byfuglien without the freelancing (good and bad).

That's not fair value? It might be a little too much, but Byfuglien's unique abilities will cause someone to make that move. Keep in mind Byfuglien is one season away from UFA in the off-season (when he is likely to be traded if we are going to receive guys who can join our NHL roster immediately).

Also, look at the list of prospects I wouldn't move, there's others like Kosmachuk that I wouldn't move unless we got overpayment too. A top prospect wouldn't be going, unless you really believe in Lukas Sutter, Aaron Harstad and Ryan Olsen.