GregSirico
KakkoSZN
If you're going to goon it up .. at least goon it up right! What a disaster this signing has been. I'd do anything to be done with him. Comes in out of shape, looks lost, goes down to Hartford and does this?
Waived: Brendan Smith (Update: CLEARED)
- Thread starter nevesis
- Start date
Hire Sather
He Is Our Star
This is why anyone who cheers when one of our actual good players tries to fight is a confirmed 100% out and out mook.
lucky13
Iron Chic
ZiGOODejad
intangibles
- Nov 30, 2013
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Hire Sather
He Is Our Star
What?
A guy broke his hand fighting
Any player who fights can do the same
That means Mike Zibanajed should not be fighting and we should worry when he does.
TheTakedown
Puck is Life
- Jul 11, 2012
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GregSirico
KakkoSZN
EXACTLY. Why are we not talking about this more? Why is this even being brushed aside because he's had a bad season? I don't have a bad day at work and knock out my coworker?
Machinehead
GoAwayTrouba
Even more so for those who say "yeah I like fights in practice gotta show some effort!!"
He's a good player but he's shown a ton of off-ice irresponsibility this year.
Charlie Conway
Oxford Comma
- Nov 2, 2013
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Kind of wish I could sometimes...
I'm surprised to see no mention of it. What the hell is he doing? He can't make the big team, so he'll make sure no one does?
Would nice to hear a bit more about what went on there. Scrum that got a bit too pushy?
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
- Dec 28, 2003
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Not really comparable because in hockey it's acceptable to knock out your competitor. I don't know what line of business you're in, but that would be a no go for me.
Machinehead
GoAwayTrouba
I've seen pushing and shoving in practice tons of times but it should never get to the point where you're breaking bones.
Extremely idiotic on the part of both guys.
Extremely idiotic on the part of both guys.
Machinehead
GoAwayTrouba
f*** that, if any of those bitches at Baruch wanna go, I'll be happy to awkwardly wrestle them for 20 seconds.
GregSirico
KakkoSZN
Yeah no, fighting a teammate in practice is stupidity. I am not budging from that.
Machinehead
GoAwayTrouba
To this extent, I agree. This wasn't pushing and shoving. They broke bones.
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
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GregSirico
KakkoSZN
Exactly. If the report was "Smith broke his hand during a scrum in front of the net' that's one thing ... fighting is not that ... I'm not even a fan of it in regular play, at practice it's utter stupidity. You can disagree with me all you want, but if I ran the team and you got in a fight with a teammate, you would have to work your tail off to convince me you're part of the culture I want moving forward and good luck with that.
Machinehead
GoAwayTrouba
Not to mention Smith was out of shape and already in "work your tail off mode" and this is what he does.
Character issues are such a meme on HF but we might be looking at a legitimate one.
It's a shame because I still really like his game.
Pavel Buchnevich
Drury and Laviolette Must Go
This signing encapsulates why I don't trust Gorton's philosophy in building the defense.
Smith did not deserve the contract he got. He was getting scratched by the Red Wings, who had one of the worst defenses in the NHL. Wings fans said he wasn't deserving of the contract he wanted. The Wings management wouldn't meet the demands either.
There was a clear divide between the eye test on Smith and the underlying advanced stats. The underlying advanced stats said he was a top 4D, despite him not ever earning that role. Those who watched him play for years said otherwise. Gorton sides with the underlying advanced stats, and gives him a huge contract.
Fast forward to this season, and Smith sucks, kind of like we were told he would. I wouldn't say his underlying advanced stats were a complete fluke because there's obviously something to having good underlying advanced stats consistently over the course of a career, maybe he would do well in like a 6D role, but there was always going to be one dumb team that takes that data to mean he deserves to be paid like a top 4D. I'm not sure we should be handing out contracts to defensemen based purely on good underlying advanced stats in a lesser role. It seems like a recipe for disaster in building a defense.
And I think it might extend beyond the defense. All the advanced stats people hated Miller. There were certainly things to critique the guy for, and it was evident by the eye test or advanced stats, but if Gorton ousted him because of that instead of a fallout between him and the organization, that is very questionable, and should cause alarm bells for his management style. Miller is now playing in a different organization, and has started out great. He's a better hockey player than the guy he was traded for. If the trade was made because of coachability, locker room problems instead of advanced stats, its understandable. What is not understandable is making such important decisions based solely or even mostly on data whose impact is not fully known yet, that swings so widely from season to season. These are the same advanced stats that thought Hayes was terrible last season, and now he's great. Zucc has bad advanced stats this season, must mean he sucks?
Smith did not deserve the contract he got. He was getting scratched by the Red Wings, who had one of the worst defenses in the NHL. Wings fans said he wasn't deserving of the contract he wanted. The Wings management wouldn't meet the demands either.
There was a clear divide between the eye test on Smith and the underlying advanced stats. The underlying advanced stats said he was a top 4D, despite him not ever earning that role. Those who watched him play for years said otherwise. Gorton sides with the underlying advanced stats, and gives him a huge contract.
Fast forward to this season, and Smith sucks, kind of like we were told he would. I wouldn't say his underlying advanced stats were a complete fluke because there's obviously something to having good underlying advanced stats consistently over the course of a career, maybe he would do well in like a 6D role, but there was always going to be one dumb team that takes that data to mean he deserves to be paid like a top 4D. I'm not sure we should be handing out contracts to defensemen based purely on good underlying advanced stats in a lesser role. It seems like a recipe for disaster in building a defense.
And I think it might extend beyond the defense. All the advanced stats people hated Miller. There were certainly things to critique the guy for, and it was evident by the eye test or advanced stats, but if Gorton ousted him because of that instead of a fallout between him and the organization, that is very questionable, and should cause alarm bells for his management style. Miller is now playing in a different organization, and has started out great. He's a better hockey player than the guy he was traded for. If the trade was made because of coachability, locker room problems instead of advanced stats, its understandable. What is not understandable is making such important decisions based solely or even mostly on data whose impact is not fully known yet, that swings so widely from season to season. These are the same advanced stats that thought Hayes was terrible last season, and now he's great. Zucc has bad advanced stats this season, must mean he sucks?
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Charlie Conway
Oxford Comma
- Nov 2, 2013
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rangerfan_79
Registered User
He was too lazy to come into camp in playing shape. He now found a way to not have to play and still get paid.
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
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Canucks had a couple fights in practice in the early 2000s. Jarkko Ruutu tuned up Matt Cooke and Dan Cloutier fought Mike Brown (common name). Barnaby fought Lapointe in Chicago. Primeau fought Probert way back in Detroit. I remember Bill Guerin slashed a rookie in the neck in his first training camp in Dallas. It's not super uncommon.
GregSirico
KakkoSZN
I'm sorry but Character IS important. Talent isn't everything. People have to understand that playing on the ice isn't a video game. These are humans with personalities and emotions and when you have a toxic environment (I have worked in a few) your talents are never utilized to it's fullest potential.
Harbour Dog
Registered User
Shit happens. Seems like every year it happens a few times in the league. Didn't Falk and Kane fight this year?
I'd rather Smith be angry and frustrated at where he is at than accept it a'la Redden.
I'd rather Smith be angry and frustrated at where he is at than accept it a'la Redden.
NYRFAN218
King
But what character issues are there? He came into camp out of shape but it hasn't been a recurring theme throughout his career or anything like that. And we don't know what the backstory is behind the fight. Who's to say Lettieri didn't cheapshot him and they had a boys will be boys type fight? Fighting is dumb, yes, but this doesn't scream character issues to me. This isn't the first time teammates fight in practice and it won't be the last and I've never heard character issues brought up. I haven't heard of Smith being a negative presence down there off the ice either, quite the opposite actually even if his play on the ice does suck.
