Confirmed with Link: Brassard to Pittsburgh for 2018 1st, Gustavsson, Ian Cole

[Nac Mac Feegle]

....so if you follow what Vegas got we could have retained 40% for Reaves and a 4th. Is that worth it? I say thank you Vegas and run.

So why did Vegas do it? Check out this tweet from John Shannon...

...then Vegas is stupid.

Ooohhh, let's help out the strongest team in the league because we're afraid of meeting a 2/3C in the playoffs!

There's got to be a different explanation. No team in the league should be afraid of Brassard. Bloody hell.

 

[Sensung]

...then Vegas is stupid.

Ooohhh, let's help out the strongest team in the league because we're afraid of meeting a 2/3C in the playoffs!

There's got to be a different explanation. No team in the league should be afraid of Brassard. Bloody hell.

Marc Andre Fluery payback

 

[PatrikBerglund]

Even if a young goalie isn’t setting the world on fire doesn’t mean they won’t be good someday. Goalies are tough to predict. A young goalie who looks like he’ll be great one day isn’t a guarantee either. Look at Lehner.

Trading for a forward or defence prospect is not guaranteed to work either. Who says they ever amount to anything?

Exactly, which is the reason I would probably never structure a big trade around a goalie prospect being the main piece. Look at Lundqvist, he was what, a 7th rounder?

A lot of great goalie prospects have never even become NHL regulars.

As much as Ottawa needs a retool, it's sad realizing that Karlsson will probably be gone soon too - followed by several years not even close to the playoffs. :/

 

[Langdon Alger]

Exactly, which is the reason I would probably never structure a big trade around a goalie prospect being the main piece. Look at Lundqvist, he was what, a 7th rounder?

A lot of great goalie prospects have never even become NHL regulars.

As much as Ottawa needs a retool, it's sad realizing that Karlsson will probably be gone soon too - followed by several years not even close to the playoffs. :/

Well, I wouldn’t call this a big trade. Brassard is not a star player, he’s a good 2nd liner. If you expected more for him fine, but we also got a 1st round pick and we will flip Cole for another pick which will likely be a 2nd or 3rd.

It’s not an awful return. If Gustavsson turns out to be a good goalie it’s worth it. Let’s wait and see. You can’t really judge a trade like this for a few years. We may look back on this as a great move some day. Or we may look back on it and regret it. Time will tell.

 

[Bluelines]

Leaf fan , having gone through this rebuild experience, i can honestly say that you got a decent return for Brassard, when you are in a rebuild phase other GMs are not going to pony up with fair market value, instead you,ll get rebuild value.

Allthough the 1st will probably be a late 1st, the Sens have been very adept with scouting. I have no doubt that that pick will turn into s 1st liner.

The cool thing is it seems like rebuilds are taking less time than before, you are probably 2 to 3 years away from a younger , more athletic , better team.

Folks enjoy the ride. You have better assets than most rebuilding teams , you are going to be a great team before you can blink an eye.

 

[Gigantor The Goalie]

If you were ever wondering how the team was going to replace Craig Anderson, Filip Gustavsson is as close to a sure bet as you can get not named Demko/Samsonov/Shestyorkin/Sorokin. Gustavsson is in the tier right below them with the Hart's, Soderstrom's, Sandstrom's of the league. When I heard JR was open to trading Gustavsson I was hoping some how the Avs would snag him but alas that didn't happen. Here's my scouting report from him the WJC:

Has a good overall quickness because of his core strength. Edge control was an important part of his game allowing him to get around the crease quickly and giving himself very good positioning. Shows a strong understanding of many aspects of the goaltending position leading to him being very technically sound in his style of play. Sits at a lower/wider stance though not low enough that it makes him vulnerable over the shoulders. Doesn’t play too conservative or too aggressive. Comfortable playing on his knees though is sometimes too comfortable passing up opportunities to get back on his feet to instead stay on his knees. Liked how consistent he is in all aspects of his game. Makes him frustrating to play against when he just sticks to his game and doesn’t allow the opponents to dictate how he plays.

Not afraid to leave his net to play the puck or play the puck in his crease to ensure the play keeps going on. Able to do this because he’s aware of where everyone is on the ice. Puck tracking was solid throughout the tournament which helped significantly in keeping his positioning as good as it was. Would like to see him cut out the times where he drops to his knees in blocking position and stops tracking the puck making him highly vulnerable to any play directly afterwards. Rebound control is good when he’s engaged but allows his focus to wane when not kept busy leading to him not taking shots seriously leading to dangerous rebounds on shots that should be easily directed into non-dangerous areas.

 

[UnHappyDude]

So what's did the trade end up being? Title is wrong on thread

 

[megalomania]

If you were ever wondering how the team was going to replace Craig Anderson, Filip Gustavsson is as close to a sure bet as you can get not named Demko/Samsonov/Shestyorkin/Sorokin. Gustavsson is in the tier right below them with the Hart's, Soderstrom's, Sandstrom's of the league. When I heard JR was open to trading Gustavsson I was hoping some how the Avs would snag him but alas that didn't happen. Here's my scouting report from him the WJC:

Has a good overall quickness because of his core strength. Edge control was an important part of his game allowing him to get around the crease quickly and giving himself very good positioning. Shows a strong understanding of many aspects of the goaltending position leading to him being very technically sound in his style of play. Sits at a lower/wider stance though not low enough that it makes him vulnerable over the shoulders. Doesn’t play too conservative or too aggressive. Comfortable playing on his knees though is sometimes too comfortable passing up opportunities to get back on his feet to instead stay on his knees. Liked how consistent he is in all aspects of his game. Makes him frustrating to play against when he just sticks to his game and doesn’t allow the opponents to dictate how he plays.

Not afraid to leave his net to play the puck or play the puck in his crease to ensure the play keeps going on. Able to do this because he’s aware of where everyone is on the ice. Puck tracking was solid throughout the tournament which helped significantly in keeping his positioning as good as it was. Would like to see him cut out the times where he drops to his knees in blocking position and stops tracking the puck making him highly vulnerable to any play directly afterwards. Rebound control is good when he’s engaged but allows his focus to wane when not kept busy leading to him not taking shots seriously leading to dangerous rebounds on shots that should be easily directed into non-dangerous areas.

Thank you for the detailed report. If you don't mind me asking, how much higher on Gustavsson would you be compared to Hogberg? What's your assessment of him?

 

[BonkTastic]

So what's did the trade end up being? Title is wrong on thread

Vegas is also retaining 40% on Brassard for Pittsburgh.

 

[Gigantor The Goalie]

Thank you for the detailed report. If you don't mind me asking, how much higher on Gustavsson would you be compared to Hogberg? What's your assessment of him?

Unfortunately haven't watched Hogberg so my opinion is purely based on what he's done. However I'm decently high on Hogberg. He's been successful so far in his career and is a legitimate NHL goalie prospect. Gustavsson though is just seeing his game mature and success earlier. Hogberg might make it to the NHL first but Gustavsson has the higher ceiling.

 

[Tundraman]

The 2018 for 2019 3rd swap is an insult. It feels like Rutherford just added that to bully Dorion so all can see that he just face washed the new kid and he didn't fight back. The Pens got the best available centre, didn't give up much from their needs to get him and even though he was already cheap they managed to work in a further 40% 3rd party discount to fit their cap. What was the point of the 3rd swap it was absolutely unnecessary.? There is nothing in it for the Sens. If Rutherford didn't like it I'd have told him I have plan B, C and D ready with someone else so crap or get off the pot! It's embarrassing how easily Dorion caves to give out these extras! It may not seem like much to some but this is the part I hate the most about this deal.

 

[CommonSens]

yeah that isn't how it works at all
Brassard's value is not lower just because Pittsburgh happens to have Crosby and Malkin. Hypothetically, if Nashville was acquiring Karlsson, is his value lower because they have Josi and Subban already? Hopefully you realize how that makes no sense

Actually, value is what somebody pays. Anything else is speculated. Thats the way it works. He had more value here because if our lack of depth.

 

[50 in 07]

Actually, value is what somebody pays. Anything else is speculated. Thats the way it works. He had more value here because if our lack of depth.

Yeah and the value Pittsburgh paid is a 1st, an A+ goalie prospect, and Cole who probably gets a second at minimum. That vastly exceeds what a 3C would return in a trade. You're just talking nonsense now.

 

[UnHappyDude]

Vegas is also retaining 40% on Brassard for Pittsburgh.

Dear God it's worse than I imagined

 

[BonkTastic]

Dear God it's worse than I imagined

Eh... a lot depends on what we get for Cole, to be honest.

 

[CommonSens]

If you read my posts and not just cherry pick parts that suit your narrative I said we got what Brass was worth. As it happened hes slotted as a third line C on Pitt. I wasnt upset at the return. Just surprised at the number of posters that felt the return wasnt good enough.

 

[slamigo]

If trading Brass was THAT complicated, there’s not enough super computers on the planet to facilitate a Karlsson trade.

 

[50 in 07]

If you read my posts and not just cherry pick parts that suit your narrative I said we got what Brass was worth. As it happened hes slotted as a third line C on Pitt. I wasnt upset at the return. Just surprised at the number of posters that felt the return wasnt good enough.

No, what you said was

No, I said he was a third line center because thats the position he'll be in on the team who just traded for him. Thats what his worth depended on, who needed him, and who was going to pay.

Which implies that Pittsburgh paid the price of a 3C because Brassard is going to be playing as a 3C on their team. Pittsburgh paid the price of a 2C because that's what Brassard is and what he's worth, irrespective of who else Pittsburgh has on their team.

 

[UnHappyDude]

Not many GM's pull off a 3way nowadays. Dorion has had 2 since started. Dorion...king of the 3way!

 

[chethejet]

Brassard deal was a good deal for the Pens and the Sens. He was going anyway at some point. Cole will bring assets back and the goalie is behind Murray and Jarry so his future was limited. But Pens were really high on him and GMJR knows goal tending. The key deal is obviously Karlsson and the assets coming back. So unload payroll, future payroll, and the rebuild in a three year deal. Picks, better draft position possibly a lottery pick the following two years makes sense. Plus you still have Hoffman and potentially as Duchesne assets to move. Total rebuild and then for God's sake get a coach who wants his team to play with speed and pace.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Brassard deal was a good deal for the Pens and the Sens. He was going anyway at some point. Cole will bring assets back and the goalie is behind Murray and Jarry so his future was limited. But Pens were really high on him and GMJR knows goal tending. The key deal is obviously Karlsson and the assets coming back. So unload payroll, future payroll, and the rebuild in a three year deal. Picks, better draft position possibly a lottery pick the following two years makes sense. Plus you still have Hoffman and potentially as Duchesne assets to move. Total rebuild and then for God's sake get a coach who wants his team to play with speed and pace.

Colorado potentially has our first next year.

 

[Xspyrit]

What is important to keep in mind here, is that Brassard is going to be 31 y/o next training camp and had only 1 year left on his deal. His next contract AAV will be more costly than his salary (3.5) for 2018-19 and he wouldn't/shouldn't have been part of future plans with Brown, Batherson, White and Chlapik as Center prospects.

Might as well get the best return possible now in a lost season. Like danielpalfredsson noted, Sens would have paid his 2.5 bonus before next season and it would have "forced" the Sens to keep him all year for just a 1.0 salary and finally maybe never trade him if they are in the playoffs race.

If we were making the playoffs this year, then of course Brassard would still be here. But they would have probably traded him at the draft (for an hypothetically lower return)

Dorion swapped thirds because he got who he wanted, while Rutherford was still a bit unsatisfied.

Exactly. Regardless, I don't think it's a big deal. Yes the Sens 3rd in 2018 should be higher (~65th) than the Pens 3rd in 2019 (who knows) but they could still end up with a better prospect than if they had their 3rd (Example, they picked Gagne before Chlapik in 2015). Also, the 2019 draft seems to be deeper, so who knows.

Yes the Pens got Brassard but gave up 2 solid contributors in Cole and Reaves (role player), plus a 1st (even if late), a very good goalie prospect (IMO will be better than Jarry) and a 4th

Yeah maybe a swap of 3rd helped them get over the deal. Dunn and Lindberg don't do much for them.

Look at what they paid to get Reaves

Pittsburgh Penguins acquire	Date	St. Louis Blues acquire
Ryan Reaves 2017 2nd round pick [TBODY] [/TBODY]	June 23, 2017	Oskar Sundqvist 2017 1st round pick [TBODY] [/TBODY]

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

I appreciate the sincere best wishes.
I was not high on getting gustavsson .. I would have liked the 1st + Rust + a prospect like Bellerive.. Make them worry about moving cap pieces to get it done. Rust is not a star but he is a fast effective player that can play somewhere in the lineup now. No Rust.. then Sprong... I know he's had some attitude issues but I would take a chance on him because of his skill .. and we lack that

Assuming the Sens keep Hoffman, Duchene, Stone, Dzingel, Pageau, then you have several of White, Chlapik, Brown, Batherson, Formenton, Gagne, Perron, Luchuk graduating in the next few years AND we are probably going to draft a very good forward in the upcoming draft. I am hoping for one of Zadina, Svechnikov, Tkachuk or Wahlstrom

Not necessarily lines but to give an idea about the future forward group :

Hoffman-Duchene-Stone
Zadina-Brown-Batherson
Dzingel-Chlapik-White
Formenton-Pageau-Gagne
Luchuk/Perron/Nurmi/Paul/Shore/P. Kelly

And more draft picks coming (1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 7th this year and probably more with a few more trades before the deadline)

That's why I think it was more important to get Gustavsson instead of Sprong. Goaltending pipeline was weak and I feel more hopeful now with Gustavsson, Hogberg and Hollett (Daccord + Driedger too but don't have much hope for them).

Would you guys have preferred Sprong + 2nd + Cole?

Because I doubt the Pens give up Sprong + 1st + Cole. Maybe Hunwick instead of Cole.

 

[CommonSens]

No, what you said was

Which implies that Pittsburgh paid the price of a 3C because Brassard is going to be playing as a 3C on their team. Pittsburgh paid the price of a 2C because that's what Brassard is and what he's worth, irrespective of who else Pittsburgh has on their team.

Im not even sure what point you're making.
The return for Brassard was seen by posters here as being too little. I disagreed and said the return fit the fact the hes going to be a 3rd line center on a deep team and thus Pittsburgh paid him as such. His return is based on the need of the team who traded for him. Sure hes arguably a top 6 on most teams but assumably none of those teams made a better offer.
Ar
Are you saying that Pittsburg overpaid?

 

[dumbdick]

This trade is borderline cap circumvention. The retention part of the last CBA was to make bad contracts moveable, not to enable cash for asset deals (or possibly even to scuttle rival Winnipeg?). Thin edge of the wedge here. Wait until a rich team goes into a rebuild and uses this strategy to load up on assets.

 

[Boud]

Yeah and the value Pittsburgh paid is a 1st, an A+ goalie prospect, and Cole who probably gets a second at minimum. That vastly exceeds what a 3C would return in a trade. You're just talking nonsense now.

The return is alright, I have nothing against it but you're overselling this quite a bit.

Gus is a good goalie prospect but certainly not an A+ prospect. He's not at the same level as other guys like Samsonov and etc. He has good value, Carter Hart would be a good comparable as poster above stated. A guy that looks like he could be a starter down the road but it's not a certainty either.

The 1rst is great but keep in mind that it's going to be a 25-30th pick which means that you get approx 50% chance at an NHLer and about 20% that this player plays over 100 NHL games.