Brampton in trouble

[royals119]

UHL, CHL and ECHL were all the same to me. AA hockey is AA hockey and a good AA player will do fine in any of the leagues. Only difference is the "affiliation" nonsense and the vet rule. UHL teams were on the average way older to a degree. That was probably the biggest difference.

Not in terms of talent. When the Mallards were in the UHL, they had players that went to the IHL (back when it was AAA) and saw actual playing time during their stints at that level.

The UHL was legitimate AA-level hockey. Some players were much better than others, but the good ones would earn call-ups to AAA periodically.

I would agree that the UHL was a lot better than the FHL, but I think there was a "half-step" between the ECHL and the UHL/CHL. Some of the top UHL players could make the jump to the AHL/oldIHL, particularly in the earlier years. However, over the last 5-10 years we had a number of players come from the UHL or CHL to the Royals (ECHL) and vice versa. Third liners who were sometimes getting healthy scratched because there were more talented players on the Royals roster became first liners in the other leagues, and first line players from the other leagues would come to the Royals and end up on the third line or cut.

 

[GindyDraws]

Add in the fact that the CHL was desperate to add teams at the time, with Colorado and Ft. Wayne already gone and rumors swirling about other teams leaving. The CHL would have put a team in Hawaii if there was an owner stupid enough to try it.

So they were a lot like the Continental Basketball Association, which in their day, actually had teams in Alaska, Hawaii, and Mexico City (though not at once).

 

[210]

So they were a lot like the Continental Basketball Association, which in their day, actually had teams in Alaska, Hawaii, and Mexico City (though not at once).

And Puerto Rico...

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

I would agree that the UHL was a lot better than the FHL, but I think there was a "half-step" between the ECHL and the UHL/CHL. Some of the top UHL players could make the jump to the AHL/oldIHL, particularly in the earlier years. However, over the last 5-10 years we had a number of players come from the UHL or CHL to the Royals (ECHL) and vice versa. Third liners who were sometimes getting healthy scratched because there were more talented players on the Royals roster became first liners in the other leagues, and first line players from the other leagues would come to the Royals and end up on the third line or cut.

I'll throw out a name who used to play for Muskegon. Todd Robinson for an example. Guy was awesome for them but he was also(I would guess)a top line player. In the ECHL he wouldn't be because he was older. I dong think its necessarily you're a better player in this league and at the moment I think its more of a numbers game and you're a younger guy and a "prospect" so you have more value versus the vet who will never play on my NHL team.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

So they were a lot like the Continental Basketball Association, which in their day, actually had teams in Alaska, Hawaii, and Mexico City (though not at once).

Well it was also weird because you had the "IHL" teams and then a lot of the CHL teams as I understood it were kind of backed by something called Global. Definitely I guess a unique situation I guess I'd say. So they tried to keep the league afloat all they could.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

A pretty good description of the current ECHL...

Can't recall anyone making the NHL. Don't recall too many callups. I know the jackals had a couple of guys called up to the ahl but it wasn't like the potential of now where if they go up they might never come back.

 

[210]

Can't recall anyone making the NHL. Don't recall too many callups. I know the jackals had a couple of guys called up to the ahl but it wasn't like the potential of now where if they go up they might never come back.

I would reply, but it would take a significant amount of time to list all the ECHL players that became AHL regulars (never mind just got an AHL call up), and just this season there were 74 former ECHL players/coaches on NHL rosters.

 

[Canucks21]

Not in terms of talent. When the Mallards were in the UHL, they had players that went to the IHL (back when it was AAA) and saw actual playing time during their stints at that level.

The UHL was legitimate AA-level hockey. Some players were much better than others, but the good ones would earn call-ups to AAA periodically.

any reason why the UHL didnt worked?

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

any reason why the UHL didnt worked?

Part of the country it was in. The northeast teams minus Elmira ended up in trouble. Adirondack couldn't secure a lease and the mob squad in Danbury got busted. They had a year with Elmira and the rest all Midwest teams. They wanted a Midwest bus league. Elmira went to the E and the league became the IHL and Chicago folded after 07. The Michigan teams not named Muskegon were in financial ruin. The recession probably didn't help.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

I would reply, but it would take a significant amount of time to list all the ECHL players that became AHL regulars (never mind just got an AHL call up), and just this season there were 74 former ECHL players/coaches on NHL rosters.

Was talking about the U days to now.

 

[SemireliableSource]

There wasn't. It was in the UHL(though basically equivalent)with the Chicago Hounds.

Wrong again. The Chicago Express were in the ECHL but on lasted one season, 2011-12.

Simple research, bud.

 

[210]

Wrong again. The Chicago Express were in the ECHL but on lasted one season, 2011-12.

Simple research, bud.

I hate to defend Sports Enthusiast, but you've misunderstood what was being said.

The Chicago Express is the singular ECHL team that has failed in Chicago in relation to a post that claimed two ECHL teams failed there. Sports Enthusiast noted the other recent minor league hockey team that failed in Chicago was the Hounds of the UHL.

 

[GindyDraws]

Part of the country it was in. The northeast teams minus Elmira ended up in trouble. Adirondack couldn't secure a lease and the mob squad in Danbury got busted. They had a year with Elmira and the rest all Midwest teams. They wanted a Midwest bus league. Elmira went to the E and the league became the IHL and Chicago folded after 07. The Michigan teams not named Muskegon were in financial ruin. The recession probably didn't help.

Pretty much this. At one point, the UHL had quite a stronghold from upstate New York all the way to Missouri. Then the league went kaput.

You know, I know we tend to go off-topic, but I do miss the original IHL.

 

[SemireliableSource]

Welp. My bad, guys. That what I get for skimming.

 

[crimsonace]

Pretty much this. At one point, the UHL had quite a stronghold from upstate New York all the way to Missouri. Then the league went kaput.

You know, I know we tend to go off-topic, but I do miss the original IHL.

UHL, like just about every independent minor pro league, didn't survive the recession. It was in a lot of very small Midwestern markets, and some of the better ones (Quad City, for example) or more stable ones (Kalamazoo) ended up moving into other leagues, or lower-cost leagues (hi, Bloomington). It lost a little bit of its focus when it began spreading into the northeast (AHL territory) and the southeast (ECHL/and for a while, CHL country). It allowed a LOT of vets (9, IIRC), which means costs tended to be higher, and there's no NHL/AHL team to help supply 3-4 players or help with marketing. By the end, Fort Wayne was basically propping up half the league (while trying to seize the history of the original IHL at the same time).

It and the CHL - another league where many of the teams at the time were owned by the Global arena company that was basically the backbone behind the old WPHL that merged into the CHL in 2001 - eventually merged, but that league obviously was not long for the world either. The old southeastern markets that got abandoned by the CHL eventually resurfaced in the SPHL, but that is a much lower-cost league than the old CHL or UHL were. Salary cap is barely over half the ECHL's.

The ECHL has the DNA of the WCHL, CHL, WPHL & UHL in it. Pretty impressive.

I loved the original IHL. Hated that it basically killed itself by trying to be a very expensive AAAA independent league that couldn't stay afloat outside of a couple of cities. Most of those cities/names/teams that didn't make it have resurfaced in the ECHL, but the original IHL, especially from about 1985-97, was a great league.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

Pretty much this. At one point, the UHL had quite a stronghold from upstate New York all the way to Missouri. Then the league went kaput.

You know, I know we tend to go off-topic, but I do miss the original IHL.

UHL had some northeast teams at one point before just Adirondack, Danbury and Elmira. Before Danbury they had the BC Icemen, New Haven Knights and a team called the Mohawk Valley Prowlers.

Man this stuff really makes you realize just how much the landscape has changed the last 10+ years.

 

[Scoutin1]

UHL folded with some teams joining the CHL, who then later merged with the ECHL. I guess by default that makes the UHL and ECHL somewhat equal.

That would be true only if you've never seen any games in either league.

 

[Scoutin1]

UHL, CHL and ECHL were all the same to me. AA hockey is AA hockey and a good AA player will do fine in any of the leagues. Only difference is the "affiliation" nonsense and the vet rule. UHL teams were on the average way older to a degree. That was probably the biggest difference.

So what you're admitting is that you know little of any of those leagues. I read you lima charlie.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

So what you're admitting is that you know little of any of those leagues. I read you lima charlie.

I've seen them all. Only difference is the affiliation game and in the ECHL a veteran who could dominate at this level will see his role reduced because he's "over the hill" and of no value to the organization you're affiliated with. The goal in the ECHL sadly isn't about winning.

 

[Scoutin1]

I've seen them all. Only difference is the affiliation game and in the ECHL a veteran who could dominate at this level will see his role reduced because he's "over the hill" and of no value to the organization you're affiliated with. The goal in the ECHL sadly isn't about winning.

I agree with you that the ECHL isn't about winning -- it's about the perception of "development", but the best UHL or CHL teams couldn't hang with the ECHL. The E was just young and too fast for the older vets in the U or C. I saw it; it wasn't even close. As a Komet fan I saw a dominate team in the CHL that couldn't hang with the young, fast pups in the E. It's just the way it was....

 

[Clinton Comets EHL]

I agree with you that the ECHL isn't about winning -- it's about the perception of "development", but the best UHL or CHL teams couldn't hang with the ECHL. The E was just young and too fast for the older vets in the U or C. I saw it; it wasn't even close. As a Komet fan I saw a dominate team in the CHL that couldn't hang with the young, fast pups in the E. It's just the way it was....

I disagree. Thought the talent level was equal or close....I saw it as well.

As I've said before, I always thought the ENTERTAINMENT value was much better in the CoHL / UHL / IHL2 than the E.

The E survived because it's business plan...although seriously flawed...still....was better than the others. There is no question the UHL was much more entertaining.

 

[Scoutin1]

I disagree. Thought the talent level was equal or close....I saw it as well.

As I've said before, I always thought the ENTERTAINMENT value was much better in the CoHL / UHL / IHL2 than the E.

The E survived because it's business plan...although seriously flawed...still....was better than the others. There is no question the UHL was much more entertaining.

Ok, but I watched a Komet team roll to a CHL title and then the next season look woefully mediocre in the E with nearly the same team. I saw it, it was ugly. With regard to entertainment, I don't think I'd necessarily disagree; but with regard to play on the ice, there was a serious gap in the play.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

I agree with you that the ECHL isn't about winning -- it's about the perception of "development", but the best UHL or CHL teams couldn't hang with the ECHL. The E was just young and too fast for the older vets in the U or C. I saw it; it wasn't even close. As a Komet fan I saw a dominate team in the CHL that couldn't hang with the young, fast pups in the E. It's just the way it was....

Fort Wayne has turned a corner it appears. Good team this year. I think they overplayed their hand and thought they could just bring in their loyal guys from the IHL/CHL and it would work. Chemistry can be important but yeah an old guy like a Collin Chaulk is gunna get skated right around in this league. I guess from a defensive standpoint that would be huge but on offense they still might be able to produce their points. I guess I was talking from an offensive standpoint

 

[Scoutin1]

Fort Wayne has turned a corner it appears. Good team this year. I think they overplayed their hand and thought they could just bring in their loyal guys from the IHL/CHL and it would work. Chemistry can be important but yeah an old guy like a Collin Chaulk is gunna get skated right around in this league. I guess from a defensive standpoint that would be huge but on offense they still might be able to produce their points. I guess I was talking from an offensive standpoint

I agree with you that the K's front office thought the UHL/CHL/IHLv2 model would work in the ECHL. But it took them all of one season to learn that it wouldn't. The K's have done a nice job adapting to their new development model -- they had a solid team last year. In any event, it is what it is; all teams in the E are faced with the same issues.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

I agree with you that the K's front office thought the UHL/CHL/IHLv2 model would work in the ECHL. But it took them all of one season to learn that it wouldn't. The K's have done a nice job adapting to their new development model -- they had a solid team last year. In any event, it is what it is; all teams in the E are faced with the same issues.

I suppose though teams like Elmira, Reading and Adirondack do get poached more than the rest because they have so many AHL teams within their vicinity and its easy to get them there. Now with a team in Manchester and soon Worcester that may help things a bit maybe.