OT: Boxing Thread

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Golovkin called out Ward. At 168. A lot. Golovkin did this, not Ward. Ward finally showed interest after squaring away his (own doing) promotional difficulties, and then Golovkin changed his tune to 164, a weight that Ward most likely can't make. You see nothing wrong with this?

For all the "leverage" talk (it took you three pages to start sounding like a member of Team Mayweather), Andre Ward is the biggest name Golovkin would have ever faced. By a huge margin. So in comparison to the mythical matches that will never happen (Mayweather and Cotto), Ward brings less money in, yes. But in comparison to the reality of who Golovkin actually fights, Ward brings in the most money. Golovkin faces unknown (in America) European fighters, and unknown (everywhere) fighters like Willie Monroe Jr. Andre Ward is a superstar compared to that sorry group. He's also (by far) the biggest fight Golovkin can make in 2015. Every other bigger named fighter is booked in 2015. Golovkin (supposedly) wants big fights. Well this would be his biggest one, and could be signed already, but 164, a demand they knew would end negotiations. This isn't a money demand, something that is flexible. This isn't about "leverage." They're asking for something that physically might not be possible to do. Because they know they will lose at 168.

In related Golovkin-is-not-the-man-the-internet-wants-him-to-be, news. Golovkin's coach is now dismissing Lara as an opponent. So two pages ago, the narrative here was "nobody wants to face Golovkin." I never bought this, as I've seen this show many times before. Well in the past week, we've seen Team Golovkin negotiate themselves out of a Ward fight, and outright decline a fight against Lara (who is still calling him out), so that narrative is confirmed to be ********. Lara "not doing enough to prove himself," is hilarious, considering they voluntarily fought Willie Monroe Jr. two months ago, and Canelo, their new white whale, thought enough of Lara to fight him on Pay Per View. So the argument is changing from fear ("everybody is scared!1"), to not big enough fights (while they continue to fight bums instead). The Golovkin lie evolves.

Im curious to see what your tune will be like when Golovkin gets into the ring with the big name (and he will, eventually), and destroys them.

I think Ward vs. Golovkin would be an excellent fight, but I think GGG and his absurd power takes it.

 

[Zamboner]

Im curious to see what your tune will be like when Golovkin gets into the ring with the big name

I'll be happy. That's all I want to see.

and destroys them.

I'll give him his props. I love boxing. I'm not really a fan of anybody, so I'm hard on them when they do nothing, and give them props when they do (isn't that logical?).

What is your tune like now when it comes to Golovkin's people? You were buying hook, line and sinker that everybody was "afraid." Here's two fights not happening that are his team's doing.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

I'll be happy. That's all I want to see.


I'll give him his props. I love boxing. I'm not really a fan of anybody, so I'm hard on them when they do nothing, and give them props when they do (isn't that logical?).

What is your tune like now when it comes to Golovkin's people? You were buying hook, line and sinker that everybody was "afraid." Here's two fights not happening that are his team's doing.

Well billy joe Saunders said "I'll fight anyone at 160, besides Golovkin" and froch said "swerve Golovkin like the plague, he punches like a mule. You don't need that in your life"... So people are afraid.

As for Lara, what the hell is your obsession with him? He is like 20-2... I don't see how he deserves a guy on the verge of stardom anymore. He had his chance vs Canelo and at the end of the day he lost. No if and or buts. He lost his chance in the foreseeable future.

As for Ward, considering how his popularity plummeted, a 50/50 financial split is INSANELY generous. Golovkin is coming down for the guys he wants to fight. If Ward wants it he should come down, the same way Golovkin is willing for Floyd and Saul.

The two will fight eventually. And if Golovkin's star peaks with wins over Lemieux and Canelo, Ward has even less leverage.

Golovkin said he was willing to come to 168 for Froch and Chavez. Chavez was a fight that was guaranteeing 25 million dollars for all parties. Chavez alone was guaranteed 7m to get in the ring with Golovkin. Froch was going to sell out Wembley and provide a lot of PPV sells. Ward isn't worth that.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I'll be happy. That's all I want to see.


I'll give him his props. I love boxing. I'm not really a fan of anybody, so I'm hard on them when they do nothing, and give them props when they do (isn't that logical?).

What is your tune like now when it comes to Golovkin's people? You were buying hook, line and sinker that everybody was "afraid." Here's two fights not happening that are his team's doing.

I certainly dont think everyone is afraid, but Cotto, Froch, and JCC Jr are 3 guys that have run to the hills at the mere mention of Golovkin's name.

I don't think Ward is scared, but this is a guy who continually has an inflated stance of where he stands with the boxing public. He is just making his way back from being an afterthought, which is a shame because he should've been on his way to superstardom after the Super Six. The fight with GGG needs to marinate for a while. This posturing is all part of the dance - its not because either guy is scared of the other.

GGG is likely fighting Lemieux in the fall. Thats a good, exciting fight. Then Im sure he'll be lobbying for the Cotto/Canelo winner. We'll see if one of them step up to the plate. Then Ward (this is assuming he stays busy and doesn't find some other reason to stay out of the ring)

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

I certainly dont think everyone is afraid, but Cotto, Froch, and JCC Jr are 3 guys that have run to the hills at the mere mention of Golovkin's name.

I don't think Ward is scared, but this is a guy who continually has an inflated stance of where he stands with the boxing public. He is just making his way back from being an afterthought, which is a shame because he should've been on his way to superstardom after the Super Six. The fight with GGG needs to marinate for a while. This posturing is all part of the dance - its not because either guy is scared of the other.

GGG is likely fighting Lemieux in the fall. Thats a good, exciting fight. Then Im sure he'll be lobbying for the Cotto/Canelo winner. We'll see if one of them step up to the plate. Then Ward (this is assuming he stays busy and doesn't find some other reason to stay out of the ring)

I'm guessing:

Lemieux in October
Johnson/Lee tune up before Canelo in Jan/Feb. Lee if he beats Saunders as a unification fight. Johnson as a mandatory if he beats Lemieux. Which I think he will.
Canelo in May/June.
Ward in September/October '16.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Dan Rafael floated Pacquiao vs. Lucas Matthysse as a fight that could possibly be made upon Pac's return. That would be an unbelievable action fight, and I'd love to see it.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Dan Rafael floated Pacquiao vs. Lucas Matthysse as a fight that could possibly be made upon Pac's return. That would be an unbelievable action fight, and I'd love to see it.

Matthysse was on the undercard of Canelo-Mayweather. ****ing awesome fighter.

If we're going down even more in weight about exciting match ups in the future, Rigonedeaux/Lomanchenko.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Matthysse was on the undercard of Canelo-Mayweather. ****ing awesome fighter.

If we're going down even more in weight about exciting match ups in the future, Rigonedeaux/Lomanchenko.

I like unapologetic come forward guys - GGG and Matthysse are probably my two favorite today (used to be Pacquiao but hes slipped over the last few years).

Matthysse would've won that Danny Garcia fight in 2013 had he not been blinded. He took a pound of flesh from Garcia, who hasnt been the same fighter since. Matthyssee's bout with Provodnikov has to be the leader so far for 2015 fight of the year.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

I like unapologetic come forward guys - GGG and Matthysse are probably my two favorite today (used to be Pacquiao but hes slipped over the last few years).

Matthysse would've won that Danny Garcia fight in 2013 had he not been blinded. He took a pound of flesh from Garcia, who hasnt been the same fighter since. Matthyssee's bout with Provodnikov has to be the leader so far for 2015 fight of the year.

Yep. I like all out wars. Kovalev Mohammedi should be just that until Mohammedi gets KOed, later tonight.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Ive never seen Mohammedi fight, but Ill watch.

HBO puts on good shows. The Kovalev vs. Pascal fight was excellent and Pascal is on the undercard tonight. Solid slate.

Had high hopes for the PBC, but outside of a handful of fights, its been pretty awful. Basically come watch Haymon's guys fight plumbers.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Ive never seen Mohammedi fight, but Ill watch.

HBO puts on good shows. The Kovalev vs. Pascal fight was excellent and Pascal is on the undercard tonight. Solid slate.

Had high hopes for the PBC, but outside of a handful of fights, its been pretty awful. Basically come watch Haymon's guys fight plumbers.

Mohammedi has potential, but never realized it. From the fights i've seen him in, he isn't one to slink and try and clench or run away. He'll fight till he is dropped or drops someone.

He now is trained by GGG's trainer. He should perform better than he historically has, but I don't give him much of a shot. Kovalev is an absolute monster in the ring.

BTW, looks like Mayweather changed his tune. He is still fighting Berto, but now wants the fight on PPV. Mayweather does what Mayweather wants.

I hope no one buys that ****. ****ing thief.

 

[Zamboner]

As for Lara, what the hell is your obsession with him? He is like 20-2... I don't see how he deserves a guy on the verge of stardom anymore. He had his chance vs Canelo and at the end of the day he lost. No if and or buts. He lost his chance in the foreseeable future.

I'm actually not a Lara fan, really. I think he is very good, but too defensive to be great. I bring him up because he's been calling out Golovkin for over a year which goes against the narrative that "nobody wants to face Golovkin," and he also happens to better than anybody Golovkin has faced too. So it's not a great fight, by any means, and I'm pretty sure Lara would lose on the cards, but he's a much better fighter than Lemieux, and everybody else Golovkin has faced, so it would've been progress of sorts. I mean, everyone wants Golovkin-Cotto, but they seem to forget that Cotto couldn't beat Trout, and Trout couldn't win a round against Lara. Golovkin's competition is terrible. I want to see it get better. A fight against Lara would be that, and Lara wants it, so it seems like a no-brainer to me.

As for Ward, considering how his popularity plummeted, a 50/50 financial split is INSANELY generous. Golovkin is coming down for the guys he wants to fight.

First of all, we don't know that Golovkin is doing anything. He claims he would go down in weight, but he also claimed he would face Ward at 168 for a year. Nothing they say is to be believed.

If Ward wants it he should come down, the same way Golovkin is willing for Floyd and Saul.

I don't think Ward can move down. If 168 was easy for him to make, he wouldn't have just fought at 172. 164 might be impossible for him. It's been nine years since he's been that low. That demand reeks of trying to win the fight on the scales, which is so incredibly lame. Mr. "I'll Fight Anybody 154-168" changes his tune the second the best 168 pounder calls his bluff.

Golovkin said he was willing to come to 168 for Froch and Chavez. Chavez was a fight that was guaranteeing 25 million dollars for all parties. Chavez alone was guaranteed 7m to get in the ring with Golovkin. Froch was going to sell out Wembley and provide a lot of PPV sells. Ward isn't worth that.

You sound like Floyd Mayweather's fans.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

I'm actually not a Lara fan, really. I think he is very good, but too defensive to be great. I bring him up because he's been calling out Golovkin for over a year which goes against the narrative that "nobody wants to face Golovkin," and he also happens to better than anybody Golovkin has faced too. So it's not a great fight, by any means, and I'm pretty sure Lara would lose on the cards, but he's a much better fighter than Lemieux, and everybody else Golovkin has faced, so it would've been progress of sorts. I mean, everyone wants Golovkin-Cotto, but they seem to forget that Cotto couldn't beat Trout, and Trout couldn't win a round against Lara. Golovkin's competition is terrible. I want to see it get better. A fight against Lara would be that, and Lara wants it, so it seems like a no-brainer to me.


First of all, we don't know that Golovkin is doing anything. He claims he would go down in weight, but he also claimed he would face Ward at 168 for a year. Nothing they say is to be believed.


I don't think Ward can move down. If 168 was easy for him to make, he wouldn't have just fought at 172. 164 might be impossible for him. It's been nine years since he's been that low. That demand reeks of trying to win the fight on the scales, which is so incredibly lame. Mr. "I'll Fight Anybody 154-168" changes his tune the second the best 168 pounder calls his bluff.


You sound like Floyd Mayweather's fans.

Lara doesn't hold a 160 belt like Lemieux does. He isn't as marketable as Lemieux. And I don't think he has any chance, while Lemieux at least has a punchers chance.

In terms of $$, i'm just talking about why Golovkin is asking Ward to come down and why Ward is acting like an entitled brat.

 

[Zamboner]

If anything, Golovkin is acting entitled. With all the shots you take at Mayweather, I find it difficult to understand how you rationalize Golovkin pulling a Mayweather move like this on Ward. He's asking Ward to do something Ward can't do. How is Ward entitled? I imagine the "generous" 50/50 split is because they knew Ward would never except 164. Because he can't. Offer Ward an even more generous 90% of the split at 162, he's even less likely to take it. Making a 164 offer is saying we don't want the fight. And Ward is by far the best fight they could make in 2015. I find it hard to believe you'd let anybody else slide on this.

And Lemieux has no chance. That wild left hook he throws will get his own head taken off in two rounds tops. It's another easy fight, which is why they're taking it.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Golovkin vs. Lemieux is set. October 17th at the Garden.

Its also on PPV, which is BS.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

If anything, Golovkin is acting entitled. With all the shots you take at Mayweather, I find it difficult to understand how you rationalize Golovkin pulling a Mayweather move like this on Ward. He's asking Ward to do something Ward can't do. How is Ward entitled? I imagine the "generous" 50/50 split is because they knew Ward would never except 164. Because he can't. Offer Ward an even more generous 90% of the split at 162, he's even less likely to take it. Making a 164 offer is saying we don't want the fight. And Ward is by far the best fight they could make in 2015. I find it hard to believe you'd let anybody else slide on this.

And Lemieux has no chance. That wild left hook he throws will get his own head taken off in two rounds tops. It's another easy fight, which is why they're taking it.

I'm perfectly fine for there being a catch weight for Rigo and Loman.

I'm perfectly fine for there being a catch weight between Canelo and Floyd.

I'm perfectly fine for there being a catch weight between Kovalev and Ward.

Not everyone fights in the same division. Some people are two divisions apart. I want to see the best fights. Period.

If Ward can't get down to 168 anymore, that's his own fault. No one else's. He called out Golovkin publicly, too. He wants it as badly, there need to be concessions from him, as well. He is the less popular guy. He brings less to the table. Usually the problem between getting a fight to happen is something like split, or gloves, or blood testing. What not. If two fighters want a fight to happen, a catch weight is almost always agreed upon.

Perfect example, Canelo vs. Floyd. http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/i...z-easily-make-weight-ahead-saturday-megafight

Eventually, Canelo agreed to a catch weight 2 pounds beneath what he was used to fighting. Canelo took $5m base purse from that fight. Floyd took 41.5m base purse off that fight. How lopsided do you think the PPV split was?

Conversely, Floyd took 32m to fight Cotto while Cotto took 8m. I'm pretty sure I remember hearing the PPV split for that ended up being 60-40 for Floyd, after all was said and done.

Canelo came down in weight and in terms of split so he could fight a more popular, and potentially better, fighter.

Why would Ward have to do any differently?

More popular guys get demands met. Floyd asked for Canelo to come to 147. 5 pound difference after all was said and done.

If Golovkin settles at 165, that 50/50 split is still generous. What the hell are you even on about? This is how the sport works. Ward has to sacrifice more. Golovkin is about to fight at Madison Square Garden. The first time he will ever make it to the big room. Michael Woods has an article out saying that if you fight at the big room at MSG you've officially made it. Golovkin is driving that fight. Who the hell knows David Lemieux besides his fans in Montreal and boxing heads? Golovkin will sell out MSG. His PPV #'s may be underwhelming, and mind you I can't believe that they'll try to sell such a fight on PPV, but his popularity is skyrocketing. ESPN segment. Huge fan base in California and Europe. A lot of people are beginning to take notice.

Who is going to generate the money for both boxers? Ward or Golovkin? I'm not talking like a Mayweather fan. Mayweather fans ***** and whine any time a guy who has the chance of beating him is making headlines to fight Floyd. I want to see Golovkin Ward. I want to see Golovkin Kovalev. These fights need to happen. But why should Ward be allowed to stay in his division while Golovkin has to concede to go up?

I wanted Floyd and Golovkin to fight, too. Everyone that wants to see that fight wanted both fighters to concede and meet at a middle point so the fight can happen.

The same would have to happen between Golovkin and Kovalev.

Please tell me why you absolve Ward to the same boxing guidelines that every other boxer has to adhere to? Because he has gotten out of shape in his 3 years off and now can't make his own weight class? ********.

Again, what is he going to bring to the table that requires Golovkin to meet him at his weight class? A belt? Golovkin might have 3 160 pd belts by the time he fights Ward. If Canelo beats Cotto and Golovkin beats Canelo he'll become a top 3 most popular boxer in the world. Everyone will know about him.

Ward might not even have the 168 belt if Degale doesn't have to fight him. Money? Who can Ward even fight anymore that will boost his popularity and ratings? Just Degale. And if he's "having trouble even making 168", he'll never become a mandatory challenger and Degale can swerve him for as long as he wants. So he'll be fighting nobody's for a year? I'm sure that'll really revamp his image.

Lol.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Ayooooooo

 

[Zamboner]

Golovkin-Geale was in the big room. I was at that fight.

To compare Canelo cutting two pounds for Mayweather and Ward cutting four against Golovkin is asinine. Canelo was fighting at that weight two years prior. Ward hasn't fought the weight Golovkin demanded in nine. That's a significant difference. And you know what? Those two pounds even affected Canelo.

It's not about Ward getting out of shape. Your body just can't physically make the same weight at 30 that it could at 20. If 168 wasn't a chore for Ward, he would have fought there in his comeback fight. He didn't. That means 164 is impossible.

I honestly can't believe that the self-righteous Golovkin fans, who blasted everybody for not fighting him, have no problem with Golovkin challenging Ward at 168 (and the entire division), for two years, and then saying 164 at the last minute when Ward showed interest. This is so transparently a duck.

May 2013: "I’ll fight anyone from 154-168.â€
Except Ward, I guess.

June 2013: "I would fight Ward at 168."
Oh, no. Ward too.

June 2014: "I'll fight at 168 for a PPV fight."
If Lemieux is a PPV fight, Ward certainly would be one too.

June 2015: Golovkin shreds Ward.

Golovkin: "When I say that I am ready to fight any middleweight and that I am ready to move up to 168 for a big fight, then I'll put my money where my mouth is. As a true man you are dead to me."

The "true man" Golovkin, demands 164 two weeks later when the fight looks realistic for the first time.

Duck. And for what?

Ayooooooo

Another easy fight. And this one comes with a trinket, which means more mandatory challengers, which means no live body for Golovkin until (at least) next summer. And then that potential live body has to negotiate with "Money" Golovkin.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

I'll respond to that tmrw. But damn this Pascal fight is sick so far.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I'll respond to that tmrw. But damn this Pascal fight is sick so far.

Great action - hope Gonzalez doesnt get robbed

Edit: And this is why I hate boxing

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Great action - hope Gonzalez doesnt get robbed

Edit: And this is why I hate boxing

Poor guy. I thought Gonzalez was better, but that's how boxing has been, to beat an incumbent you clearly need to dominate. Gonzalez slowed down significantly middle to end of that fight.

Tore me up seeing him weep. The judges tore his dream away from him. He did enough to win a fight but not enough to hear a popular incumbent. And I really think that compubox skews so many judges.

He should get more fights from this though. He will be back. He's better than these guys and anyone else other than superhuman punch eater Jean Pascal and they are KOed.

 

[RempireStateBuilding]

Poor guy. I thought Gonzalez was better, but that's how boxing has been, to beat an incumbent you clearly need to dominate. Gonzalez slowed down significantly middle to end of that fight.

Tore me up seeing him weep. The judges tore his dream away from him. He did enough to win a fight but not enough to hear a popular incumbent. And I really think that compubox skews so many judges.

He should get more fights from this though. He will be back. He's better than these guys and anyone else other than superhuman punch eater Jean Pascal and they are KOed.

I don't think Gonzalez slowed down significantly. He definitely wasn't as active in later rounds as he was in earlier rounds but he wasn't/didn't show being hurt by any of Pascal's punches and was still dishing out some huge shots while eating anything Pascal landed. Pascal did land some enormous shots in the second half of the fight, could have been what swayed the judges. Really hope to see more of Gonzalez though, he was a monster.

And Kovalev was just playing with his food. The announcers kept saying Mohammedi's awkwardness might help him throw Kovalev off, but Mohammedi just looked terrified.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

GGG weighed in at 159 his last fight. Andre Ward at 172.

The real discussion should be Ward vs. Kovalev who are within a couple pounds of each other at this point.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

GGG weighed in at 159 his last fight. Andre Ward at 172.

The real discussion should be Ward vs. Kovalev who are within a couple pounds of each other at this point.

After watching Kovalev last night, I really don't see Ward beating him.

Ward would fare better vs. GGG.

Kovalev vs. golovkin and that would be a boxers dream. Kovalev, like Golovkin, is getting better with each fight. Vs. pascal, I didn't see Kovalev go to the body. Much more focused on that last night.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Kovalev-berbetbiev Nov 28 in Moscow.

More fireworks. Wowza.