Player Discussion BoJesus-Jangles Horvat

[Fatass]

Yup. And I really hope you're right. I would love to see the aftermath of this.

Mind you, what will likely happen if this does occur is you'll have the usual suspects start to trash Horvat's defense, saying he was overrated and wasn't worth the money, and that Benning is doing a good job building for the future getting a bunch of draft picks for him.

If we lost Bo to an offer sheet the compensation would (likely) be pretty bad. JB would get pitchforked out of town, and deservedly so.

 

[y2kcanucks]

If we lost Bo to an offer sheet the compensation would (likely) be pretty bad. JB would get pitchforked out of town, and deservedly so.

I doubt it. With all that I've seen people post, on here and off site, his supporters will find a way to justify it and praise him anyway. You'll also see people assassinating Bo's character. "He didn't want to win, he didn't want to play the right way, he didn't want to earn his keep, blah blah blah."

 

[topched88]

Yup. And I really hope you're right. I would love to see the aftermath of this.

Mind you, what will likely happen if this does occur is you'll have the usual suspects start to trash Horvat's defense, saying he was overrated and wasn't worth the money, and that Benning is doing a good job building for the future getting a bunch of draft picks for him.

I dont see how as a legitimate fan of this team you could hope to lose horvat for draft picks. we dont have to lose horvat for benning to get fired.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

I kind of doubt Meehan will accept the deals being offered up in this thread. He's known to be a grinder in negotiations. The deal that finally gets it done will be the one that has everybody here hopping mad at Benning. I just hope it's over soon.

And I'm glad it's not my money, of course.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I dont see how as a legitimate fan of this team you could hope to lose horvat for draft picks. we dont have to lose horvat for benning to get fired.

Because those who have supported this management regime deserve it. That's why.

And I'm hopeful that it will expedite the management purge. I don't know how much longer I can take more of the Linden/Benning/Weisbrod BS. This is going to be a very hard season. If they do improve by 10 points I don't want to risk them getting yet another year.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I kind of doubt Meehan will accept the deals being offered up in this thread. He's known to be a grinder in negotiations. The deal that finally gets it done will be the one that has everybody here hopping mad at Benning. I just hope it's over soon.

And I'm glad it's not my money, of course.

If it is a bridge deal, watch it be one that has Horvat making at least $6M in the final year, so that his next QO will be at that amount. Either way, Benning is going to get taken to the cleaners here, just like in everything he does.

 

[Fatass]

I doubt it. With all that I've seen people post, on here and off site, his supporters will find a way to justify it and praise him anyway. You'll also see people assassinating Bo's character. "He didn't want to win, he didn't want to play the right way, he didn't want to earn his keep, blah blah blah."

Love Bo, and would want JB gone if he messes up with this one.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Love Bo, and would want JB gone if he messes up with this one.

The likelihood of an offer sheet is still very low, but I'm hoping it happens. Even if we end up matching, I'd rather someone else's GM works out the contract with Bo than our own, for fear of our own screwing it up.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

If it is a bridge deal, watch it be one that has Horvat making at least $6M in the final year, so that his next QO will be at that amount. Either way, Benning is going to get taken to the cleaners here, just like in everything he does.

I agree that whatever kind of deal it turns out to be it's going to be for absolute top dollar. Meehan isn't going to give ol' Jimmy a break because he's a good old boy or anything like that. Bo is getting a **** pot full of money or he ain't signing. I'm getting ready for figure that burns everybody's britches here. At least Burkie isn't around threatening to drive Bo to the airport. It's not a wonderful situation but could be worse.

 

[Knight53]

They couldn't be more happier giving Trash like Eriksson and Sutter 6 year deals but aren't sold on Horvat, there best young player, long term yet..... WOW

It better be 6-8 years. It shouldn't take more than 5.75 million per year.

This offseason is already a **** off with Garbage like Gagner, Vanek, Burmistrov, del Zaster joining the already unwatchable roster.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

I think any time you have a very conservative, very old school management team like Linden/Benning going up against an aggressive shark like Meehan you have potential for poor communication and misunderstanding between the parties that could come to loggerheads and stalemate well into camp and beyond. Benning/Linden may not understand what fair top dollar for Horvat really is circa 2017 and you know Meehan isn't accepting a penny less than that. And it's tricky to get a handle on because the figure for comparable star players seems to be climbing substantially every year. I know I won't be holding my breath waiting for this to get done. You would like to think that they didn't give Vanek some of Horvat's money, let's hope they're at least in the right ballpark by now.

 

[iFan]

Canucks build Horvat up as the future and next captain but can't commit to a long term deal with him... but they have no issues signing an injury prone, older and declining Ericksson to a big long term deal... it's a joke, a horrible one that I can't wait till it's over.

 

[lawrence]

I hope they can use Wennberg's salary as a negotiating leverage.

Wennberg
59 points in 80 games. 1st rounder 2013 14th overall 4.9 Million 6 years

Horvat
52 points in 81 games. 1st rounder 2013 9th overall ??? million ? years?

 

[MikeK]

Canucks build Horvat up as the future and next captain but can't commit to a long term deal with him... but they have no issues signing an injury prone, older and declining Ericksson to a big long term deal... it's a joke, a horrible one that I can't wait till it's over.

Right? It's embarrassing and I'm sick of it as well. I can't wait for new management. I just hope we get somebody with some experience and backbone who'll be able to call the shots. Anyway, can't wait to see what happens with Bo.

 

[TruGr1t]

Canucks build Horvat up as the future and next captain but can't commit to a long term deal with him... but they have no issues signing an injury prone, older and declining Ericksson to a big long term deal... it's a joke, a horrible one that I can't wait till it's over.

It all circles back to the idea that the entire reason we're having a hard time signing Horvat is because the organization is a mess. They've failed to draft any impact players, bottomed out two years running, and are watching ticket sales plummet. Then like you mention, our salary structure is completely out of whack because we can't pro scout at all and give bad veterans way over-priced contracts.

The natural reaction was to essentially latch onto the best story they had running (i.e. Horvat) and pump the bejesus out of it. The obvious effect is that they've sacrificed pretty much all of their negotiating leverage by selling Horvat as a way more important piece than he actually is right now (or might ever be).

Linden actually sort of tried to "walk back" some of the Horvat narrative last year, but it was too late. If the player was in a typical organization with effective NHL first-line forwards, and a stable of legitimate prospects that would put his value in context, he'd have nowhere near the negotiation leverage he has right now, which is pretty evident from all the comparable forwards signed this summer.

 

[Fatass]

The likelihood of an offer sheet is still very low, but I'm hoping it happens. Even if we end up matching, I'd rather someone else's GM works out the contract with Bo than our own, for fear of our own screwing it up.

Maybe that's one reason why no offer sheets have come, because the other GMs don't want to help out JB? Maybe those GMs feel if they just leave JB alone he will over pay (again) and mess up his cap?

 

[MikeK]

Maybe that's one reason why no offer sheets have come, because the other GMs don't want to help out JB? Maybe those GMs feel if they just leave JB alone he will over pay (again) and mess up his cap?

No. It's because they rarely happen. It has nothing to do with doing the other GMs work. It has to do with the fact that at some point every GM is faced with tough negotiations and doesn't want to open a can of worms that could come back in the way of payback. It's an unwritten rule that you give the other GM heads up about your interest in the player before you send an offer sheet their way. There have only been 6 or 7 sheets in the last 10 years and 8 or 9 in the last 20 years. I laugh when so called sports experts talk about offer sheeting players in the offseason to try and stir up chatter among fans. They almost never happen. I'm not saying they don't or can't, I'm saying they almost never happen and it's funny when it's used as negotiation ploys through the media.

 

[Cogburn]

No. It's because they rarely happen. It has nothing to do with doing the other GMs work. It has to do with the fact that at some point every GM is faced with tough negotiations and doesn't want to open a can of worms that could come back in the way of payback. It's an unwritten rule that you give the other GM heads up about your interest in the player before you send an offer sheet their way. There have only been 6 or 7 sheets in the last 10 years and 8 or 9 in the last 20 years. I laugh when so called sports experts talk about offer sheeting players in the offseason to try and stir up chatter among fans. They almost never happen. I'm not saying they don't or can't, I'm saying they almost never happen and it's funny when it's used as negotiation ploys through the media.

Weber, Sakic, Kesler, Bernier, Backes, Ohlund...I know there are are other big names, but those are the first ones that come to mind, and even then, two were superstars, and four involved the Canucks directly. 12 have been offered since 1997.

But Sakic's inclusion should be enough to show anyone thinking it's "just that simple" how rare and broad a selection of years are needed to accumulate anything close to a list of players.

Edit: And only 2 in 20 years were accepted and not matched: Chris Gratton and Dustin Penner. Gratton was traded back after 100 games, and pooping the bed, and Penner kinda, sorta, definitely dropped off tremendously.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

There could even be a bit of extra incentive for other GMs to throw a predatory offer sheet at Horvat: if they actually get him, the chances of Benning getting canned go up quite a lot, which might mitigate the chances of retaliation.

 

[me2]

There could even be a bit of extra incentive for other GMs to throw a predatory offer sheet at Horvat: if they actually get him, the chances of Benning getting canned go up quite a lot, which might mitigate the chances of retaliation.

The retaliation would be from the other GMs for getting Jim sacked

 

[MikeK]

The retaliation would be from the other GMs for getting Jim sacked

And in today's cap game when almost every team is faced with an RFA contract negotiation every offseason it's just not something GMs even think about anymore. At one point it was a legitimate fear for teams but I highly doubt it's that way anymore. Even if the GM is fired there is usually the President and Owner left behind and it's something an Organization doesn't soon forget. Offer sheets are a risky business for the offering team because they are almost always matched and the offering team is a target afterwards. Plus, lets not forget how connected people are nowadays via email/smartphone etc. The world is a lot smaller today then it ever has been.

 

[iFan]

If I was a GM of another team Id a throw an offer to Horvat for 5.5

But I guess the heathy don't like to feed on the sick and drying

 

[Mergatroidskittle]

Because those who have supported this management regime deserve it. That's why.

And I'm hopeful that it will expedite the management purge. I don't know how much longer I can take more of the Linden/Benning/Weisbrod BS. This is going to be a very hard season. If they do improve by 10 points I don't want to risk them getting yet another year.

Who are you to tell people what they deserve ? simply don't watch then

 

[y2kcanucks]

If I was a GM of another team Id a throw an offer to Horvat for 5.5

But I guess the heathy don't like to feed on the sick and drying

Would also be hilarious to see how the "cap space don't matter" crew spins this one if we lose Bo to a predatory offer sheet.

 

[Huggy43]

Because those who have supported this management regime deserve it. That's why.

And I'm hopeful that it will expedite the management purge. I don't know how much longer I can take more of the Linden/Benning/Weisbrod BS. This is going to be a very hard season. If they do improve by 10 points I don't want to risk them getting yet another year.

I don't like who we have running our team either, however I don't think punishing the fans who aren't blind to that crew's stupidity to show a group of fans they were wrong is a smart or healthy stance to have. As a fan of this team you know that that would delay the chance of seeing a good hockey team in this city for a much longer time.

We have a GM who has made this team worse since getting here & is on the final year of his contract with no extension in sight. Just hope we have another garbage season with no playoffs as that will likely be the end of this group.