Blues Trade Proposals Part XXXIII

[Evocable Manager]

Okay, the Zuc for Tage proposal. A 6'5" 19 yr old, on an ELC, for a 5'7" 30 yr old earning 4.5 mil. Okay, go ahead and flame me for disliking this proposal! Please explain to me how Z is the missing piece we've been waiting for, the guy who will lead the parade down Market St. After all, he's done so much for the Rags. Sorry for the sarcasm, but I just don't get this.

Yea f*** acquiring a 60 point scoring, strong defensive and board play player who excels in all areas of the game. Ignore the fact he's got legs like tree trunks and always been a good boards player in the league and his size is completely irrelevant.

I'm not advocating we make that trade, but there is nothing wrong with Mats Zuccarello and I'm calling it now, Tage will never reach Zucc's peak.

 

[Blueston]

My concern with Zucc is age and whether he is past his peak. He has been a helluva player for years. If he were 3 years younger would absolutely do it, but given where we are as a team and age of our top players, would be hesitant to pay price for him.

 

[MissouriMook]

Okay, the Zuc for Tage proposal. A 6'5" 19 yr old, on an ELC, for a 5'7" 30 yr old earning 4.5 mil. Okay, go ahead and flame me for disliking this proposal! Please explain to me how Z is the missing piece we've been waiting for, the guy who will lead the parade down Market St. After all, he's done so much for the Rags. Sorry for the sarcasm, but I just don't get this.

Actually I agree. What makes it even worse is this type of deal sacrifices valuable cap space and tradable assets without addressing the glaring need up the middle.

 

[The Note]

Okay, the Zuc for Tage proposal. A 6'5" 19 yr old, on an ELC, for a 5'7" 30 yr old earning 4.5 mil. Okay, go ahead and flame me for disliking this proposal! Please explain to me how Z is the missing piece we've been waiting for, the guy who will lead the parade down Market St. After all, he's done so much for the Rags. Sorry for the sarcasm, but I just don't get this.

First off, their heights have nothing to do with anything. Zuc has scored 49, 61 and 59 points the past three years. The age argument is valid, but Zuccarello is only signed for one more year after this so it’s not a huge commitment. The Blues are thin on RW, especially with Schenn playing C. With Kyrou, Kostin, Thomas and now Blais I consider Thompson expendable. This is all assuming that’s the ask. I think if you can add a skilled scoring forward at RW or C for Thompson as the main piece, you should do it.

 

[Evocable Manager]

Thompson really isn't that great. Out of the strong young forwards in our system which includes Thomas, Kostin, Kyrou, Blais. Barbashev, Fabbri, he's the worst player. I don't see him panning into a top six forward or ever seeing significant production at the NHL level. And it's nothing to do with him being tall and lanky or any other reason than what he does on the ice.

If we're looking to add a piece to the group, he's the guy I want out.

 

[Celtic Note]

Thompson really isn't that great. Out of the strong young forwards in our system which includes Thomas, Kostin, Kyrou, Blais. Barbashev, Fabbri, he's the worst player. I don't see him panning into a top six forward or ever seeing significant production at the NHL level. And it's nothing to do with him being tall and lanky or any other reason than what he does on the ice.

If we're looking to add a piece to the group, he's the guy I want out.

Kyrou will have to do more at a higher level before I put him ahead of Tage. He could easily be a guy who doesn’t see his game translate to the next level.

 

[Evocable Manager]

Kyrou will have to do more at a higher level before I put him ahead of Tage. He could easily be a guy who doesn’t see his game translate to the next level.

What exactly has Tage done?

He had 2 points in 16 games in the AHL last year. Yes he has two points in his only game this year but it was one game. He didn't crack P/GP in college, I doubt he's doing it in pro. Kyrou is in a lesser league but at least he has the ability to actually create offense. Tage played in 4 NHL games but outside of a few useless dangles that led to nothing and were in awkward spots, he did nothing.

I'm not saying Kyrou is some superstar, but Tage hasn't and probably won't do anything for me. And yes, I hope I eat crow for saying that. Kyrou has high offensive potential, despite his glaring flaws.

 

[Celtic Note]

What exactly has Tage done?

He had 2 points in 16 games in the AHL last year. Yes he has two points in his only game this year but it was one game. He didn't crack P/GP in college, I doubt he's doing it in pro. Kyrou is in a lesser league but at least he has the ability to actually create offense. Tage played in 4 NHL games but outside of a few useless dangles that led to nothing and were in awkward spots, he did nothing.

I'm not saying Kyrou is some superstar, but Tage hasn't and probably won't do anything for me. And yes, I hope I eat crow for saying that. Kyrou has high offensive potential, despite his glaring flaws.

Tage has shown that he can play in the NHL as a reliable player defensively. He has a good shot, speed and size. I would expect him to be an NHL guy with some degree of success. Although I am not terribly high on the guy.

Kyrou has a lot of offensive talents, but I have seen too many small, shifty high skill forwards with big holes in their game never take the next step. So far Kyrou has shown massive holes defensively. He also haven’t shown the ability to translate his offense against better competition. I wasn’t impressed with his preseason or Traverse City games.

Both players have a ton of work to do. Both have some good potential. But, as it stands today, the odds are in Tage’s favor for me.

 

[Evocable Manager]

Tage has shown that he can play in the NHL as a reliable player defensively. He has a good shot, speed and size. I would expect him to be an NHL guy with some degree of success. Although I am not terribly high on the guy.

Kyrou has a lot of offensive talents, but I have seen too many small, shifty high skill forwards with big holes in their game never take the next step. So far Kyrou has shown massive holes defensively. He also haven’t shown the ability to translate his offense against better competition. I wasn’t impressed with his preseason or Traverse City games.

Both players have a ton of work to do. Both have some good potential. But, as it stands today, the odds are in Tage’s favor for me.

I'm not concerned with Tages skill, he has plenty, the problem is he doesn't seem to know how to use them. He doesn't drive the play or dictate the pace of a game. And fun fact, players of all heights and sizes flop and height has nothing to do with anything. He's 6'5", but that doesn't make him a better hockey player.

Thompson wasn't necessarily put in a position to put up points, but if he at least was creating plays and you could see his linemates couldn't provide the proper offensive support, something would be there. But that didn't happen. His defensive ability is unspectacular and nothing special. In reality, he should've never made the team because Blais was the better player from day one. Thompson is a PP specialist who will probably need a strong playmaking linemate to produce in the NHL.

You can make the argument that Kyrous speed, agility, stickhandling, playmakimg and offensive instincts could lead to him to be an NHL guy with some degree of success.

One tournament and a few preseason games are not a proper way to evaluate a player. His sample size in the OHL is much larger and anyone who can properly evaluate the game (and watches him enough) can truly pick apart his game at an NHL level. The positive thing is defensive play can be fixed, it really isn't impossible. Neither player is an NHL player right now but if I had to place a bet, Jordan Kyrou ends up superior to Tage Thomson.

 

[Reality Czech]

I'm not concerned with Tages skill, he has plenty, the problem is he doesn't seem to know how to use them. He doesn't drive the play or dictate the pace of a game. And fun fact, players of all heights and sizes flop and height has nothing to do with anything. He's 6'5", but that doesn't make him a better hockey player.

Thompson wasn't necessarily put in a position to put up points, but if he at least was creating plays and you could see his linemates couldn't provide the proper offensive support, something would be there. But that didn't happen. His defensive ability is unspectacular and nothing special. In reality, he should've never made the team because Blais was the better player from day one. Thompson is a PP specialist who will probably need a strong playmaking linemate to produce in the NHL.

You can make the argument that Kyrous speed, agility, stickhandling, playmakimg and offensive instincts could lead to him to be an NHL guy with some degree of success.

One tournament and a few preseason games are not a proper way to evaluate a player. His sample size in the OHL is much larger and anyone who can properly evaluate the game (and watches him enough) can truly pick apart his game at an NHL level. The positive thing is defensive play can be fixed, it really isn't impossible. Neither player is an NHL player right now but if I had to place a bet, Jordan Kyrou ends up superior to Tage Thomson.

I'm curious Ivan, just how much have you seen Tage play? Are you basing your very detailed analysis mostly on reports and statistics? Do you expect you'll get a perfect evaluation of a player based on just a handful of games, his first NHL experience? Seems to me you are making a lot of assumptions based on not so much information. Dunn didn't look so hot for his first handful of games but now he's starting to figure it out.

Interesting that you say that you can't properly evaluate Kyrou based on a handful of games yet you have no problem predicting exactly what kind of player Thompson will become based on a handful of games. So which is it?

 

[Blues0307]

I see Kyrou becoming a 2nd to 3rd line tweener at the NHL level, who ends up having little impact and eventually fizzling out. He has a weak shot that's going to hold him back unless he figures out a way to improve it significantly. I think he should be trade bait while he's got value as I see Thomas as being a better version of Kyrou, making him expendable.

As for Thompson, the kid's just not ready for prime time yet. If he can put on 20 lbs, it'll change the way he plays the game, and IMO, he could be a 2nd line guy. He has a lethal shot and good stickhandling ability. When he fills out, he'll be able to protect the puck better and play more of a man's game.

 

[Evocable Manager]

I'm curious Ivan, just how much have you seen Tage play? Are you basing your very detailed analysis mostly on reports and statistics? Do you expect you'll get a perfect evaluation of a player based on just a handful of games, his first NHL experience? Seems to me you are making a lot of assumptions based on not so much information. Dunn didn't look so hot for his first handful of games but now he's starting to figure it out.

Interesting that you say that you can't properly evaluate Kyrou based on a handful of games yet you have no problem predicting exactly what kind of player Thompson will become based on a handful of games. So which is it?

I did watch a good amount of him while in the NCAA. Not every game, but at least 8-10 in his draft year and 15-16 the year after. When he was signed in the AHL, I watched at least half. I watched every USA World Junior game as well.

Now I've seen him in every televised preseason game, 4 NHL games.

It may not be enough but.

I've seen Kyrou over the same span in maybe 8 OHL games and the preseason.

I've never been a Thompson fan and when we traded up for him I was pissed. Like I said before, I do hope he makes me eat crow but I'm not seeing it.

 

[Dbrownss]

I see Kyrou becoming a 2nd to 3rd line tweener at the NHL level, who ends up having little impact and eventually fizzling out. He has a weak shot that's going to hold him back unless he figures out a way to improve it significantly. I think he should be trade bait while he's got value as I see Thomas as being a better version of Kyrou, making him expendable.

As for Thompson, the kid's just not ready for prime time yet. If he can put on 20 lbs, it'll change the way he plays the game, and IMO, he could be a 2nd line guy. He has a lethal shot and good stickhandling ability. When he fills out, he'll be able to protect the puck better and play more of a man's game.

Kyrou doesnt have to necessarily improve his shot to be an impact player. What's going to hold him back in most system is his play away from the puck. His skating and vision alone gives him a leg up in being an impact player, he's also not a small guy either. From what it sounds like, he is willing to work on his 2 way game. That's something absolutely can be taught.

I wouldn't say he is or isn't trade bait. All the prospects would be available for an impact NHL player imo.

 

[simon IC]

Kyrou doesnt have to necessarily improve his shot to be an impact player. What's going to hold him back in most system is his play away from the puck. His skating and vision alone gives him a leg up in being an impact player, he's also not a small guy either. From what it sounds like, he is willing to work on his 2 way game. That's something absolutely can be taught.

I wouldn't say he is or isn't trade bait. All the prospects would be available for an impact NHL player imo.

I did watch a good amount of him while in the NCAA. Not every game, but at least 8-10 in his draft year and 15-16 the year after. When he was signed in the AHL, I watched at least half. I watched every USA World Junior game as well.

Now I've seen him in every televised preseason game, 4 NHL games.

It may not be enough but.

I've seen Kyrou over the same span in maybe 8 OHL games and the preseason.

I've never been a Thompson fan and when we traded up for him I was pissed. Like I said before, I do hope he makes me eat crow but I'm not seeing it.

Ah yes, that's right, I remember now. You were definitely in that camp. Cool. Now I know where you're coming from. I still maintain that I'd rather hang on to TT and see what we have in him than trade him for a 30 yr old. @Dbrownss, I agree with you in principle, I just don't agree that Zucarello is that impact player.

 

[Oberyn]

I see Kyrou becoming a 2nd to 3rd line tweener at the NHL level, who ends up having little impact and eventually fizzling out. He has a weak shot that's going to hold him back unless he figures out a way to improve it significantly. I think he should be trade bait while he's got value as I see Thomas as being a better version of Kyrou, making him expendable.

As for Thompson, the kid's just not ready for prime time yet. If he can put on 20 lbs, it'll change the way he plays the game, and IMO, he could be a 2nd line guy. He has a lethal shot and good stickhandling ability. When he fills out, he'll be able to protect the puck better and play more of a man's game.

Kyrou's strengths aren't in his shot. It's his skating, vision, and puckhandling that make him such a good prospect. Not to mention, you can work and improve on your shot. Kyrou has question marks that may cause him to fail at the NHL level, but it won't be his shot that holds him back.

 

[Evocable Manager]

Ah yes, that's right, I remember now. You were definitely in that camp. Cool. Now I know where you're coming from. I still maintain that I'd rather hang on to TT and see what we have in him than trade him for a 30 yr old. @Dbrownss, I agree with you in principle, I just don't agree that Zucarello is that impact player.

I should mention I'd prefer we move him for a multi year option at center (like an extended Turris) than trade him for Zuccarello.

I just felt the need to say that there's nothing wrong with going after Zuccarello.

 

[Dbrownss]

There is a short list of guys i wouldn't be upset in seeing Kyrou go for....zucc isnt one of them. Idk what id be happy with

 

[LetsGoBooze]

There is a short list of guys i wouldn't be upset in seeing Kyrou go for....zucc isnt one of them. Idk what id be happy with

I guess i'm in the minority but i would easily pay Kyrou for 1.5 years of Zucc.

 

[Mike Liut]

I guess i'm in the minority but i would easily pay Kyrou for 1.5 years of Zucc.

I wouldn’t do it. 1.5 years isn’t long enough imo

 

[Falco Lombardi]

I would gladly move Kyrou for Zuc

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

I'm hesitant about trading for Zuccarello mostly due to contract situation. If we acquire him now, we'd be spending a large cost with no guarantee of him staying beyond next season. I'd be much more comfortable acquiring him this coming offseason when we'd be able to see what his contract asks are. If he's looking for something 6+ years, then I'd definitely steer clear as that's too long of a contract to give to a guy who'd be starting the new contract at 32.

 

[Spektre]

I'm hoping Army is talking to Bergevin if Montreal is talking trades. What is the most you would part with for Patches or Galchenyuk?

Montreal needs a puck moving top 4 D and a top 6 C. The Blues aren't loaded with C’s but maybe a package including prospects would move the needle.
I think the Habs are in a funk and could turn it around but the pressure to win every game is enormous.

Patches seems like the biggest scapegoat but he’s had over 30 goals & 60 points the past 4 years. Galchenyuk is probably a pipe dream but maybe Patches is doable. He’s turning 29 next month and signed for 1 more year at 4.5 million.

 

[Mike Liut]

I personally wouldn’t trade TT, Kostin, Dunn, Thomas or Kyrou for anybody with less than 3 years on their current contract. We’ve played that game before it has never worked. Lets try to build something for once and see what happens. I’d much rather trade Steen, Berglund and JBo for prospect / picks. We are 2 years away from being a serious threat imo.

 

[Dbrownss]

I'm hoping Army is talking to Bergevin if Montreal is talking trades. What is the most you would part with for Patches or Galchenyuk?

Montreal needs a puck moving top 4 D and a top 6 C. The Blues aren't loaded with C’s but maybe a package including prospects would move the needle.
I think the Habs are in a funk and could turn it around but the pressure to win every game is enormous.

Patches seems like the biggest scapegoat but he’s had over 30 goals & 60 points the past 4 years. Galchenyuk is probably a pipe dream but maybe Patches is doable. He’s turning 29 next month and signed for 1 more year at 4.5 million.

Honestly...wtf is Montreal doing? I read that someone hinted at Patches for Puljujarvi...if that has any traction, wtf is Montreal doing.....

I dont think Galchenyuk would be expensive.....he's been bad

 

[HolyJumpin]

Here's my proposal for Montreal: Galchenyuk for Barbashev, Schmaltz, and Gunnarson. The Habs are having a hell of a time in their own end and they could really use some defensive help. Barbie was something someone wanted in the trade board but would probably help them out at center quite a bit.