Blues Trade Proposals Part XXVII ‎

[Spektre]

Trocheck as a return for Shattenkirk would probably be the best case scenario. I'm not sure if Fla would move him but they definitely need an offensive RHD and are stocked with C's.

 

[bluesfan3109]

Both Shattenkirk and Yandle are in for a big pay raise.
Do you think they'll get comparable deals? Why/why not?

I don't think Shattenkirk should return to the Blues, only because it's a luxury to have that much $$ tied up on the right side of our defense, and Parayko's emergence has made Shatty expendable.

But--if we can use that salary to upgrade the left side, and get a real top pairing defenseman to play alongside Pietrangelo, surely that would be money well spent.

Both Yandle and Shattenkirk will get ridiculous offers, but I would bet that the Blues' success this season would make StL an attractive destination for lots of free agents. Assuming Yandle would want to come here, and knowing that you still need to retain one of Backes/Brouwer, pay Schwartz, and find another top-6 center if you can, how would you make it work?

Again, we're assuming that you want to.

I've suggested moving Bouwmeester, and others have pointed out that's not likely, as he either has a NMC or a NTC--but that's not the dealbreaker it's made out to be, and he's not our only option.

I've also suggested trading Schwartz--but only if we can't get him locked into a reasonable contract. If he's pricing himself out of the StL market, we should move him without delay for the center this team needs, but we shouldn't be looking to move him just to do so.

Shattenkirk we can flip for a pick. Moving Bouwmeester and Schwartz to EDM for Maroon + RNH/Draisatl would save, I'm guessing, about $3M in cap space. If Brouwer walks, we can afford to keep Backes, and maybe Upshall, too. We'll assume Sobotka gets flaky again and stays put, and Ott walks. If so, that's $$ for Brodziak to return, or for a 4th line C to replace him. And I would keep Paajarvi, unless he's beaten out for a spot in camp, as he's proven a decent utility player. I'd want to bring Bortuzzo back, also, as we saw how important it was to maintain defensive depth.

Fabbri--Stastny--Tarasenko
Steen--RNH--Backes
Maroon--Lehtera--Jaskin
Upshall--Brodz/?--Reaves
Paajarvi/Rattie extras

Yandle--Pietrangelo
Edmonson--Parayko
Gunnarson--Bortuzzo
Lindbohm

Am I smoking crack, or is that a nice looking roster?
Sure it's unlikely, but I don't think it's infeasible.

1) I don't understand your crazy obsession with Maroon, everytime you post anything it involves a terrible trade to get Maroon.
2) That's terrible value in a trade involving Schwartz, even if it's LD and not RNH and his overratedness by EDM fans
3) Why spend $7mil on Yandle when he's also terrible at defense like Shatty
4) Speaking of Shatty what happened to him in your plan here???
5) I don't see how you resign Backes and bring in Yandle and RNH contracts and stay under the cap
6) Yes I think you're clearly smoking something really strong b/c that roster does not looking better or even as good as this last years roster and more expensive

 

[Majorityof1]

Shattenkirk we can flip for a pick. Moving Bouwmeester and Schwartz to EDM for Maroon + RNH/Draisatl would save, I'm guessing, about $3M in cap space. If Brouwer walks, we can afford to keep Backes, and maybe Upshall, too. We'll assume Sobotka gets flaky again and stays put, and Ott walks. If so, that's $$ for Brodziak to return, or for a 4th line C to replace him. And I would keep Paajarvi, unless he's beaten out for a spot in camp, as he's proven a decent utility player. I'd want to bring Bortuzzo back, also, as we saw how important it was to maintain defensive depth.

Fabbri--Stastny--Tarasenko
Steen--RNH--Backes
Maroon--Lehtera--Jaskin
Upshall--Brodz/?--Reaves
Paajarvi/Rattie extras

Yandle--Pietrangelo
Edmonson--Parayko
Gunnarson--Bortuzzo
Lindbohm

Am I smoking crack, or is that a nice looking roster?
Sure it's unlikely, but I don't think it's infeasible.

1. Why does Bouwmeester waive to go to Edmonton? He is from there, but I still doubt he waives to go home. But even if he does....

2. Why does Edmonton want Bouwmeester? Their LHD are actually good. Sekera and Klefbom are definitely top4 worthy. and Nurse is a solid young player with potential. They need to work on their right side badly. But let's say they take it because frankly, we are getting hosed value-wise....

3. The depth is horrible. Jaskin in a top 9 with Rattie and Paajarvi as our depth players? A couple injuries and suddenly we are looking at 3 guys who weren't in our playoff roster this past year (Paajarvi, Jaskin and Rattie) suddenly in our top 9. But let's say that we go injury free....

4. The 3rd line is still terrible. Maroon and Lehtera weak defensively. None of the 3 is a great skater. Just a terrible line that would need to be sheltered, and can't really put up great offensive numbers. And we wouldn't have the cap to do much more to improve anything.

5. This is just opinion, but Yandle isn't the type of player I want paired with Petro. Petro is going to get all the tough defensive minutes, and that's not Yandle's wheelhouse. I guess that could be fixed by moving Gunnarsson with Petro and Yandle with Parayko though.

So good on you for thinking outside the box. But I don't think its feasible or really that great of a team.

 

[Dbrownss]

Pietrangelo needs a stay at home partner that is excellent defending the box in front of the goal.

 

[Majorityof1]

1) I don't understand your crazy obsession with Maroon, everytime you post anything it involves a terrible trade to get Maroon.
2) That's terrible value in a trade involving Schwartz, even if it's LD and not RNH and his overratedness by EDM fans
3) Why spend $7mil on Yandle when he's also terrible at defense like Shatty
4) Speaking of Shatty what happened to him in your plan here???
5) I don't see how you resign Backes and bring in Yandle and RNH contracts and stay under the cap
6) Yes I think you're clearly smoking something really strong b/c that roster does not looking better or even as good as this last years roster and more expensive

I ran the cap for him. If you sign Yandle to $6.5, Backes to $6, Brodz, Upshall, Rattie, and Paajarvi to $1M each, you slide in just under the cap with the escalator. If we got Drai instead, we'd actually have some room to bolster the depth.

He said Shatty goes in trade for picks. Berglund is the mystery disappearance. He just didn't show up for camp, I guess. Even Sobotka was explained, but not Bergie. My guess is he went to visit his fans in Scandanavia and didn't make it back from the Finnish leg of his trip for some reason....

 

[BA Carroll]

Pietrangelo needs a stay at home partner that is excellent defending the box in front of the goal.

Actually, I agree. And Yandle isn't that guy. I was only thinking we needed to balance our defense with a LHD who could contribute more offensively. I think he would make a huge improvement on our power play, but for even strength pairings, he would suck alongside Pietrangelo. I still think he would be worth it, assuming all the rest of it fell into place, salary-wise.

 

[Evocable Manager]

Actually, I agree. And Yandle isn't that guy. I was only thinking we needed to balance our defense with a LHD who could contribute more offensively. I think he would make a huge improvement on our power play, but for even strength pairings, he would suck alongside Pietrangelo. I still think he would be worth it, assuming all the rest of it fell into place, salary-wise.

How?
Jaskin in the top 9 would be brutal and that line would be really slow.
Stastny and Tarasenko didn't do well in the past, can't see them turning 180°.
Yandle would be brutal beside Petro. He is worse in his own end then Kirk.
Our depth is worse.
Lineup is not remotely better.

 

[Dbrownss]

Actually, I agree. And Yandle isn't that guy. I was only thinking we needed to balance our defense with a LHD who could contribute more offensively. I think he would make a huge improvement on our power play, but for even strength pairings, he would suck alongside Pietrangelo. I still think he would be worth it, assuming all the rest of it fell into place, salary-wise.

Wait for Dunn/Walman. There aren't any realistic, viable options to replace Boumeester.

Yandle sucks, let someone else overpay him

 

[BA Carroll]

1. Why does Bouwmeester waive to go to Edmonton? He is from there, but I still doubt he waives to go home. But even if he does....
He probably wouldn't--but stranger things have happened. I would tactfully approach him and find out, and at least attempt to persuade him.

2. Why does Edmonton want Bouwmeester? Their LHD are actually good. Sekera and Klefbom are definitely top4 worthy. and Nurse is a solid young player with potential. They need to work on their right side badly. But let's say they take it because frankly, we are getting hosed value-wise....
I think they would want him because he's reliable, he's a veteran, and he brings leadership and consistency that would really help their blue line. He would be an upgrade for them.

3. The depth is horrible. Jaskin in a top 9 with Rattie and Paajarvi as our depth players? A couple injuries and suddenly we are looking at 3 guys who weren't in our playoff roster this past year (Paajarvi, Jaskin and Rattie) suddenly in our top 9. But let's say that we go injury free....
The Blues just gave Jaskin a new contract. I don't think they'd do so if they weren't anticipating him in a starting role. I think he's deserving of it. Rattie probably needs top 6 minutes to succeed. I don't know who he beats out to take those minutes, and I don't see him making the team out of camp--but I don't think they're willing to send him packing just yet. Paajarvi is an outstanding depth player--he's fast, has good hands, works hard, and is reasonably responsible defensively. We could do worse. But we'd be fine with or without those players.

4. The 3rd line is still terrible. Maroon and Lehtera weak defensively. None of the 3 is a great skater. Just a terrible line that would need to be sheltered, and can't really put up great offensive numbers. And we wouldn't have the cap to do much more to improve anything.
Maroon is better defensively than you are crediting him, because he's outstanding on the walls, and his heavy forecheck is exactly the sort of defense-driven offense that Hitch has been trying to get his team to play. He's an ideal player for the Blues' style of play. As for Lehtera, he's also better defensively than you're giving him credit for. That line would generate a ton of chances, and would spend a lot of time banging bodies and wreaking havoc in the oppositions' end. What more do you want in a third line?

5. This is just opinion, but Yandle isn't the type of player I want paired with Petro. Petro is going to get all the tough defensive minutes, and that's not Yandle's wheelhouse. I guess that could be fixed by moving Gunnarsson with Petro and Yandle with Parayko though.
As I said to Dbrownss, I agree that Yandle and Pietrangelo aren't a good pairing. I know that's a contradiction to what I said previously, but in my defense, I was thinking primarily of having a solid offensive defenseman on the power play. I should have articulated that better. Regardless, do you really think he's worse than Gunnarson?

So good on you for thinking outside the box. But I don't think its feasible or really that great of a team.
Thanks for a thoughtful and polite response.

Replies in bold.

 

[Evocable Manager]

Edmonton has no use for Bouwmeester in any way. They signed Sekera and Klefbom to big contracts with term and money. Bouwmeester has a pretty thick contract and is trending down.
Just because Jaskin resigned doesn't mean he'll be handed a starting spot. He signed for 1M. We pay Reaves 1.1M, Ott 2.6M and they played in depth/4th line roles.
That 3rd line would need heavy sheltering and wouldn't be fast enough to generate anything. Miles worse from our current 3rd unit in Steen, Berglund and Backes.
Yandle is overrated.

 

[Spektre]

Jaskin's contract is one way so it appears they have him pencilled in as a 3rd liner.

 

[Evocable Manager]

Jaskin's contract is one way so it appears they have him pencilled in as a 3rd liner.

What does that have to do with where he plays? He just can't be sent to the AHL.

 

[kimzey59]

Jaskin's contract is one way so it appears they have him pencilled in as a 3rd liner.

1 mil is not 3rd line money.
It's 4th line money.

They likely have him pencilled in as the LW with Reaves and whoever they sign as the center for that line. Jaskin has not earned a top 9 spot just yet.

 

[Majorityof1]

Replies in bold.

No problem. You are going in a direction I agree with in principle. I definitely think we need to improve our left side, specifically Petro's partner. Bouwmeester's cap hit makes him a likely target. Some of the specifics I disagree with. But I give respect to someone who actually tries to put a full cap compliant plan together, especially one that is not the same old trades we always hear, even if I disagree with it.

To quibble though...

#2. I am not sure Bouwmeester is an upgrade over Kelfbom or Sekera. Definitely not Klefbom. And if he is over Sekera, not enough for Edmonton to pay for both of them to have one on the 3rd pair. That would be $15M on the left side with nobody worth a damn on the right.

3, The Jaskin contract is worth $1M. He is an RFA who has shown flashes of promise and can play 4th line. Of course they will sign him for a cheap deal. That doesn't mean he is anywhere near their top 9 plans. He played the 4th line in the playoffs. That is probably where they envision him playing. He salary is right in line with that. No doubt Rattie is a depth player next year to see how he works, but that just means we need someone else waiting in case he doesn't make it. Paajarvi just aint it. He sucks. He cannot put up points. He is only useful as a 4th line energy player due to his speed.

4. You over-rate Maroon. He hits, but his zone coverage is terrible. And he's slow so he's often late to the hit. His advanced stats don't tell a story of him being great. His Corsi Against Rel is poor. He is highly sheltered as well. He doesn't create many turnovers as your argument would suggest. He had 10 takeaways all year. Lehtera isn't terrible defensively, but he's not great. That lines total lack of any foot-speed would kill it though even if they had good defensive players. As for generating a ton of chances, Maroon has one season over 30 points at 28 years old, Lehtera couldn't put up 35 playing with Tarasenko and Jaskin is coming off of a
13 point season. They'd have nobody with a good shot. How are they going to be putting up scoring chances?

 

[Spektre]

Jaskin hadn't earned a 3rd line spot last year but starting this past year he was playing top 9 minutes. He actually played himself out of top 9 minutes.

It's possible they're thinking he's the LW on the 4th line but it doesn't really make sense. It's called the checking line for a reason. Unless he changes his game drastically he's far from a go getter checking machine.

 

[Oberyn]

Yeah sorry but a line of Maroon-Lehtera-Jaskin would not generate a bunch of chances. What a slow line, the opposition would run circles around them.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

What does that have to do with where he plays? He just can't be sent to the AHL.

He absolutely can be sent to the AHL. All a one way contract means is that if he is sent down, he's still paid the full value of the contract.

 

[Dbrownss]

He absolutely can be sent to the AHL. All a one way contract means is that if he is sent down, he's still paid the full value of the contract.

He's waiver eligible. I think that's what he ment.

 

[STL fan in MN]

He's waiver eligible. I think that's what he ment.

Jaskin would've been waiver eligible at the start of the 2016-17 season so matter what type of contract he signed. One-way vs two-way contracts have nothing to do with waiver eligibility. Waiver eligibility is determined by a combo of the player's age when he signed his first contract and the number of games he's played.

Rattie also becomes waiver eligible at the start of next season (or is it THIS season? At what point does the 2016-17 season go from being called next season to this season?)

 

[Dbrownss]

Jaskin would've been waiver eligible at the start of the 2016-17 season so matter what type of contract he signed. One-way vs two-way contracts have nothing to do with waiver eligibility. Waiver eligibility is determined by a combo of the player's age when he signed his first contract and the number of games he's played.

Rattie also becomes waiver eligible at the start of next season (or is it THIS season? At what point does the 2016-17 season go from being called next season to this season?)

I know, but the poster said he can't just be sent to the AHL. Which he can't, he'd get snatched.


Maybe I'm assuming people knew that lol

 

[STL fan in MN]

I know, but the poster said he can't just be sent to the AHL. Which he can't, he'd get snatched.


Maybe I'm assuming people knew that lol

I still think a lot of people don't know how waivers work. I haven't played video games in years so I don't know if EA Sports has fixed it or not but I'm pretty sure in their video games they had waivers and two-way contracts connected. That's always been my theory as to why so many have it confused that way.

 

[Evocable Manager]

He absolutely can be sent to the AHL. All a one way contract means is that if he is sent down, he's still paid the full value of the contract.

Ah, thanks, didn't know that.

I still think a lot of people don't know how waivers work. I haven't played video games in years so I don't know if EA Sports has fixed it or not but I'm pretty sure in their video games they had waivers and two-way contracts connected. That's always been my theory as to why so many have it confused that way.

EA done me dirty with the false info.

 

[Dbrownss]

I still think a lot of people don't know how waivers work. I haven't played video games in years so I don't know if EA Sports has fixed it or not but I'm pretty sure in their video games they had waivers and two-way contracts connected. That's always been my theory as to why so many have it confused that way.

Yea that whole system is trash. You can send people to the AHL without needing waivers before the season starts. I do that alot lol

 

[GrayZack]

Hello guys

I dont post much, but I read this forum daily.

There is no question we are supper deep at RWD, and the obvious solution is to trade Shattenkirk this off season. BUT what if we resign him and get ready to trade Pietrangelo Next summer.

Please dont kill me, listen I love Pietrangelo as much as the next guy. But we still got one more year of a Shattenkirk @4.25M and Paraykoo @858K

I am a huge Parayko, and believe Hitch is willing to give him tone of ice time next year. Parayko could get one more year learning from our great Sr D-man in Petro/Bouwmeester. And after next year will he be ready to take over the #1D minutes ? I think the answer is yes and this will make Pietrangelo @ $6.5M explainable at the end of the 2016/17 season.

Pietrangelo would get us the number one centre we desperately need. But I know that does not help our number one centre problem for this coming year.

But Everyone is worried about having to much money locked up in RHD. but this problem will only start in 2017/18. Next season Shatty/Petro/Parko, will all cost the same as 2015/16.

I am just basically trying to say, we dont really need to trade Shatty this off season, because If we resign him, we could still get HUGE value trading Preto, IF/When Parayko continue to improve his game.

 

[Dbrownss]

We've been down that road. There aren't any realistic trades for Pietrangelo