Blues Trade Proposals 2022-2023

[Linkens Mastery]

I think the only move Army makes now is that he signs Sunny. He may move Scandella. Or Scandella is LTIRed. You never know with Sir Break a Hip.

 

[Celtic Note]

You guys are hyper fixating on that point, his original point was simply that our current squad doesn't have any elite or game-breaking talent at any position, and becuase of that, there isn't much point in going after a Sanheim, since while it's an upgrade, it won't significantly move the needle to make us contenders.

I think we can argue that Buchnevich is that elite talent, and the counter to this is his health and contract future. Will he be around when Dvorsky is developed, and can he play a full season consistently.

The 2019 club had ROR and Petro has bonafide elite players, and then we had players/pairings performing at elite levels, Binnington and Bouwmeester/Parayko.

I can take an argument that Sanheim/Parayko could get back to what Bouwmeester/Parayko did, but Bouwmeester defensively is ahead of Sanheim IMO, but I can see the argument that they can get back to elite level defense as a pairing.

Kyrou certainly has Tarasenko type potential in terms of game-breaking ability, can argue he's already there, the issue is more his consistency. Tarasenko wasn't great defensively, but he was rarely a liability, and at times he was very strong defensively, one of the goals in game 7 was a direct result of his defensive play. That's what we need Kyrou to get to. At times he uses his speed as a defensive asset in taking pucks away, and that needs to continue.

At the center position, we need Dvorsky to hit and be a Kopitar/ROR, and Thomas needs to be able to drive the offense against top competition. I'm big fans of both, but if neither become elite, even in a specific area of the game, we do run the risk of becoming a pretender where we have a lot of good parts, but never good enough to get over the hump. Look at teams like the Jets and Wild.

I think this is a good summary of where I am at with my thinking.

Brian made a good argument about Buch being elite. I can concede that he qualifies. But, as we have discussed here for years now and I think we had mostly a consensus agreement, wingers hold less weight in the Cup discussion than centers and defenseman. That’s why I added that element to the discussion.

Kyrou with a bit more offense and improved defense can be that game breaker, but I also want him to step up at big moments. I am not sure he is there yet. Tarasenko had a penchant for scoring goals at big times. Kyrou doesn’t quite seem to be at that level yet, but others may disagree.

I will try to respond to the other items later.

 

[Celtic Note]

At first it was just top 30 then you have to narrow it down to top 30 forwards. I'm sure we have a player right now on this team that was top 30 in scoring too, we just have to narrow it down enough.

Top scorers that were born on january 5th 2003 on a thursday to a mother named martha whos favorite movie is superman. Am I doing it right?


I agree with you but Celtic is trying to be Dizee 2.0

If I didn’t say top 30 forwards in my 1st post, my bad. I thought I did. Those were the numbers I pulled for Buch, Kyrou and ROR.

I personally don’t care for the hostility.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I think this is a good summary of where I am at with my thinking.

Brian made a good argument about Buch being elite. I can concede that he qualifies. But, as we have discussed here for years now and I think we had mostly a consensus agreement, wingers hold less weight in the Cup discussion than centers and defenseman. That’s why I added that element to the discussion.

Kyrou with a bit more offense and improved defense can be that game breaker, but I also want him to step up at big moments. I am not sure he is there yet. Tarasenko had a penchant for scoring goals at big times. Kyrou doesn’t quite seem to be at that level yet, but others may disagree.

I will try to respond to the other items later.

Yeah, Tarasenko came up big in big moments. Remember that goal he scored with 6 seconds left to force OT against Chicago after that Seabrook cheapshot on Backes? Kyrou certainly has that skill in him to be Tarasenko, but this is the type of difference that you are talking about. When the game is on the line and we need a goal, will Kyrou be the guy to tell the team he's scoring? He has the ability in him, but that's the next step in his development. And I don't think either of us are knocking Kyrou or want him gone, that's just the next step we see for him.

 

[542365]

I think Kyrou definitely has it in him. Remember how he took over the Winter Classic in Minnesota? That’s a big stage and he completely dominated that game. He was tied for third in scoring during his World Junior appearance, and has 7 goals in 12 playoff games since becoming a top six forward. I think he needs help though. He’s a really good complimentary scorer. We could really use another player at his level offensively to take some of the load off. Buch or Vrana could be that guy, especially on the PP. I know Kyrou led the team in PPG, but he either needs to develop a better one timer or pass the torch to someone who has one and become a facilitator on the PP because he hangs on to the puck way too long and the goalie is set by the time he releases it. That doesn’t work unless you have a prime Vladi wrister, and Jordan does not.

 

[TurgPavs]

Not saying I would be in favor, but what are the thoughts of:

Tp Philly
Kyrou and Scandella

To St. Louis
Sanheim and Konecny

 

[Blueston]

Not saying I would be in favor, but what are the thoughts of:

Tp Philly
Kyrou and Scandella

To St. Louis
Sanheim and Konecny

pass. Don’t trade star for 2 complimentary pieces.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I think Konecny will be closer to ppg moving forward, so I'd consider it, not sure if I, Army, or Philly would do it.

 

[TheDizee]

I think Kyrou definitely has it in him. Remember how he took over the Winter Classic in Minnesota? That’s a big stage and he completely dominated that game. He was tied for third in scoring during his World Junior appearance, and has 7 goals in 12 playoff games since becoming a top six forward. I think he needs help though. He’s a really good complimentary scorer. We could really use another player at his level offensively to take some of the load off. Buch or Vrana could be that guy, especially on the PP. I know Kyrou led the team in PPG, but he either needs to develop a better one timer or pass the torch to someone who has one and become a facilitator on the PP because he hangs on to the puck way too long and the goalie is set by the time he releases it. That doesn’t work unless you have a prime Vladi wrister, and Jordan does not.

kyrou only cares about being on tiktok highlight reel montages and how many vbucks he has on his account.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

kyrou only cares about being on tiktok highlight reel montages and how many vbucks he has on his account.

Maybe you should follow his lead and play some video games once in awhile. They are a pretty good stress and anger relief. With how angry you are all the time, it can't be good for your health.

 

[joe galiba]

Maybe you should follow his lead and play some video games once in awhile. They are a pretty good stress and anger relief. With how angry you are all the time, it can't be good for your health.

actually, I am glad that is how he spends his free time, much better for his body and brain than going out and partying every night until the sun comes up

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

Not saying I would be in favor, but what are the thoughts of:

Tp Philly
Kyrou and Scandella

To St. Louis
Sanheim and Konecny

I'd rather hold onto Kyrou and use him as the biggest bargaining chip in a trade for a stud, i.e. the missed opportunity to acquire Matthew Tkachuk. How perfect would he have been for this team with the direction we're heading with all of these two way prospects we've added?

Still not over it.

actually, I am glad that is how he spends his free time, much better for his body and brain than going out and partying every night until the sun comes up

Excellent point that doesn't get mentioned enough. Would you rather these young players be gaming or out getting blasted at the clubs and making questionable decisions? I know my answer.

 

[Xerloris]

If I didn’t say top 30 forwards in my 1st post, my bad. I thought I did. Those were the numbers I pulled for Buch, Kyrou and ROR.

I personally don’t care for the hostility.

I wasn't meaning it to be hostile, I like to argue and almost none of it from hostility but more just something to do. If you did in fact mean to add top 30 forward, then I concede to your point.

 

[Brian39]

You guys are hyper fixating on that point, his original point was simply that our current squad doesn't have any elite or game-breaking talent at any position, and becuase of that, there isn't much point in going after a Sanheim, since while it's an upgrade, it won't significantly move the needle to make us contenders.

I think we can argue that Buchnevich is that elite talent, and the counter to this is his health and contract future. Will he be around when Dvorsky is developed, and can he play a full season consistently.

The 2019 club had ROR and Petro has bonafide elite players, and then we had players/pairings performing at elite levels, Binnington and Bouwmeester/Parayko.

I can take an argument that Sanheim/Parayko could get back to what Bouwmeester/Parayko did, but Bouwmeester defensively is ahead of Sanheim IMO, but I can see the argument that they can get back to elite level defense as a pairing.

Kyrou certainly has Tarasenko type potential in terms of game-breaking ability, can argue he's already there, the issue is more his consistency. Tarasenko wasn't great defensively, but he was rarely a liability, and at times he was very strong defensively, one of the goals in game 7 was a direct result of his defensive play. That's what we need Kyrou to get to. At times he uses his speed as a defensive asset in taking pucks away, and that needs to continue.

At the center position, we need Dvorsky to hit and be a Kopitar/ROR, and Thomas needs to be able to drive the offense against top competition. I'm big fans of both, but if neither become elite, even in a specific area of the game, we do run the risk of becoming a pretender where we have a lot of good parts, but never good enough to get over the hump. Look at teams like the Jets and Wild.

I think my overall opinion is that we are still way too early into the careers of Thomas/Kyrou to be saying that they won't hit the levels of the ROR/Tarasenko we had on the Cup team. IMO, especially with Thomas.

Robert Thomas just wrapped up his age 23 season and turns 24 in a few days. Looking back at ROR's age 23 season (where he turned 24 mid-season), he took an offensive step back from his age 22 season. He went from his career-highs of 28 goals and 64 points in 2013/14 to 17 goals and 55 points in 2014/15. People were still hesitant to call him a good enough 1C on a Cup winner and Colorado wasn't ready to commit. Colorado elected to trade him for a nice futures haul instead of giving him a contract with an AAV higher than Duchene's $6M. They chose to go with a MacKinnon-Duchene 1-2 punch instead of rolling all three or moving Duchene to run ROR/Mac as their 1-2 center punch.

And then ROR continued to grow as a player, just like the vast majority of centers in their mid-20s.

ROR was 28 during the Cup run and that season was the first time in his career that he made the jump from being "just" a 1C to a bonafide elite player. It was his first time hitting 65+ points and his first time being top 5 in Selke voting. 77 points, the Selke win and the dominant playoff performance was the first time he'd hit those heights in his entire career and it was 4 years after where we are currently at with Thomas.

Thomas isn't currently on the same level of ability as prime ROR. He's never going to be a clone of ROR's playstyle. But the jury is still very much out as to whether he can take similarly large developmental strides as ROR did after his age 23 season.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

I think my overall opinion is that we are still way too early into the careers of Thomas/Kyrou to be saying that they won't hit the levels of the ROR/Tarasenko we had on the Cup team. IMO, especially with Thomas.

Robert Thomas just wrapped up his age 23 season and turns 24 in a few days. Looking back at ROR's age 23 season (where he turned 24 mid-season), he took an offensive step back from his age 22 season. He went from his career-highs of 28 goals and 64 points in 2013/14 to 17 goals and 55 points in 2014/15. People were still hesitant to call him a good enough 1C on a Cup winner and Colorado wasn't ready to commit. Colorado elected to trade him for a nice futures haul instead of giving him a contract with an AAV higher than Duchene's $6M. They chose to go with a MacKinnon-Duchene 1-2 punch instead of rolling all three or moving Duchene to run ROR/Mac as their 1-2 center punch.

And then ROR continued to grow as a player, just like the vast majority of centers in their mid-20s.

ROR was 28 during the Cup run and that season was the first time in his career that he made the jump from being "just" a 1C to a bonafide elite player. It was his first time hitting 65+ points and his first time being top 5 in Selke voting. 77 points, the Selke win and the dominant playoff performance was the first time he'd hit those heights in his entire career and it was 4 years after where we are currently at with Thomas.

Thomas isn't currently on the same level of ability as prime ROR. He's never going to be a clone of ROR's playstyle. But the jury is still very much out as to whether he can take similarly large developmental strides as ROR did after his age 23 season.

Wait, you're telling me Perron didn't end up a offiensive 2nd liner scoring at a 50 point or lower pace like he did when he was 24??? Craziness!

 

[bleedblue1223]

I think my overall opinion is that we are still way too early into the careers of Thomas/Kyrou to be saying that they won't hit the levels of the ROR/Tarasenko we had on the Cup team. IMO, especially with Thomas.

Robert Thomas just wrapped up his age 23 season and turns 24 in a few days. Looking back at ROR's age 23 season (where he turned 24 mid-season), he took an offensive step back from his age 22 season. He went from his career-highs of 28 goals and 64 points in 2013/14 to 17 goals and 55 points in 2014/15. People were still hesitant to call him a good enough 1C on a Cup winner and Colorado wasn't ready to commit. Colorado elected to trade him for a nice futures haul instead of giving him a contract with an AAV higher than Duchene's $6M. They chose to go with a MacKinnon-Duchene 1-2 punch instead of rolling all three or moving Duchene to run ROR/Mac as their 1-2 center punch.

And then ROR continued to grow as a player, just like the vast majority of centers in their mid-20s.

ROR was 28 during the Cup run and that season was the first time in his career that he made the jump from being "just" a 1C to a bonafide elite player. It was his first time hitting 65+ points and his first time being top 5 in Selke voting. 77 points, the Selke win and the dominant playoff performance was the first time he'd hit those heights in his entire career and it was 4 years after where we are currently at with Thomas.

Thomas isn't currently on the same level of ability as prime ROR. He's never going to be a clone of ROR's playstyle. But the jury is still very much out as to whether he can take similarly large developmental strides as ROR did after his age 23 season.

And I don't think anyone really has a major disagreement on the topic. Thomas and Kyrou have a lot of growth left in them. As you say, ROR never really became ROR until St. Louis. Part of that was usage and being on a better team, but at the end of the day, he still took his game from fringe 1st line center to an elite player.

That's why I think we are a few players from contending, but I do think some of those players are already on the team or in the organization. And seeing how they bounce back from last season will be a big test.

 

[Brian39]

And I don't think anyone really has a major disagreement on the topic. Thomas and Kyrou have a lot of growth left in them. As you say, ROR never really became ROR until St. Louis. Part of that was usage and being on a better team, but at the end of the day, he still took his game from fringe 1st line center to an elite player.

That's why I think we are a few players from contending, but I do think some of those players are already on the team or in the organization.

I might be guilty of attributing a popular opinion to a small minority view, but I definitely get the impression that a good chunk of the online fanbase wants a tear down rebuild and/or dislikes the Thomas and/or Kyrou contracts because they can't be good enough to be the small core of a Cup team.

 

[Xerloris]

I might be guilty of attributing a popular opinion to a small minority view, but I definitely get the impression that a good chunk of the online fanbase wants a tear down rebuild and/or dislikes the Thomas and/or Kyrou contracts because they can't be good enough to be the small core of a Cup team.

I can really only think of one person that dislikes them enough to want them gone.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I might be guilty of attributing a popular opinion to a small minority view, but I definitely get the impression that a good chunk of the online fanbase wants a tear down rebuild and/or dislikes the Thomas and/or Kyrou contracts because they can't be good enough to be the small core of a Cup team.

Oh, I'm talking about those here on this board. When we look at other places, I'd agree with you that people want to tear it down and go for a #1 pick.

 

[Brian39]

Oh, I'm talking about those here on this board. When we look at other places, I'd agree with you that people want to tear it down and go for a #1 pick.

This isn't the only place on the internet that I see the opinions of Blues fans, so that's probably on me.

 

[bleedblue1223]

This isn't the only place on the internet that I see the opinions of Blues fans, so that's probably on me.

We also tend to get super pedantic here, myself included, so I was just trying to bring us back together that we don't really disagree that much on our current and future state.

 

[Blueston]

As much as last year sucked, I think it’s worth emphasizing that it REALLY accelerated our retool. Not only were we bad enough to get high enough pick to select dvorsky (who is I think our top prospect), our crappiness yielded stenberg, dean, lindstein, pekarcik, a 2nd next year, and also vrana and kapanen (who can be flipped this coming season) for basically free bc of in season cap space from the trades. So we went from bottom 3rd prospect pool to maybe top 10 in one season. That is nice bit of work.

 

[bleedblue1223]

As much as last year sucked, I think it’s worth emphasizing that it REALLY accelerated our retool. Not only were we bad enough to get high enough pick to select dvorsky (who is I think our top prospect), our crappiness yielded stenberg, dean, lindstein, pekarcik, a 2nd next year, and also vrana and kapanen (who can be flipped this coming season) for basically free bc of in season cap space from the trades. So we went from bottom 3rd prospect pool to maybe top 10 in one season. That is nice bit of work.

Yep. When we look back on trades it's easy to gloss over the amount of picks, but when you list out all the prospects, it's pretty staggering. Dvorsky is our top one now, and then 3 from trades will be in our top 10. Pekarcik also look like a potential solid prospect. The 2nd next year could be a top 10 prospect, and then Vrana/Kap returns.

We might not have the elite talent in the pool or at certain positions, but our prospect pool has a few high-end guys, and a ton of depth, where once they develop, Army might just have to worry about pulling off a big trade as opposed to also find the right 3rd/4th liners to add.

 

[Xerloris]

Can anyone correct me if I am wrong but isn't Snuggs a RW? Dvorsky is a C, Buch is a RW and Kyrou is a RW. So who do we have for LW?

 

[Blueston]

Can anyone correct me if I am wrong but isn't Snuggs a RW? Dvorsky is a C, Buch is a RW and Kyrou is a RW. So who do we have for LW?

Buchy plaid a lot of left wing last year. I think handedness of wingers is overrated. And starting to think it may be for defensemen too.