Blues Trade Proposals 2022-2023

[Blueston]

Seems like Krug has to go for any movement to be made on our blueline, but I'm still very much for Hanifin or Sanheim if we can top-10 or top-15 protect any first we send. Though I'm happy we took a defenseman in the first round, Leddy's contract will be up around when Theo should be getting NHL consideration, so having Faulk-Parayko-Sanheim to ease him into the league fits our timeline. And prospects don't always pan out, see Kostin, Klim; we may be hunting for LHD again in a few years.

Step A: send out Krug.
Step B: do what it takes to get Sanheim or Hanafin.

Now, when it comes to Elias Lindholm, I'd love him but I doubt Calgary lets him AND hanifin go in the same deal for anything less than a monster overpay. Conroy doesn't have to rush to move either and he shouldn't. Lindholm would be fantastic, however. I like our forward group but a near-Selke center makes any team better and I bet Lindholm ages like fine wine, becoming a Jordan Staal-esque player by the tail end of his contract.

Still, I'm betting it takes a hell of a package from us to even get Hanafin, let alone Lindholm. I'm guessing for both Calgary'd want something like a first, one of Bolduc/Snuggerud/Neighbors, another pick, a roster forward (Kapanen, Saad) and a roster defenseman (Rosen, Scandella) to avoid hanging up immediately and I bet some other team could better that.

On the other hand, there IS a rush to trade Sanheim (July 1st extension). I think a top-15 (but more realistically top-10) protected 1st would be enough to pry him, maybe with Scandella going the other way to eat minutes. Again, that depends on moving Krug.

i don't see any way calgary gets that much. heck, i don't think sanheim gets as much as you project. flat cap really killing trade value.

 

[Brian39]

scoring depth, rolling 4 lines, 2-way players, defenders with length who defend well and really good goal tending was our recipe for winning the cup. Not sure why we‘ve changed our identity.

If we move Krug and bring in a 6'2" or taller LD, then I think we've moved right back to that identity.

Dean is noted for his 2 way play, as are both centers we just drafted. The forwards on the roster and the wealth of 1st round prospects Suggest that we should be able to roll 4 lines with damn good scoring depth in the years to come. Leddy and Faulk don't give us the same length on the blueline but Scandella fits the mold in the bottom of the lineup in the short term, Lindsteim is at least 6'1" and adding a taller 4/5 guy in the medium term isn't a large hurdle.

The organization's moves in the last week (and the attempt to swap Krug for Sanheim) strongly suggests a move toward that old identity.

 

[Blueston]

If we move Krug and bring in a 6'2" or taller LD, then I think we've moved right back to that identity.

Dean is noted for his 2 way play, as are both centers we just drafted. The forwards on the roster and the wealth of 1st round prospects Suggest that we should be able to roll 4 lines with damn good scoring depth in the years to come. Leddy and Faulk don't give us the same length on the blueline but Scandella fits the mold in the bottom of the lineup in the short term, Lindsteim is at least 6'1" and adding a taller 4/5 guy in the medium term isn't a large hurdle.

The organization's moves in the last week (and the attempt to swap Krug for Sanheim) strongly suggests a move toward that old identity.

with the move the blues have made, not least of which is coaching changes, i think current roster (yes, with krug) can compete for a playoff spot this year. i think we fall short, but wouldn't be shocking if we make it. this of course assumes that we reclaim our traditional identity and are more engaged defensively and not the train wreck we were last year.

but i don't think we are legit contender. and i don't think adding guy like lindholm makes us one. and i don't think that hanifan or sanheim do either (although at right price i would endorse either or both). what makes us legit contender is that we are building talented young stable to add to our current team over the next few years. if dvo and snuggy and a couple others hit and join kyrou and thomas (who both need to take next step that they have teased) and buchy etc.. we will have a championship level forward group. i'm not convinced that our d core will be, but if we can add another legit top pair guy (whether through trade or draft pick or one of our kids hitting) to what we have then we could be.

no guarantees, but this is why i think best move for us at this point is asset accumulation. if we can swap bolduc and another asset for appropriate aged d then i would do it, but dealing for big $ guys in their 30s isn't path i think we should be taking.

 

[Blanick]

I have feeling that Krug gets moved before opening day. My guess is sometime early next week after Free Agency settles down. There are going to be competing teams that have the cap space to take on Krug and are looking to improve their PP that will take a flier. Also, with the public way things have gone down I feel like the relationship might be a fraught between DA and Krug. After they move Krug my guess is the Blues pivot to Sanheim again. However, I don't think Army is going to put the Blues 1st on the table for him. He talks about wanting to compete next year but the harsh truth exist that as is the Blues forward core is worse than it was last year and defense core would be only slightly improved with acquiring Sanheim. Doug is pragmatic he isn't going to put a potential top10 or top15 pick on the table for a guy that Philly is actively trying to purge.

 

[Celtic Note]

Vegas also didn't have a top 30 scorer this year (by total points or points per game). No one on their team made it into the top 50 in total points. Eichel finished behind Buch and Kyrou in total points and was just 1 point up on Thomas (in 6 fewer games played). Buch scored at a higher pace than Eichel.

The 2019 Blues also didn't have a player in the top 30 in scoring. ROR was 32nd and the only Blue in the top 50. He fell to 43rd if you look at points per game (minimum 50 games played).

Last year was a down year for the team, but we had an impressive showing in 2021-22. Thomas, Kyrou, and Buch were 39th, 43rd, and 45th in total points with an even more impressive 16th, 33rd, and 36th in even strength points.

I'm not saying we're 1 piece away from contending and I don't think we are just "wait for our prospects to arrive" away from contending unless we hit real big on at least 1 of Snuggy or Dvorsky. Even then we need to add a top pair LD and fix the system.

But I firmly believe we can build a winner around Buch, Thomas, Kyrou, Parayko, Faulk, a top pair LD (who isn't a #1), and our existing prospects. I don't believe we need to supplement them with another top 10 pick given our ability to draft and develop mid-late 1st round talent.

I think I would have a much easier time buying into that notion if we had a top 10 D. Vegas clearly had that with Petro and also had Theodore who isn’t shabby.

Eichel may not have been great in the regular season, but he came to play in the playoffs and I think he always had it in him to be that guy. I think we will see more from him in the regular season moving forward now that he is healthy.

 

[PJJJP]

Honestly with the way things went and from what some insiders are saying I wouldn't be surprised if Sanheim wasn't that expensive. I mean insiders don't know everything and there is always some agenda they are playing at whether for themselves or from a team/agent but he said that "the flyers tried to give Sanheim away and nobody bit". It was also retweeted by the local philly reporters. I really think his contract is hurting his value

 

[Linkens Mastery]

TankTown Express is coming back next year. Letsgoooooo

 

[Hrkac Circus]

TankTown Express is coming back next year. Letsgoooooo

Play like a weenie for Celebrini!

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Play like a weenie for Celebrini!

In looking at Levshunov, Kiviharju, and Buium

 

[BlueDream]

FWIW, just saw a clip of Pagnotta saying Krug loves it here. No idea if that's his speculation or if he has knowledge of Krug basically just wanting to stay here. I'm definitely not banking on being able to move Krug, but it'll be interesting to see what happens once money starts moving on July 1.

It really is a shame how amazing us Blues fans are that it makes him want to stay.

I bet if we were more like Avs fans he would have waived his NTC by now.

 

[Blueston]

In looking at Levshunov, Kiviharju, and Buium

Should be good options if we pick in top 15 again. I haven't really done much of a dive into the class yet (and won't for quite a while), but i want to throw out another name. Adam Jiricek. David's little brother impressed me a great deal at u18s.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Should be good options if we pick in top 15 again. I haven't really done much of a dive into the class yet (and won't for quite a while), but i want to throw out another name. Adam Jiricek. David's little brother impressed me a great deal at u18s.

I'm 100% cool with throwing this upcoming season into the trash compactor to try to get another top 10 pick to grab our defenseman. The only think I worry about is if we do suck again. Does Buch want out. Tho, he would bring back a friggin haul.

 

[kimzey59]

In looking at Levshunov, Kiviharju, and Buium

Definitely a year to follow the defensemen. Deep draft on the blueline next year.

But to be honest; I'm looking more at the big boys(as in the 6'2" and up crowd).
Sam Dickinson, Tommie Lavoie, Carter Yaremchuk, Niilopekka Muhonen, Dominik Badinka, Luke Fischer, Stian Solberg
I get that the "new NHL" needs mobile D men, but there's still something to be said for sheer wingspan.

 

[Brian39]

with the move the blues have made, not least of which is coaching changes, i think current roster (yes, with krug) can compete for a playoff spot this year. i think we fall short, but wouldn't be shocking if we make it. this of course assumes that we reclaim our traditional identity and are more engaged defensively and not the train wreck we were last year.

but i don't think we are legit contender. and i don't think adding guy like lindholm makes us one. and i don't think that hanifan or sanheim do either (although at right price i would endorse either or both). what makes us legit contender is that we are building talented young stable to add to our current team over the next few years. if dvo and snuggy and a couple others hit and join kyrou and thomas (who both need to take next step that they have teased) and buchy etc.. we will have a championship level forward group. i'm not convinced that our d core will be, but if we can add another legit top pair guy (whether through trade or draft pick or one of our kids hitting) to what we have then we could be.

no guarantees, but this is why i think best move for us at this point is asset accumulation. if we can swap bolduc and another asset for appropriate aged d then i would do it, but dealing for big $ guys in their 30s isn't path i think we should be taking.

Agreed and I view Sanheim, Hanifin, or any other LHD as a long term play more than a "contend in 2023/24" play.

He talks about wanting to compete next year but the harsh truth exist that as is the Blues forward core is worse than it was last year and defense core would be only slightly improved with acquiring Sanheim.

Hard disagree with all of this.

ROR was clearly not right last year. He played at a 40 point pace and wasn't nearly as effective defensively as his normal self. Tarasenko played at a 20 goal and 60 point pace and was disengaged way more often than in the past. Barby was good in his role but wasn't producing like the year before. Acciari was very good in a 4C role. All were gone with 20+ games left in the season.

They have been replaced with Vrana, Kap, Blais, Hayes, and Alexandrov. Vrana provided a noticeably better scoring ability than Tarasenko did last year and provides a PP one time option that just didn't exist in our lineup last year. Hayes was noticeably better offensively than last year's ROR. Kap and Blais were both effective middle 6 wingers with Kap scoring at a higher rate than Barby. The forward core is worse than the way our forwards played in 2021/22, but not the version of the forward core we saw last year.

Some things have to break right and I don't expect it to be a top 5-10 group. There are issues and there will be inconsistency. But the ROR and Tarasenko we got last year weren't the game changers we remember them as and Barby wasn't as good as he was in 2021/22. We got 32 goals and 77 total points from that trio.

Replacing Krug with a legit #2 defensively sound LD would be a huge upgrade. Krug was awful at even strength last year. He hemorrhaged goals/chances against in the most sheltered usage in the league and his 41 point pace didnt remotely make up for that. We used him as a #5 D man. Behind Parayko/Faulk/Leddy, we didn't have a D man that played top 4 minutes at even strength. Having 4 top 4 D instead of 3 would be a significant improvement.

ROR, Tarasenko, and Krug all had career worst seasons during their time with the Blues last year. They were a combined -68. Barby was good, but not irreplacebly good. He was a -10. We got badly outscored with these guys on the ice last year. They are better players than that, but they didn't help our offense win games last year. When comparing the new group to last year's departures, you have to compare them to the contributions we got from those departures, not the guys they were in years prior.

 

[Xerloris]

RoR is one of the top defensive forwards in the league, and a Selke consideration nearly every year. His value to the team, especially in the playoffs, is somewhat different than your top offense first forwards. His presence was definitely one of the deciding factors in that cup run, which we cannot hope to replicate currently.

Tarasenko that year was also exceptional, maybe not having as gaudy numbers, but dragged the team to a number of victories at critical junctures. He was instrumental, for example, in that long winning streak in Jan that basically pulled us from basement dweller status into a playoff position. We also do not have that type of player currently on the team. However good Kyrou is right now, he just doesn't have that extra gear that Tank exhibited.

Who gives a shit? The dude was saying we didn't have a top 30 scorer then tries to change his statement. This isn't about anything other than scoring.

 

[Celtic Note]

In the regular season I believe ROR scored at a .93 PPG pace and in the playoffs it was .88 PPG so he didn't really up his game in he playoffs. My math could be off of course.

He did up his game though. Defensively he was a monster and his dip in points was marginal (and that’s not discounting the rib issue he felt with). I would argue that he was in fact a better overall player in the playoffs. He was also offensively clutch.

 

[bleedblue1223]

If we are comparing ROR's Blues regular season stats and ROR's Blues playoff stats, he does up his offensive production, and that's even I even exclude his disaster of a season last year, which will help boost his regular season numbers. In the playoffs for us, he scored 49 points in 51 games, a .96 ppg rate, and 250 points in 287 games in regular season a .87 ppg rate.

And his line was instrumental in shutting other top lines down like the Bergeron line in the Finals or the MacKinnon line in 21/22.

I'm not a big supporter of pointing at specific players and saying they will never be a playoff gamer, just look at Oshie's numbers with us in the playoffs vs in Washington. The main point, is that the team as currently constructed is more than just a top 4 LD away from contending. For us to contend, we need to add that LD and then hope that group significantly elevates their play, Hofer develops into a #1, Dvorsky hits his ceiling of a Kopitar/ROR type #1 C, and one of Snuggerud/Bolduc becomes a high-end NHL scorer. Buchnevich's future is another big x-factor in all this.

 

[Xerloris]

He did up his game though. Defensively he was a monster and his dip in points was marginal (and that’s not discounting the rib issue he felt with). I would argue that he was in fact a better overall player in the playoffs. He was also offensively clutch.

Wow you really gave up on your whole narrative fast. You're moving goal posts so fast you don't even know where you're going. Just admit having a top 30 scorer doesn't matter.

If we are comparing ROR's Blues regular season stats and ROR's Blues playoff stats, he does up his offensive production, and that's even I even exclude his disaster of a season last year, which will help boost his regular season numbers. In the playoffs for us, he scored 49 points in 51 games, a .96 ppg rate, and 250 points in 287 games in regular season a .87 ppg rate.

And his line was instrumental in shutting other top lines down like the Bergeron line in the Finals or the MacKinnon line in 21/22.

Still not the point. Celtic was crying that we suck because we don't have a top 30 scorer and I said in the cup year we didn't either and now he's moved the goal posts so far trying to make himself correct that now it's about ROR being a defensive monster, which btw still isn't scoring.

 

[Celtic Note]

Who gives a shit? The dude was saying we didn't have a top 30 scorer then tries to change his statement. This isn't about anything other than scoring.

The top 30 in scoring amongst forwards is a proxy for an elite forward. It doesn’t account for unique circumstances like a player who is exceptional defensively. I don’t have the time or desire to construct some belabored matrix of quintessential traits that compose an elite forward and then run that analysis. If someone else does have that time and desire, then I would love to see it. It would certainly facilitate some really interesting discussion.

 

[Celtic Note]

Wow you really gave up on your whole narrative fast. You're moving goal posts so fast you don't even know where you're going. Just admit having a top 30 scorer doesn't matter.



Still not the point. Celtic was crying that we suck because we don't have a top 30 scorer and I said in the cup year we didn't either and now he's moved the goal posts so far trying to make himself correct that now it's about ROR being a defensive monster, which btw still isn't scoring.

Wow you really gave up on your whole narrative fast. You're moving goal posts so fast you don't even know where you're going. Just admit having a top 30 scorer doesn't matter.



Still not the point. Celtic was crying that we suck because we don't have a top 30 scorer and I said in the cup year we didn't either and now he's moved the goal posts so far trying to make himself correct that now it's about ROR being a defensive monster, which btw still isn't scoring.

ROR was tied for top 30 in forward scoring the year we won the Cup. He then finished as the top scorer (tied) in the playoffs and played brilliant defensively. He was elite in offensive and defensive metrics.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Wow you really gave up on your whole narrative fast. You're moving goal posts so fast you don't even know where you're going. Just admit having a top 30 scorer doesn't matter.



Still not the point. Celtic was crying that we suck because we don't have a top 30 scorer and I said in the cup year we didn't either and now he's moved the goal posts so far trying to make himself correct that now it's about ROR being a defensive monster, which btw still isn't scoring.

You guys are hyper fixating on that point, his original point was simply that our current squad doesn't have any elite or game-breaking talent at any position, and becuase of that, there isn't much point in going after a Sanheim, since while it's an upgrade, it won't significantly move the needle to make us contenders.

I think we can argue that Buchnevich is that elite talent, and the counter to this is his health and contract future. Will he be around when Dvorsky is developed, and can he play a full season consistently.

The 2019 club had ROR and Petro has bonafide elite players, and then we had players/pairings performing at elite levels, Binnington and Bouwmeester/Parayko.

I can take an argument that Sanheim/Parayko could get back to what Bouwmeester/Parayko did, but Bouwmeester defensively is ahead of Sanheim IMO, but I can see the argument that they can get back to elite level defense as a pairing.

Kyrou certainly has Tarasenko type potential in terms of game-breaking ability, can argue he's already there, the issue is more his consistency. Tarasenko wasn't great defensively, but he was rarely a liability, and at times he was very strong defensively, one of the goals in game 7 was a direct result of his defensive play. That's what we need Kyrou to get to. At times he uses his speed as a defensive asset in taking pucks away, and that needs to continue.

At the center position, we need Dvorsky to hit and be a Kopitar/ROR, and Thomas needs to be able to drive the offense against top competition. I'm big fans of both, but if neither become elite, even in a specific area of the game, we do run the risk of becoming a pretender where we have a lot of good parts, but never good enough to get over the hump. Look at teams like the Jets and Wild.

 

[bleedblue1223]

To me, we are roughly 3-4 players away. Some of those can be filled by certain players making reasonable adjustments and improvements, some are prospects that need to hit their potential, and some needs some magic.

We need a #1 goalie, capable of stealing games. Binnington has shown this in the past, but he's also inconsistent. We need Hofer or Zherenko to develop.

We need a top 6 2-way/defensive center, especially to win in a division with MacKinnon and Bedard. Dvorsky I think is perfect for this, a reason I really wanted him, but it's also why it's crucial that he hits his potential for us to contend.

We need a #1 D. We've sort of flipped the script from the Backes years, where instead of chasing a #1 C, we are now chasing a #1 D, and hoping and praying that we either find one or a collection of #2s and #3s in the top 4 will be good enough. We need magic for this one, either to acquire that player, or for a collection of #2s and #3s to actually work.

More firepower. This is sort of a combo of Kyrou finding that consistency and becoming less of a liability, and guys like Snuggerud and Bolduc becoming top 6 scorers. I'm also not as worried on this part, since we can more easily acquire these pieces.

 

[TurgPavs]

Minus some depth or bottom 6 UFA's, IMO I wouldn't be surprised if Army was done.

Maybe they grab a couple guys like Sunny to fill out that bottom 6 depth, but I am thinking the major trade, i.e. Scandy, Krug, Leddy, etc. is not going to shake out. Too many teams strapped for Cap space as it is.

The Blues have 12 forwards signed, including RFA Torpo
7 Defensemen in the NHL and 8 in the AHL
Army has indicated that Hofer is going to be backing up Binny this season.

Again I think you check out Sunny and possibly add some guys like he did last season with Accari, Leivo, Pitlick.

 

[Xerloris]

ROR was tied for top 30 in forward scoring the year we won the Cup. He then finished as the top scorer (tied) in the playoffs and played brilliant defensively. He was elite in offensive and defensive metrics.

At first it was just top 30 then you have to narrow it down to top 30 forwards. I'm sure we have a player right now on this team that was top 30 in scoring too, we just have to narrow it down enough.

Top scorers that were born on january 5th 2003 on a thursday to a mother named martha whos favorite movie is superman. Am I doing it right?

You guys are hyper fixating on that point, his original point was simply that our current squad doesn't have any elite or game-breaking talent at any position, and becuase of that, there isn't much point in going after a Sanheim, since while it's an upgrade, it won't significantly move the needle to make us contenders.

I think we can argue that Buchnevich is that elite talent, and the counter to this is his health and contract future. Will he be around when Dvorsky is developed, and can he play a full season consistently.

The 2019 club had ROR and Petro has bonafide elite players, and then we had players/pairings performing at elite levels, Binnington and Bouwmeester/Parayko.

I can take an argument that Sanheim/Parayko could get back to what Bouwmeester/Parayko did, but Bouwmeester defensively is ahead of Sanheim IMO, but I can see the argument that they can get back to elite level defense as a pairing.

Kyrou certainly has Tarasenko type potential in terms of game-breaking ability, can argue he's already there, the issue is more his consistency. Tarasenko wasn't great defensively, but he was rarely a liability, and at times he was very strong defensively, one of the goals in game 7 was a direct result of his defensive play. That's what we need Kyrou to get to. At times he uses his speed as a defensive asset in taking pucks away, and that needs to continue.

At the center position, we need Dvorsky to hit and be a Kopitar/ROR, and Thomas needs to be able to drive the offense against top competition. I'm big fans of both, but if neither become elite, even in a specific area of the game, we do run the risk of becoming a pretender where we have a lot of good parts, but never good enough to get over the hump. Look at teams like the Jets and Wild.

I agree with you but Celtic is trying to be Dizee 2.0

 

[bleedblue1223]

I'm expecting that Army is done, but if he can figure out salary, I think Sanheim is 100% coming, and mainly because we might be the only team that has genuine interest in him and willing to give Philly a decent price. I'm just unsure of what Krug's market could look like after free agency opens, will it be better or worse? And, is Army only willing to consider moving Krug or is there another solution that he'd consider if Sanheim is still available later in the summer.