Blues Trade Proposals 2022-2023

[simon IC]

New season, new thread. Continue.
Link to last page of previous thread: Blues Trade Proposals 2021-2022 Part 4. Post Matt Tkachuk Edition

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[Mike Liut]

Chychrun wants to be traded to a playoff team. We interested? With Scandella on LTIR, we have some room

 

[Xerloris]

Chychrun wants to be traded to a playoff team. We interested? With Scandella on LTIR, we have some room

Carlo Colaiacovo v2

 

[Blueston]

Chychrun wants to be traded to a playoff team. We interested? With Scandella on LTIR, we have some room

No. Way too much asset cost for guy who can't stay healthy and isn't even that good to begin with.

 

[PJJJP]

Chychrun wants to be traded to a playoff team. We interested? With Scandella on LTIR, we have some room

Pretty sure he had wrist surgery recently and I wouldn't want to trade for him before he proves he can be healthy and play well

 

[rumrokh]

No. Way too much asset cost for guy who can't stay healthy and isn't even that good to begin with.

The narrative about the team he plays on explaining his performance is weird to me. Not because it's strictly wrong, but because year after year, we see the bulk of players perform basically the same from team to team unless they start or stop playing with elite linemates.

And year after year, we see fans and analysts pump the tires of a player on a bad team, assuming they'll be an asset for a better team. Chiarot is a great example of a bad player who simply continued to be bad regardless of the bizarre narrative. Leddy, as a less common counter-example, was better than advertised, but we aren't talking about a player who is expected to cost multiple high-end assets.

I definitely see the tools Chychrun brings to the table, but even completely independent of injury history, he's a spooky acquisition to me. Gives me Eric-Brewer-With-Worse-Fundamentals vibes.

 

[Blueston]

The narrative about the team he plays on explaining his performance is weird to me. Not because it's strictly wrong, but because year after year, we see the bulk of players perform basically the same from team to team unless they start or stop playing with elite linemates.

And year after year, we see fans and analysts pump the tires of a player on a bad team, assuming they'll be an asset for a better team. Chiarot is a great example of a bad player who simply continued to be bad regardless of the bizarre narrative. Leddy, as a less common counter-example, was better than advertised, but we aren't talking about a player who is expected to cost multiple high-end assets.

I definitely see the tools Chychrun brings to the table, but even completely independent of injury history, he's a spooky acquisition to me. Gives me Eric-Brewer-With-Worse-Fundamentals vibes.

Agreed. He has good size and nice skills, but he hasn't consistently been all that good of a defenseman. Do I think he would be solid top 4 guy if he had quality partner? Yes. Do I think he is legit top pairing guy? No. And you add in the injury history and it certainly needs to be buyer beware.

 

[kimzey59]

At this point, I think the focus need to be on acquiring a cost controlled top 9 forward.

Like it or not, our Defense can't absorb another body without somebody getting moved out. Not until Scandella comes off the books.

Offensively, though, we're already short one guy and it's highly likely we lose two of ROR, Vladdy and Barbashev next summer. I really think we need to start getting some contingencies in place. Half of the offense is going to need rebuilt.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I'd be all on board with acquiring Chychrun, if the cost to acquire wasn't that of someone you'd expect to be top 5 in the Norris or if he wasn't as injury prone as he was. He'd fit great next to Faulk or Parayko and has great value in his contract, but the acquisition cost is sky high.

At this point, I think the focus need to be on acquiring a cost controlled top 9 forward.

Like it or not, our Defense can't absorb another body without somebody getting moved out. Not until Scandella comes off the books.

Offensively, though, we're already short one guy and it's highly likely we lose two of ROR, Vladdy and Barbashev next summer. I really think we need to start getting some contingencies in place. Half of the offense is going to need rebuilt.

Yeah, and sort of related to this and the Chychrun talk, I'm not sure moving one of Neighbours or Bolduc is in our best interest when we need to be adding cost-controlled top 9 forwards, and depending on how things play out, cost-controlled top 6 forwards.

 

[Reality Czech]

Who would you rather have on the team next year, O'Reilly or Chychrun? It's already gonna be tight signing ROR so acquiring another expensive player would make it even less likely.

Our top 4 defense is locked in for the time being, so I think Chychrun to St. Louis isn't very likely.

 

[Xerloris]

Who would you rather have on the team next year, O'Reilly or Chychrun? It's already gonna be tight signing ROR so acquiring another expensive player would make it even less likely.

Our top 4 defense is locked in for the time being, so I think Chychrun to St. Louis isn't very likely.

ROR easily. Chychrun has to many injury issues to even entertain the idea of choosing him over ROR.

 

[Reality Czech]

ROR easily. Chychrun has to many injury issues to even entertain the idea of choosing him over ROR.

I agree, it's a no brainer to me as well.

 

[PocketNines]

About this time last year before the idea of him even being available was known, Stealth and I were envisioning trade ideas for Chychrun. As someone who helped lead that idea, I would absolutely prefer ROR. Chychrun is definitely a risk and the reported price is too high for that risk.

That said, it's random to suggest either ROR or Chychrun, as Chychrun's contract is not a burden nor would it mean ROR could not be extended.

 

[Brian39]

Who would you rather have on the team next year, O'Reilly or Chychrun? It's already gonna be tight signing ROR so acquiring another expensive player would make it even less likely.

Our top 4 defense is locked in for the time being, so I think Chychrun to St. Louis isn't very likely.

I don't think that a theoretical D addition would impact the ROR extension possibility. If we acquired a LD, I think it means that Krug or Leddy is getting shipped out. Maybe not in-season, but during the offseason. If you swap Krug/Leddy for a guy making $4-5M, that shouldn't impact the ability to extend ROR.

You can force a productive player with a NTC to give you a short list of teams to accept a trade to by threatening waivers. That's why Army is much more willing to give NTCs than NMCs. If we identify a LD upgrade, it will be possible to make it salary-neutral. But I don't see Army going down that road until next summer.

But, I agree with you about the top 4 being locked in. Krug, Leddy, Parayko, and Faulk all have full NTCs for the next 3 years. For better or worse, I just don't see Army bailing on that group without seeing them fail in a playoff series. We didn't get to see a healthy group vs Colorado and we still pushed them deep into a series. Army clearly liked what he saw out of the Leddy-Parayko pair, so I don't think he pushes for a top 4 replacement unless the group is a disaster this year.

Edit: but to answer the question, I'll take ROR at market value over Chycrun and his contract. And I'm a big fan of Chychrun and his contract. But I'll ask you a different question: If replacing Krug at $6.5M with Chychrun at $4.6M is the only way to fit in an ROR extension without gutting the depth, would you give up a 1st, Perunovich and one of Neighbours/Bolduc/Snugg to get Chychrun?

 

[Drubilly]

But I'll ask you a different question: If replacing Krug at $6.5M with Chychrun at $4.6M is the only way to fit in an ROR extension without gutting the depth, would you give up a 1st, Perunovich and one of Neighbours/Bolduc/Snugg to get Chychrun?

Absolutely. I feel it would create balance on our backend and we’re dealing from a position of strength. POS meaning we have a group of promising forwards that we can afford to lose one via trade. BA wants young, promising, and cheap assets in return to bolster his rebuild. AND we have room to extend ROR. By saving some cap space AND an increase in the salary cap (in the future) we can perhaps add a cheaper Vladi replacement. Win win in my book.

 

[PocketNines]

But I'll ask you a different question: If replacing Krug at $6.5M with Chychrun at $4.6M is the only way to fit in an ROR extension without gutting the depth, would you give up a 1st, Perunovich and one of Neighbours/Bolduc/Snugg to get Chychrun?

If we are assuming nothing of value comes back for shipping Krug out, then the value of this proposal is predicated on Perunovich not being who the Blues need him to be (very possible) such that losing him isn't a huge loss anyway.

In a situation where we were already going to be disappointed by Perunovich, the question is whether a 1st and a forward prospect for Chychrun is worth risking to upgrade Krug.

I see the risks with Chychrun. It's not an ideal circumstance into which Armstrong steered the Blues. The Blues are in a situation with no top defenseman anywhere near the organization. It's not a Cupworthy franchise situation under Armstrong.

 

[Reality Czech]

I don't think that a theoretical D addition would impact the ROR extension possibility. If we acquired a LD, I think it means that Krug or Leddy is getting shipped out. Maybe not in-season, but during the offseason. If you swap Krug/Leddy for a guy making $4-5M, that shouldn't impact the ability to extend ROR.

You can force a productive player with a NTC to give you a short list of teams to accept a trade to by threatening waivers. That's why Army is much more willing to give NTCs than NMCs. If we identify a LD upgrade, it will be possible to make it salary-neutral. But I don't see Army going down that road until next summer.

But, I agree with you about the top 4 being locked in. Krug, Leddy, Parayko, and Faulk all have full NTCs for the next 3 years. For better or worse, I just don't see Army bailing on that group without seeing them fail in a playoff series. We didn't get to see a healthy group vs Colorado and we still pushed them deep into a series. Army clearly liked what he saw out of the Leddy-Parayko pair, so I don't think he pushes for a top 4 replacement unless the group is a disaster this year.

Edit: but to answer the question, I'll take ROR at market value over Chycrun and his contract. And I'm a big fan of Chychrun and his contract. But I'll ask you a different question: If replacing Krug at $6.5M with Chychrun at $4.6M is the only way to fit in an ROR extension without gutting the depth, would you give up a 1st, Perunovich and one of Neighbours/Bolduc/Snugg to get Chychrun?

I probably wouldn't because we are going to need that cheap depth going forward. Our prospect pool is already relatively thin, so it would be absolutely gutted to lose three quality young assets in one trade. Then again, I'm not convinced Chychrun is as good as some people claim he is.

 

[TK 421]

Pass on Chychrun, pass on BA's ridiculous demands for his always injured player.

Don't think we need a top pair guy, an upgrade for the 3rd pair with a skill set that features strong zone exits would be my target.

 

[rt]

Today’s 32 Thoughts link the Blues to Chychrun. They essentially say STL has been in this all along.

FWIW (not much) as a Yotes fan, I agree with the sentiment I read earlier in this thread regarding Neighbours and Bolduc being too important to move. Those ELCs will be important very soon, and the Blues have invested so much in their development already. It just doesn’t season likely that STL would move either, at this point.

Additionally, I can’t see them moving Snuggerud, having just drafted him this summer. Doesn’t seem realistic. That’s just not done. Not often, anyway. I wouldn’t expect it.

Yet, Marek and Friedman have been saying for nearly a year now that AZ’s price is set and unchanging and believed to be a young NHLer (worth about a 1st), a top prospect (worth about a 1st), and a 1st.

…

I’ve heard BA mention Hofer by name in two separate interviews this summer, citing him as an example of the smart way to make a good goalie pick.

I remember after Perunovich was drafted, BA saying that they weren’t going to leave without him. Had his name stitched onto the jersey for a day two pick. STL brass felt they had the inside track on a major steal. He cautioned at the time that even though he was older, he’d have a longer path.

Since then, I’ve heard him reference Perunovich in interviews as an example of the benefit of having a large brain-trust of hockey minds involved in leadership. Stated Tkachuk and I think MacInnis were the first get really excited about Perunovich. And then the rest of the staff was brought around and there was consensus.

…

I don’t see Perunovich or Hofer being worth a 1st, though. Together? Sure. I’d be willing to consider the pair of them roughly equivalent to a 1st.

There were rumors out of Ottawa (and Columbus) that AZ was after TWO 1sts at various points. In lieu of a top prospect. Allowing teams to hang onto their guys and deal primarily from draft capital, rather than developed assets. Which makes sense to me.

Scandella makes sense as a cap dump for Chychrun because he has that extra year on his deal and he isn’t likely to help the Blues much this season. Safe to say Chychrun would be considerably more important to Cup aspirations the next two seasons, then Scandella would be.

Scandella, Hofer, Perunovich, ‘23 1st feels like it’s close. I’m just not sure what the missing asset would be. Many Yotes fans would say Neighbours, Bolduc, or Snuggerud. I wouldn’t. Blues fans might say it’s just a ‘24 2nd. I’m not sure that’s enough given the rumors about the ask.

Maybe AZ can get that to be a ‘24 1st if they add Prosvetov and a 3rd? Something like that. Some concession on the AZ side of things.

…

Too big and too messy but as a thought experiment:

To STL
Chychrun
Prosvetov
Dineen
EDM ‘24 3rd
SJS ‘24 4th

To ARI
Scandella
Hofer
Perunovich
STL ‘23 1st
STL ‘24 1st

 

[bleedblue1223]

I imagine it's similar to the Tkachuk talk, where we are 100% involved, but not the most involved team at anyone point. Army would probably love to add Chychrun, but will only act if the market comes to the price he's willing to pay.

 

[PocketNines]

LOL Scandella is out for the year and you're on record saying you would either get use out of Scandella as a player or trade him, and yet when he goes into all your proposals, you make sure that the Blues are paying the Coyotes to take him.

This is at least the fourth time I've confronted you about this, and you won't stop doing it. What makes it extra funny this time is you're coming onto the Blues board to do it in the week after the big news is Scandella is out for the year.

You mention Bill Armstrong has designs on Blues prospects he covets. Then you conclude that the two of them together might equal a first because apparently in your world, while your GM highly values them, he only highly values them in the apparent context where the Blues have abandoned valuing them. It's squirrelly, weaselly. Then of course you add on how we have to pay you to take Scandella and that's how we end up shipping two firsts for Chychrun and two prospects.

Seriously, GTFO with your garbage proposals.

 

[Reality Czech]

Today’s 32 Thoughts link the Blues to Chychrun. They essentially say STL has been in this all along.

FWIW (not much) as a Yotes fan, I agree with the sentiment I read earlier in this thread regarding Neighbours and Bolduc being too important to move. Those ELCs will be important very soon, and the Blues have invested so much in their development already. It just doesn’t season likely that STL would move either, at this point.

Additionally, I can’t see them moving Snuggerud, having just drafted him this summer. Doesn’t seem realistic. That’s just not done. Not often, anyway. I wouldn’t expect it.

Yet, Marek and Friedman have been saying for nearly a year now that AZ’s price is set and unchanging and believed to be a young NHLer (worth about a 1st), a top prospect (worth about a 1st), and a 1st.

…

I’ve heard BA mention Hofer by name in two separate interviews this summer, citing him as an example of the smart way to make a good goalie pick.

I remember after Perunovich was drafted, BA saying that they weren’t going to leave without him. Had his name stitched onto the jersey for a day two pick. STL brass felt they had the inside track on a major steal. He cautioned at the time that even though he was older, he’d have a longer path.

Since then, I’ve heard him reference Perunovich in interviews as an example of the benefit of having a large brain-trust of hockey minds involved in leadership. Stated Tkachuk and I think MacInnis were the first get really excited about Perunovich. And then the rest of the staff was brought around and there was consensus.

…

I don’t see Perunovich or Hofer being worth a 1st, though. Together? Sure. I’d be willing to consider the pair of them roughly equivalent to a 1st.

There were rumors out of Ottawa (and Columbus) that AZ was after TWO 1sts at various points. In lieu of a top prospect. Allowing teams to hang onto their guys and deal primarily from draft capital, rather than developed assets. Which makes sense to me.

Scandella makes sense as a cap dump for Chychrun because he has that extra year on his deal and he isn’t likely to help the Blues much this season. Safe to say Chychrun would be considerably more important to Cup aspirations the next two seasons, then Scandella would be.

Scandella, Hofer, Perunovich, ‘23 1st feels like it’s close. I’m just not sure what the missing asset would be. Many Yotes fans would say Neighbours, Bolduc, or Snuggerud. I wouldn’t. Blues fans might say it’s just a ‘24 2nd. I’m not sure that’s enough given the rumors about the ask.

Maybe AZ can get that to be a ‘24 1st if they add Prosvetov and a 3rd? Something like that. Some concession on the AZ side of things.

…

Too big and too messy but as a thought experiment:

To STL
Chychrun
Prosvetov
Dineen
EDM ‘24 3rd
SJS ‘24 4th

To ARI
Scandella
Hofer
Perunovich
STL ‘23 1st
STL ‘24 1st

If that's the price then I hope Army loses BA's phone number. I hope the Coyotes get what they are asking for Chychrun, but I also hope it's not from the Blues.

 

[Brian39]

If that's the price then I hope Army loses BA's phone number. I hope the Coyotes get what they are asking for Chychrun, but I also hope it's not from the Blues.

If Army was willing to pay such a price then we wouldn't have acquired and extended Leddy. That price would have gotten the deal done mid-season last year. That price would have gotten the deal done at the draft. We wouldn't pay it while we had a gaping hole in the blueline and choose to give less assets up for Leddy. Approaching free agency, we remained unwilling to pay that price even though there was no assurance that Leddy was going to return (remember, he signed on the day free agency opened).

I don't see any reason that the Blues would pay that price in the near future after committing 4 years and a NTC to Leddy if we weren't willing to pay it last season or this summer. I like that B Army is asking for a ton and (so far) is holding firm on the ask. He can take the next 1-2 years trying to find the right deal. If it doesn't work out, he'll still be able to get a 1st and a decent prospect for him as a rental (more as a 1.5 year rental with retention). But I agree with you that I'm happy the Blues won't be meeting his asking price.

 

[Reality Czech]

If Army was willing to pay such a price then we wouldn't have acquired and extended Leddy. That price would have gotten the deal done mid-season last year. That price would have gotten the deal done at the draft. We wouldn't pay it while we had a gaping hole in the blueline and choose to give less assets up for Leddy. Approaching free agency, we remained unwilling to pay that price even though there was no assurance that Leddy was going to return (remember, he signed on the day free agency opened).

I don't see any reason that the Blues would pay that price in the near future after committing 4 years and a NTC to Leddy if we weren't willing to pay it last season or this summer. I like that B Army is asking for a ton and (so far) is holding firm on the ask. He can take the next 1-2 years trying to find the right deal. If it doesn't work out, he'll still be able to get a 1st and a decent prospect for him as a rental (more as a 1.5 year rental with retention). But I agree with you that I'm happy the Blues won't be meeting his asking price.

Agree with this and what @bleedblue1223 said. Obviously Chychrun is a better player than Leddy, but is the difference big enough to justify giving up the equivalent of 3 1sts?

A team on the cusp of a championship like Tampa can afford to make a deal like that, or maybe a team with a stacked cupboard of prospects and draft picks (like Ottawa or LA maybe?). However, where the Blues are at I don't think we can afford to trade that much for almost anyone, let alone a guy with as many question marks as Chychrun. Especially if we would need to make other deals to facilitate the move, like trading Krug or something like that.

I listened to the 32 Thoughts podcast earlier today and while they did mention the Blues have been interested in Chychrun for a while, I didn't get the sense they felt we were ever close or even the front-runner. They did bring up the fact that the Ellis situation might make teams hesitant to trade a big package for a player with potential injury concerns.

 

[Brian39]

Agree with this and what @bleedblue1223 said. Obviously Chychrun is a better player than Leddy, but is the difference big enough to justify giving up the equivalent of 3 1sts?

A team on the cusp of a championship like Tampa can afford to make a deal like that, or maybe a team with a stacked cupboard of prospects and draft picks (like Ottawa or LA maybe?). However, where the Blues are at I don't think we can afford to trade that much for almost anyone, let alone a guy with as many question marks as Chychrun. Especially if we would need to make other deals to facilitate the move, like trading Krug or something like that.

I listened to the 32 Thoughts podcast earlier today and while they did mention the Blues have been interested in Chychrun for a while, I didn't get the sense they felt we were ever close or even the front-runner. They did bring up the fact that the Ellis situation might make teams hesitant to trade a big package for a player with potential injury concerns.

My "read between the lines" take from listening to 32 Thoughts in the past is that we made our final pitch before moving on to Leddy. I bet we made a good offer, that ultimately fell short. I'm guessing we offered something like a 1st, Perunovich and Sunny, but wouldn't include one of the big prospects. When our offer got rejected, we moved on offered a lesser package to Detroit for Leddy.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if talks started back up near the draft, but never got serious again. Armyu has consistently held firm to his value. Chychrun was never coming here while B Army was doing the same.