OT: Blues #1 goaltender Allen vs. Hutton?

[Majorityof1]

To the people saying we should fix scoring before we address goaltending, you are ignoring the impact bad goaltending has on scoring. If a goalie lets in bad goals and you get down 2 quickly, the other team can shut the game down, focus on possession and defense, basically turtle. Not turtle like we do where we just dump the puck and run back, so our goalie faces 3 times the number of shots, but truly play a defensively focused game to stifle scoring. Bad goals and being down lessens morale and kills momentum, making good offense less likely to happen. Further, players are less likely to take risks if they don't trust their goalie. D won't pinch if they know there goalie has 0% chance to stop an odd-man rush going the other way. Our offense was great early because our D were engaged and willing to take calculated risks. When you don't trust your goalie, you don't take those risks.

That's not to say the scoring is all on the goalie, or even mostly on the goalie. But why ignore one big issue just because we have another big issue, when those issues are inter-related in some respects?

 

[Ranksu]

Honestly I’d say yes. STL is still close to his house/family/business in Nashville. If he was 4 years younger I can see him chasing a huge payday. But at his age, I just don’t see any other GMs offering sizeable term and money for someone who has spent their whole life as a backup.

How it would work out if we ride with Allen and Hutton. Then if we clearly see Husso is playing in AHL well and can give call him up if there is no injuries?

 

[PiggySmalls]

How it would work out if we ride with Allen and Hutton. Then if we clearly see Husso is playing in AHL well and can give call him up if there is no injuries?

I guess that would be worse case scenario. But I think if we see Hutton signed it will signal DA trying to move Allen.

 

[Ranksu]

Hmm, I would like to see Husso get 1-2 games in NHL level before regular season ends. Give Husso well deserved change to play NHL level. Give kid a boost for off-season training, let him know what areas he needs to improve.

 

[Shwabeal]

Hmm, I would like to see Husso get 1-2 games in NHL level before regular season ends. Give Husso well deserved change to play NHL level. Give kid a boost for off-season training, let him know what areas he needs to improve.

I'd imagine that they would probably give him a look if the playoffs are out of the question. If they're within striking distance with 4-5 games left, I think they'll roll with Hutton/Allen. If they're out of it, there's no downside to letting him get a start or two.

 

[DeuceNine]

Hmm, I would like to see Husso get 1-2 games in NHL level before regular season ends. Give Husso well deserved change to play NHL level. Give kid a boost for off-season training, let him know what areas he needs to improve.

Only way that can happen is if we're comfortably in a playoff spot. Until that happens, only one guy should be in the pipes. I'ts less than 17 games right... Hutts can handle that.

 

[BlueDream]

To the people saying we should fix scoring before we address goaltending, you are ignoring the impact bad goaltending has on scoring. If a goalie lets in bad goals and you get down 2 quickly, the other team can shut the game down, focus on possession and defense, basically turtle. Not turtle like we do where we just dump the puck and run back, so our goalie faces 3 times the number of shots, but truly play a defensively focused game to stifle scoring. Bad goals and being down lessens morale and kills momentum, making good offense less likely to happen. Further, players are less likely to take risks if they don't trust their goalie. D won't pinch if they know there goalie has 0% chance to stop an odd-man rush going the other way. Our offense was great early because our D were engaged and willing to take calculated risks. When you don't trust your goalie, you don't take those risks.

That's not to say the scoring is all on the goalie, or even mostly on the goalie. But why ignore one big issue just because we have another big issue, when those issues are inter-related in some respects?

I can't believe how many people don't realize this.

I see it on Twitter all the time. All the Allen apologists ripping the team for not scoring in a 4-0 loss.

Uh yeah our offense sucks, that doesn't mean our goaltending doesn't. I will never understand why it has to be one or the other.

Anyways, Allen sucks. Roll with Hutton this year and get a new goalie in the offseason, whether it's Husso or someone from another team like Grubauer/Lehner.

 

[badboy1994]

Y’all want Kari from the stars ? Lol

He is top 5 in goals against this year

 

[PiggySmalls]

Y’all want Kari from the stars ? Lol

He is top 5 in goals against this year

Depends on what he will resign for. He proved this year that he is a system goalie that can be serviceable behind a structured D. I hope he doesn’t think he gonna get anything remotely near $5 Mil.

 

[TruBlu]

Depends on what he will resign for. He proved this year that he is a system goalie that can be serviceable behind a structured D. I hope he doesn’t think he gonna get anything remotely near $5 Mil.

We've not consistently had that this season. That's part of the problem.

 

[badboy1994]

Depends on what he will resign for. He proved this year that he is a system goalie that can be serviceable behind a structured D. I hope he doesn’t think he gonna get anything remotely near $5 Mil.

There are rumors that he will sign with the stars for 2 years at 5million = 2.5 mil a year cap hit. Though he might test the market

 

[PiggySmalls]

There are rumors that he will sign with the stars for 2 years at 5million = 2.5 mil a year cap hit. Though he might test the market

That’s seems like a reasonable cap hit for his play.

 

[BlueDream]

Easy pass on Lehtonen. He's like Allen and will be going on 35. Not worth spending money on.

 

[Celtic Note]

The idea that we as Blues fans have grown to used to perfect goaltending might be the most insane take I've seen on this board. WE ARE BLUES FANS! The best goaltender we've had in the last 20 years was Brian Freaking Elliot, and 2nd place is a tossup between Chris Osgood, Chris Mason, Jaroslav Halak, and Jake Allen. Save for a couple runs from Elliot and this from Hutton we have not had elite goaltending at almost any point in our franchises history. We don't need Jake Allen to be perfect, but if he could stop giving in a soft goalie just about every single time he plays, that would be awesome. If his positioning wasn't in the debate for worst among all starters in the NHL right now, that would also be awesome. I can't give full points to the "Well if our offense showed up maybe Allen wouldn't have looked so bad!" when Allen has consistently looked pretty bad for over 2 months now. As said, our forwards right now are crap, but that does not excuse we've done this same song and dance with Allen in both the years he was supposed to be locked into being our No.1 goalie.

We have had elite goaltending in this franchise’s history. Hall, Plante, Luit, and one could argue Joseph (he is in the Hall after all). Fuhr was elite, though not when he was here. Needless to say, elite goaltending is not a necessity to win the Cup. Osgood and Crawford are examples of that. There are plenty more as well.

I do agree that over the last 20 years, goaltending hasn’t been our strong suit. But, a guy like Elliot should have been enough when he was on his game. Allen was good enough last year. See Crawford’s runs as examples of why.

This year is a mess though. Allen looks terrible and mismanaged. Now, Hutton is coming back down to earth. Honestly though, Yeo hasn’t given Hutton enough rope with consistency in my opinion. And, I wish his strategy to get Allen back on track was different as well. Huge time periods off never seem to work for goalies. They should have let Hutton take a good share of games, but put Allen in at least once a week against the weaker teams to build his confidence back up. It could have also built the teams confidence in being able to bounce back after bad goals. That tasks doesn’t feel so insurmountable against lesser opposition.

 

[Celtic Note]

Easy pass on Lehtonen. He's like Allen and will be going on 35. Not worth spending money on.

Lehtonen is not a goalie we need!

 

[TK 421]

I'm ready to move on from Allen but if we can't find a taker for his contract then I think we should let Hutton walk and bring Husso up to back up Allen. I know thats a gamble, but I'm tired of the same groundhog day approach. Plenty of teams have trusted a young goalie and been rewarded for it. I'd like to see a bold move made by this club. That way if/when Allen falters a potential future starter is the one getting minutes instead of yet another career backup padding his stat line in anticipation of his next deal in FA.

 

[TruBlu]

I'm ready to move on from Allen but if we can't find a taker for his contract then I think we should let Hutton walk and bring Husso up to back up Allen. I know thats a gamble, but I'm tired of the same groundhog day approach. Plenty of teams have trusted a young goalie and been rewarded for it. I'd like to see a bold move made by this club. That way if/when Allen falters a potential future starter is the one getting minutes instead of yet another career backup padding his stat line in anticipation of his next deal in FA.

There are some teams that would take Allen in a heartbeat. His contract is not that bad. Some team would easily take a chance on him. He's shown greatness at times. My question is who fills his shoes? You can't expect Carter to be the guy in a full season. He's never done it before. I'm not saying he can't, but believe me this board would turn on him in a second if he started to faulter, and we'd have no one to blame but our own impatience. Also, throwing Husso in before he's been adequately developed would be the best way to ruin him as a goalie.

 

[TK 421]

There are some teams that would take Allen in a heartbeat. His contract is not that bad. Some team would easily take a chance on him. He's shown greatness at times. My question is who fills his shoes? You can't expect Carter to be the guy in a full season. He's never done it before. I'm not saying he can't, but believe me this board would turn on him in a second if he started to faulter, and we'd have no one to blame but our own impatience. Also, throwing Husso in before he's been adequately developed would be the best way to ruin him as a goalie.

I feel Husso is adequately developed at this point. Guy was a pro in Finland before coming to NA. If we moved Jake we'd need to bring another starter in or re-sign Hutton. In any case I want Husso in as the 2nd guy.

 

[WATTAGE4451]

Honestly I’d say yes. STL is still close to his house/family/business in Nashville. If he was 4 years younger I can see him chasing a huge payday. But at his age, I just don’t see any other GMs offering sizeable term and money for someone who has spent their whole life as a backup.

I agee with this assessment. He has been in the league for awhile so not all teams will overreact to sample size and most would just sign as backup. Hed get a few offers for a starting job for some teams with bad goal situations hoping to maybe catch fire on a cheap option but he wouldnt really get big money or longterm commitment anymore than we would give.

 

[ChuckLefley]

Why is it when people discuss the D not taking the man in front or the puck being deflected when Allen is in goal they are called Allen apologists, it when the same goals are given up by Hutton it’s the fault of the D or a bad deflection?

Double standards seen to be the norm.

 

[TheDizee]

cause people hate allen here because he ran the worlds most mediocre goalie, brian elliott, out of town.

all i ask for is my goalie to not give up any soft garbage. this is especially true right now since the blues are beaten down and have the confidence of a fat kid trying to get a date for prom. allen cannot provide that right now, so that is why hutton will get the bulk of the starts remaining until we fall 6-8 points out of a spot.

 

[Ranksu]

Well that is great story be told. Allen gets pumped down when new finnish kid comes and takes his #1 goaltender spot from him.

If Allen can't find his A+ game or some cosistenct in his game at next off-season, he's career back-upper.

 

[c-carp]

Right now it’s Hutton by miles but I am not convinced he is a number one. Allen seems to be the classic athlete who looks the part but has a 5 cent head and I am done w him. You may need 2 goalies in the off season at a minimum you need one.

 

[GoldenSeal]

When it comes to Elliott, my opinion is that I consider Jake Allen = Brian Elliott.

When they're on their game, I'd tip the hat a little more (not much tho) to Elliott because he has an insane ceiling when he catches fire. Allen, not so much imo, but when hot. either netminder can carry and do the impossible, but they're really the same netminder and there's not much difference beyond Elliott having won the Jennings (with Halak) and Elliott having more Blues records than Allen, fluke or not and an All-Star appearance (which really means nothing in the current format). Regardless, to me, they're the same guy.

Carter Hutton seems to follow along the same lines as them as well. I guess what I'm saying is that the Blues honestly don't have elite netminding and what was believed in Allen when he came into the league is far, far more believed in with Husso. Having offense and especially defense s*it the bed with whatever (lack of) system Yeo thinks he's running just makes those matters worse.

To make a long post even longer, I'm concerned that our farm system and development is failing at developing solid players on the farm level or if the team is simply not signing and acquiring via draft as true blue chip prospects as the scouts swear they are. We've had several, possibly including Allen, who were heavily touted and when they come up they either fall apart, don't do very well or just well enough and they rarely find their game with another team, if traded off.

Thoughts?

 

[Alklha]

To make a long post even longer, I'm concerned that our farm system and development is failing at developing solid players on the farm level or if the team is simply not signing and acquiring via draft as true blue chip prospects as the scouts swear they are. We've had several, possibly including Allen, who were heavily touted and when they come up they either fall apart, don't do very well or just well enough and they rarely find their game with another team, if traded off.

Thoughts?

Are you talking about goalies or prospects in general?

I don't think that the fans seen Allen as a great prospect until his call-up during the lockout shortened season. He steadied the ship, and the next season had an excellent year in the AHL. That's where the serious expectations on him came from.

We traded Ben Bishop because of a numbers game, and he was going to be a UFA at the end of the season. The next season he was an above average goalie in the League. Can't really argue with the development there. The funny thing is that if Elliott had been terrible to start the 11/12 season, rather than Halák, then Bishop would have been called up and would likely still be here.