OT: Blues #1 goaltender Allen vs. Hutton?

[PiggySmalls]

Ok first of all with the 2nd goal. He shouldn't have been "Trying to put a glove on it" those are the types of shots where you go into butterfly and let the ****ing shot hit your chest and then cover it. You aren't a god damn baseball catcher. I am so ****ing sick of this clown on our team.

Getting your hands in front of you and catching what you can is just become the norm. Jake’s problem with that is he has a horrible habit of ducking his head down and not tracking the puck into his glove. Finish goalies do it right, just watch Rinne or even Husso, they keep their heads up and tracks the puck into their gloves.

 

[Ranksu]

Oh the Finn love in here is serious.

 

[Captain Creampuff]

Getting your hands in front of you and catching what you can is just become the norm. Jake’s problem with that is he has a horrible habit of ducking his head down and not tracking the puck into his glove. Finish goalies do it right, just watch Rinne or even Husso, they keep their heads up and tracks the puck into their gloves.

With that much traffic you, as a goalie you shouldn't be taking the risk of hoping to catch that shot just in case a deflection might happen. This reply isn't a "hey! you're wrong!" post but as a goalie myself I've seen too many times when I was younger trying to catch pucks like that and end up whiffing on it, so I found it better to just body it down and swallow up the rebound.

 

[PiggySmalls]

I totally get where you are coming from. While it's been about 16 years since I have paid goalie on a competitive level, I still closely follow the position and the evolution of techniques. I don't know what level you played at or are playing at, but at the end of the day I see this as an advanced skill that a college/major junior/pro goalie level would seek to master. If my son ends up following in my foot steps and plays goalie, this is a technique I wouldn't teach him until he was strong in his puck tracking and catching abilities.

Here is a well thought out article about the Active glove/Kipper Catch vs. the body cradle. It would explain it better than I would.
Active Glove: “Kipper Catch" Versus Body Cradling - InGoal Magazine

Oh the Finn love in here is serious.

The history around Finnish goaltending is really cool. What Upi has done to the world of goaltending is underrated.

 

[Captain Creampuff]

I totally get where you are coming from. While it's been about 16 years since I have paid goalie on a competitive level, I still closely follow the position and the evolution of techniques. I don't know what level you played at or are playing at, but at the end of the day I see this as an advanced skill that a college/major junior/pro goalie level would seek to master. If my son ends up following in my foot steps and plays goalie, this is a technique I wouldn't teach him until he was strong in his puck tracking and catching abilities.

Here is a well thought out article about the Active glove/Kipper Catch vs. the body cradle. It would explain it better than I would.
Active Glove: “Kipper Catch" Versus Body Cradling - InGoal Magazine



The history around Finnish goaltending is really cool. What Upi has done to the world of goaltending is underrated.

That's what I'm trying to say though with how Allen throws goalie fundamentals right out the window. You would think growing up and training in NA his whole life and his goalie coaches being NA ones as well that he would instinctively body cradle on shots like that every time. Allen doesn't necessarily have a strong or weak glove hand so I would assume that he would be body cradling as opposed to Kipper Catching.

The only time I've seen Allen play fundamentally sound as a goalie was either when he was playing with Brodeur or had Brodeur come in and work with him. During his times with Brodeur you could notice Allen not being too far out of his crease like he normally would, or too deep in his crease like when Corsi was with him. His movements weren't as fast but they were more precise and technical. He moved laterally from post to post sealing them off just as any pro goalie should do. When I watch him now I just have no idea what he is doing half the time.

 

[PiggySmalls]

Yeah when it comes to Allen we both agree that he should be using the body cradle method. My point is more and more NHL goalies are switching to the active glove by choice, whether they should or shouldn't thats between them and their coach. Holtby is another one that has no business trying to use active gloves.

 

[Captain Creampuff]

I'm just a firm believer in the body cradle method just because that's how I was coached growing up. With how much the goaltending position has changed just over the past 15 or so years I can see why younger guys are going with the more active glove. It's a faster paced game and Kipper Catching ensures there won't be a huge rebound. I may be biased because of how I was coached growing up and how my favorite goalies over the time have mainly used body cradling in high traffic situations such as the goal Allen let up. I prefer "safe" technical goalies as opposed to athletic WOWing ones.

 

[Robb_K]

Getting your hands in front of you and catching what you can is just become the norm. Jake’s problem with that is he has a horrible habit of ducking his head down and not tracking the puck into his glove. Finish goalies do it right, just watch Rinne or even Husso, they keep their heads up and tracks the puck into their gloves.

And so do Finnish goalies! Maybe Allen should spend summers training under a Suomi goaltending coach? He really needs to work on his basic skills.

 

[Robb_K]

I'm just a firm believer in the body cradle method just because that's how I was coached growing up. With how much the goaltending position has changed just over the past 15 or so years I can see why younger guys are going with the more active glove. It's a faster paced game and Kipper Catching ensures there won't be a huge rebound. I may be biased because of how I was coached growing up and how my favorite goalies over the time have mainly used body cradling in high traffic situations such as the goal Allen let up. I prefer "safe" technical goalies as opposed to athletic WOWing ones.

That's why Elliott was able to "outperform" Allen, even though he (the former) also had a couple technical weaknesses.

 

[Captain Creampuff]

LACK. OF. GOALIE. FUNDAMENTALS.

 

[Note Worthy]

LACK. OF. GOALIE. FUNDAMENTALS.

He needs to be off this team next year. I can't handle another year of Allen.

 

[Halak Ness Monster]

There's still a ton of time left in the year but Jake Allen has been terrible this year. Carter Hutton has been outstanding!

Even while Hutton has been out and the pressure has been off...Allen is struggling.

I don't see how the net isn't Hutton's to lose. He has earned it. Give it to him.

As far as I'm concerned, Allen is pretty much done in St. Louis. He has one great playoff series and a bunch of inconsistency. Time to move on...if we can.

 

[Ranksu]

After this season Allen's contract still holds 3 more seasons. That contract looks ugly. Nobody doesn't want to take that contract away. Brodeur need help Allen at off-season, go to back to basics and try to find some right groove in his performance.

We've Allen all the way. Just need to work out with him.

 

[TK 421]

I see a MAF/Murray situation developing here with Allen and Husso, hopefully with a lot of Husso starts and an eventual end of Seattle taking Allen in the expansion draft.

 

[Ranksu]

I see a MAF/Murray situation developing here with Allen and Husso, hopefully with a lot of Husso starts and an eventual end of Seattle taking Allen in the expansion draft.

You really compare Allen to MAF?

Our situation is more like Boucher/Emery/Leighton from Philly season 2009-2010.

 

[Tryblot]

You really compare Allen to MAF?

Our situation is more like Boucher/Emery/Leighton from Philly season 2009-2010.

I don't think that's what he meant but to be fair, Fleury has had plenty of moments where he was inconsistent and even cost his team a couple of series'. Who knows, maybe if jake Allen had the pens in front of him he has a couple of cups.

 

[TK 421]

I don't think that's what he meant but to be fair, Fleury has had plenty of moments where he was inconsistent and even cost his team a couple of series'. Who knows, maybe if jake Allen had the pens in front of him he has a couple of cups.

Yes exactly that, thank you.

Not really attempting to compare the players so much as a similar situation where a starter is potentially losing starts to a rookie tender.

 

[WATTAGE4451]

I don't think that's what he meant but to be fair, Fleury has had plenty of moments where he was inconsistent and even cost his team a couple of series'. Who knows, maybe if jake Allen had the pens in front of him he has a couple of cups.

fleurry has a better reputation than actual history of performance just because he played for a winning team. Fleurry is having the best year of his career this season, but if you look at fleurrys career sv% and gaa they are really not much better than allens career and he really was just an average goalie playing on a winning team. He even had some terrible playoff series where hecost his team before. Before his spectacular play this year he wasnt really that great. Even then, hes been cooling off lately.

 

[WATTAGE4451]

You really compare Allen to MAF?

Our situation is more like Boucher/Emery/Leighton from Philly season 2009-2010.

look at fleurys career stats. They arent that good. He just won because he was playing for a good team, hes not actually been that great in his career other than w-l record.

 

[GoldenSeal]

Can we focus more on getting of the glut of third line talent that we have first? I think goaltending is fine provided we have a system and the right people in it.

 

[Note Worthy]

I wouldn't say goaltending is "fine" but it's far from the only issue.

 

[Ranksu]

3-years more of Jake Allen?

Did Brodeur and Army do right choice going for Allen and not Elliott? Looking their stats they are pretty much same, they always have.

Is there word what Elliott was asking price and term if he would stay in Blues? I would take in heart beat Elliott contract 2.750mill.$ x 2-years then Jake Allen 4,350mill.$ x 4-years.

 

[wannabebluesplayer]

I still kind of think Armstrong finds a replacement for Allen, or you see Husso come up and challenge him for playing time.

 

[Ranksu]

I still kind of think Armstrong finds a replacement for Allen, or you see Husso come up and challenge him for playing time.

Last part is right and it will happend and first part will come true after Husso really beats Allen #1 goaltender, but when it happends its totally different discussion.

All depends how Yeo feels about giving Husso change to play NHL level. I see he missed great change for give kiddo real change these last games in regular season when Hutton was out. We might even see different kind of team performance when Hussou would be in net. But but if if..

 

[Majorityof1]

My #1 question every time this thread gets bumped is this: Why is discussing Blues goalies on the Blues forums considered off-topic (OT)?