Player Discussion: Blake Wheeler on Situation in Minnesota - Read Mod note in OP

[Poxsonus]

Who's the 'virtue signaling crowd'? Is it the people who step all over themselves to say 'thank you for your service' to troops? Or the ones screaming 'blue lives matter' or 'all lives matter'? Or people who proclaim themselves tough on crime?

'Virtue signaling' is probably the stupidest term that's come up in the past few years. It's only virtue signaling if you disagree with the opinion.

I agree entirely m. Could we agree to retire that and the term politically correct?

 

[Buffdog]

How many innocent people in jail would be too many for you?

Over 10% of persons sentenced to the death penalty in the US have subsequently been exonerated, often after decades on death row.

I've mentionned it before, but everyone should read "Mistakes Were Made, but Not by Me". It examines cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias.

Specific to this thread, there are a couple chapters on police/prosecuters and how once they decide someone is guilty, they'll find a way to prosecute them. This ties into exactly what Whillee is taking about, and is actually the root of my disdain towards police. It shines light onto the flaws of the Reid technique of interrogation, and talks about how even after many of those whose convictions were overturned, police and prosecutors who were responsible refused to accept that the person was actually innocent.

I consider this a must watch - law professor explains why you should NEVER speak to police.

After his lecture a retired cop comes up and basically starts his rebuttal with "everything he said is right, but you should talk with police anyway..."

 

[Eyeseeing]

Who's the 'virtue signaling crowd'? Is it the people who step all over themselves to say 'thank you for your service' to troops? Or the ones screaming 'blue lives matter' or 'all lives matter'? Or people who proclaim themselves tough on crime?

'Virtue signaling' is probably the stupidest term that's come up in the past few years. It's only virtue signaling if you disagree with the opinion.

Many people who you believe to disagree with you actually don’t disagree at all.
It’s the pious reactionary comments with no real actions , and a subsequent vilification of opposition or subject of the outrage.
Example BLM
Nobody with a brain in their head or a kind heart would condone the purposeful mistreatment of blacks nor should they tolerate that of any race ever.
I think 99% of us agree.
The Floyd murder which again was absolutely horrible triggered an awareness which has turned into a sweeping condemnation of police everywhere.
A few posters here are a vindictive bunch that have automatically become judge, jury and executioner when it comes to police actions.
When asked what they plan to do to further BLM no answer just attacks.
So being indignant because something was big in the media and not really doing anything about it is exactly what virtue signalling is.
All talk no action.

 

[Jets 31]

Whenever I get into 2nd amendment conversation down here I tell people that Canada’s 2nd amendment is “the right to arm bears”. I find it lightens the mood and we can move on from a discussion that will never go anywhere.

But yes, that needs to be changed but I doubt it ever will be. The money in politics will need to change first.

Maybe you guys have misunderstood since the 2nd amendment was put in and they were just saying you have the right to bare arms because long sleeves are too hot in the summer.

 

[Gm0ney]

Life is tough Whileee
So we should let everyone be free?

With a prison population of 2.2M, if 10% are innocent, then that's 220,000 innocent people behind bars. Of course, another 4.75M Americans were on probation or parole. So that's another 475,000. Of course, the 10% exonerated figure is for capital crimes for which there is a higher burden of proof.

Anyway, having a population the size of Winnipeg in prison or on probation or parole for crimes they didn't commit seems to be a big problem to me. It's at least worthy of some healthy WTF-is-going-on-here? debate and doesn't deserve to be dismissed with a handwavey "tough shit".

 

[Eyeseeing]

With a prison population of 2.2M, if 10% are innocent, then that's 220,000 innocent people behind bars. Of course, another 4.75M Americans were on probation or parole. So that's another 475,000. Of course, the 10% exonerated figure is for capital crimes for which there is a higher burden of proof.

Anyway, having a population the size of Winnipeg in prison or on probation or parole for crimes they didn't commit seems to be a big problem to me. It's at least worthy of some healthy WTF-is-going-on-here? debate and doesn't deserve to be dismissed with a handwavey "tough shit".

It’s way beyond my control and I’m not going to pretend I lose sleep over it.

I highly doubt 10% are innocent and don’t bother pulling up something from the internet or a media link because honestly part of the issues in trying to talk about anything on line involves war of the sources.

Do I like it? No

As I mentioned in the debate but you likely glossed over it , many guilty people get off on technicalities or have the financial means to lawyer up and avoid punishment.

We live in a very imperfect world.

 

[Gm0ney]

It’s way beyond my control and I’m not going to pretend I lose sleep over it.

I highly doubt 10% are innocent and don’t bother pulling up something from the internet or a media link because honestly part of the issues in trying to talk about anything on line involves war of the sources.

Do I like it? No

As I mentioned in the debate but you likely glossed over it , many guilty people get off on technicalities or have the financial means to lawyer up and avoid punishment.

We live in a very imperfect world.

If you don't care much one way or the other then why jump into the debate?

10% innocent in jail is probably low. If you're poor, you get a public defender and the system is so stacked against you it doesn't matter if you're guilty or not. Once you've got a record, good luck getting a job or turning your life around.

If you're rich, you can lawyer up and get off on technicalities...but poor black kids don't get lawyered up.

Anyway, don't lose any sleep over it.

 

[Eyeseeing]

If you don't care much one way or the other then why jump into the debate?

10% innocent in jail is probably low. If you're poor, you get a public defender and the system is so stacked against you it doesn't matter if you're guilty or not. Once you've got a record, good luck getting a job or turning your life around.

If you're rich, you can lawyer up and get off on technicalities...but poor black kids don't get lawyered up.

Anyway, don't lose any sleep over it.

I’m allowed to opine.
Do YOU lose sleep over it?
OJ who is black did just fine lawyering up.

 

[scelaton]

I’m allowed to opine.
Do YOU lose sleep over it?
OJ who is black did just fine lawyering up.

What does OJ--an exceptionally wealthy sociopath--have to do with the predicament of the vast majority of Black Americans?
Have you watched the film 13th? It might give you a perspective on the other 99%.

 

[Eyeseeing]

What does OJ--an exceptionally wealthy sociopath--have to do with the predicament of the vast majority of Black Americans?
Have you watched the film 13th? It might give you a perspective on the other 99%.

No I haven’t and I likely won’t.
Why are so many posters here mad but at the end of the day it’s meaningless dialogue.
Watching documentaries doesn’t solve a thing.
I asked a certain poster now I’m asking you , what are you doing to further this cause?
Reason I ask most if not all of us here hate racism and I guess my take is I treat everyone I come into contact with the golden rule.
Racism starts in the heart and is the byproduct of ignorance.
It’s not a government thing it’s an individual thing.
I really don’t care for blaming government or police or a large body for social injustice.
It’s has to start with us and end with us.
I’m not going to show outrage at something I already do not like.
Like I told that same poster I have my pet cause that I actively support with time and money.
I was moved many years ago and I continue to engage the issue at hand.
People need to help people not government.
Do forgive me if I don’t seem upset enough.

 

[Gm0ney]

I’m allowed to opine.
Do YOU lose sleep over it?
OJ who is black did just fine lawyering up.

Well it's one thing to opine about whether to re-sign Brossoit vs. wading into the morass of police violence and race.

I would say that the abuse of power by the state in any form is of great concern to me - and should be to us all. If we just throw our hands up and say 'well, what can you do?' then nothing will ever change...and this stuff needs to change.

Police violence is on the rise. This is from a conservative think tank in the US (so not some bleeding heart hippies):

 

[KCjetsfan]

Well it's one thing to opine about whether to re-sign Brossoit vs. wading into the morass of police violence and race.

I would say that the abuse of power by the state in any form is of great concern to me - and should be to us all. If we just throw our hands up and say 'well, what can you do?' then nothing will ever change...and this stuff needs to change.

Police violence is on the rise. This is from a conservative think tank in the US (so not some bleeding heart hippies):

yeah no kidding this isn't some bleeding hearts.... 'violent warlords in seattle' LOL

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

Well it's one thing to opine about whether to re-sign Brossoit vs. wading into the morass of police violence and race.

I would say that the abuse of power by the state in any form is of great concern to me - and should be to us all. If we just throw our hands up and say 'well, what can you do?' then nothing will ever change...and this stuff needs to change.

Police violence is on the rise. This is from a conservative think tank in the US (so not some bleeding heart hippies):

Sounds like a few punk Bolsheviks in Seattle need some relaxation time at the Guantanamo Bay all-inclusive luxury resort. I've heard the moist towel facial followed by their world-renowned jackboot massage is an especially invigorating way to start the day.

 

[Eyeseeing]

Well it's one thing to opine about whether to re-sign Brossoit vs. wading into the morass of police violence and race.

I would say that the abuse of power by the state in any form is of great concern to me - and should be to us all. If we just throw our hands up and say 'well, what can you do?' then nothing will ever change...and this stuff needs to change.

Police violence is on the rise. This is from a conservative think tank in the US (so not some bleeding heart hippies):

News flash
All violence is on the rise
But sure let’s single out the police because it’s what the cool kids do.

 

[Eyeseeing]

Well it's one thing to opine about whether to re-sign Brossoit vs. wading into the morass of police violence and race.

I would say that the abuse of power by the state in any form is of great concern to me - and should be to us all. If we just throw our hands up and say 'well, what can you do?' then nothing will ever change...and this stuff needs to change.

Police violence is on the rise. This is from a conservative think tank in the US (so not some bleeding heart hippies):

Ah the state .....are you Russian comrade?
Cop out answer
What are YOU doing about racial inequality?

 

[Eyeseeing]

yeah no kidding this isn't some bleeding hearts.... 'violent warlords in seattle' LOL

You are as guilty as many others here for sounding the alarm but not explaining exactly what you are doing to correct this great injustice.
Anybody can watch a video a blog or the news and sound like they are doing something.
Who are you blaming?
What are you doing?
Why are you shaming?
If only recent events upset you where did you stand before?

 

[Mud Turtle]

Well it's one thing to opine about whether to re-sign Brossoit vs. wading into the morass of police violence and race.

I would say that the abuse of power by the state in any form is of great concern to me - and should be to us all. If we just throw our hands up and say 'well, what can you do?' then nothing will ever change...and this stuff needs to change.

Police violence is on the rise. This is from a conservative think tank in the US (so not some bleeding heart hippies):

I think you missed his point.
The point being that it starts with each one of us and we shouldn’t waste our time waiting for the government or someone else to do our job.
Be a light out there, make a difference in other people’s lives and others will see it and be inspired to do the same.
Protesting feels good, but it’s not accomplishing much.

 

[KCjetsfan]

You are as guilty as many others here for sounding the alarm but not explaining exactly what you are doing to correct this great injustice.
Anybody can watch a video a blog or the news and sound like they are doing something.
Who are you blaming?
What are you doing?
Why are you shaming?
If only recent events upset you where did you stand before?

Listen, I get that you're selfish enough to not care about something unless it directly affects you, based on your 'shit happens' attitude you're portraying here, but just because you haven't seen what's been going on until recently does not mean some of us haven't.

To those of us who have been paying attention for years, this has just been the catalyst bringing all of this to light to everyone else. This didn't happen out of the blue, suddenly. Whether the momentum carries on remains to be seen.

I'll also disagree with your attitude that words without action are useless. Simply acknowledging issues and being willing to listen to those affected has an impact. Not everyone has the time, money or drive some of us have, but they can still make a difference in their own way.

 

[Buffdog]

News flash
All violence is on the rise
But sure let’s single out the police because it’s what the cool kids do.

Oddly enough, violent crime rate is at a long time low in America - imagine if you took major metros like Chicago, Detroit and Baltimore out. NYC has seen murder rates plummet since the 1990s.

So why is there a perception by many that it is worse now? I know the answer, but I qonder if anyone else does

 

[Eyeseeing]

Listen, I get that you're selfish enough to not care about something unless it directly affects you, based on your 'shit happens' attitude you're portraying here, but just because you haven't seen what's been going on until recently does not mean some of us haven't.

To those of us who have been paying attention for years, this has just been the catalyst bringing all of this to light to everyone else. This didn't happen out of the blue, suddenly. Whether the momentum carries on remains to be seen.

I'll also disagree with your attitude that words without action are useless. Simply acknowledging issues and being willing to listen to those affected has an impact. Not everyone has the time, money or drive some of us have, but they can still make a difference in their own way.

Fair enough.
Thanks for your answer.
We need to be the solution as you say one way or another.

 

[Tommigun]

Americans are so focused on race, it’s the only thing they see, think about and talk about. That’s holding them back and is quite racist.

 

[Gm0ney]

News flash
All violence is on the rise
But sure let’s single out the police because it’s what the cool kids do.

Oops I see this was already posted.

 

[Gm0ney]

Ah the state .....are you Russian comrade?
Cop out answer
What are YOU doing about racial inequality?

Ah police violence and racism are nothing to loose sleep over...ayak, citizen?

Anyway, I said it's something I'm concerned about - that we should all be concerned about. In a democracy, if enough people want something to change, it'll change (theoretically). It shouldn't even be a political left-right thing...everyone should want fair treatment for themselves and their fellow humans.

 

[Gm0ney]

Oddly enough, violent crime rate is at a long time low in America - imagine if you took major metros like Chicago, Detroit and Baltimore out. NYC has seen murder rates plummet since the 1990s.

So why is there a perception by many that it is worse now? I know the answer, but I qonder if anyone else does

View attachment 351318

I think one big factor would be the 24-hour news cycle and the very nature of news media to sensationalize violence in the name of drawing an audience ("Everything is Getting Better" doesn't sell a lot of newspapers). Politicians are also eager to capitalize on fear to garner votes...running on a tough-on-crime platform (and painting your opponent as soft) has been a successful election tactic forever.

 

[Duke749]

I think one big factor would be the 24-hour news cycle and the very nature of news media to sensationalize violence in the name of drawing an audience ("Everything is Getting Better" doesn't sell a lot of newspapers). Politicians are also eager to capitalize on fear to garner votes...running on a tough-on-crime platform (and painting your opponent as soft) has been a successful election tactic forever.

I think this is something everybody can agree on.