Fig
Absolute Horse Shirt
- Dec 15, 2014
- 12,995
- 8,463
TL;DR - IMO this is the first time I've seen Treliving really seem emotional vs calculating on a move. He didn't just go out, he rushed out there to nab Peters and has essentially declared he doesn't mind living and dying with this decision. This is perhaps the first time where I felt Treliving put emotion into a decision. I don't think that many others have not noticed is part of his persona. Brad often comes off as genuine, but detached after exhausting all the options. But this time it felt genuinely like he didn't give a crap what the data said and what additional options he left on the table. He wanted Peters.
That being said, Treliving essentially admitting he didn't do an exhaustive coach search before Peters IMO isn't as bad as many posters may think. IMO, Treliving probably has a file on a ton of individuals in the league and outside of the league which he compiles. I think he's probably already 70-80% done even before he starts the official work. He probably spent time asking about coaches who weren't available when he did the Gully hire and had that on hand as of now. He probably also has a massive file on Peters from his time working with him. So when he says he didn't do an exhaustive search, I'm thinking he meant it to his personal standard. He probably was at 80%, but when a more realistic (vs longshot) option at Peters was available, he dropped all the existing work and threw all his cards at Peters to see if he could win that hand.
It seemed to me previously that Treliving's totally cold and analytical approach was like someone playing with someone else's money and doing a good job. But this Peters hire feels like Treliving opening up his personal stash of cash and throwing it onto the table to have some skin in the game.
IMO Treliving's weakness often has been that he has been too conservative. His major strength has always been to admit mistake. This was apparent with the logjam of vets after his first season where we weren't expected to make ploffs. He's been shaving those contracts off ever since he started. This conservative approach also created the 3 headed goalie monster which at one point hit 4 heads.
His most aggressive moves (ignoring contracts) backfired the most. Trying to hide Byron in the minors didn't work due to the Kassian out clause Montreal had (MTL was one of the last in line for waivers. Without Kassian out clause Byron is still a Flame. Otherwise, MTL over the contract limit IIRC).
Gully vs Green seemed like the only possible hires in hindsight. There really weren't too many other options on the market at the time. I think Boudreau already had chats with Minny just like Peters did with us. In Broudreau's case, we were the crowd going, "Dang we missed him".
As they said on 960, many other teams likely inquired on Peters, but probably no one was as aggressive as Treliving in poaching the guy. That speaks volumes. This is Treliving's guy who he has chosen to live or die with in the trenches. IMO, this is first move I've felt of Treliving's that is emotional. Everything else feels calculated and smart more than vested, if that makes sense. Coaches and management were historically paid low amounts. I think that's an owner's mandate thing. I really wonder if there's an internal budget that isn't well known like other teams in the league (ie: Carolina or Ottawa) which are obvious.
Consider Treliving has been here for :
2014-2015 - Newbie GM. Everything from drafting to FA felt like it was puppeteer work by Burke. Byron was a misstep. All interviews seemed to show management felt they'd keep Byron even though they waived him. I think they wanted to have roster flexibility to exploit the 30 day aspect of the waiving rule. (They didn't need to waive him with Raymond as doing so put them 1 player below max roster limit IIRC. It was a calculated risk that blew up)
2015-2016 - Hints of Burke exist, but I felt Treliving took the reigns at this point and started showing his trading abilities. Shrewd and strong armed tactics seemed to show in the contracts. Some interviews also hint the draft also seemed like it was 100% scouting staff with nearly no management interference after the first round. I think Treliving was trying to be shrewd with Byron, but losing him scared him. I believe this is why we ended up with the 3 headed goalie monster. His conservative approach screwed up the goalies and it was a major collapse under Hartley. I think Hartley could have stayed his last season, but comments on garbage day triggered something and he was fired. Treliving flew back (from Russia? Europe?) to consummate the hire. Maybe they wanted Boudreau, but it easily looked like Minny had the inside track. Mostly minor moves, but some genius swipes for the expansion draft for McCollum and Bartkowski to meet minimum requirements.
2016-2017 - Gully hired. New goalies. Growing pains. Playoff collapse. Additions of all sorts of "middle 6 RW" none of which really panned out.
2017-2018 - Smith and Hamonic brought on perhaps as an aggregate for the missing out on the goalie Treliving wanted. Stumbled out of the gate, seemed to get on track by the TDL... then something happened. TBH, if the performance up to the TDL was an indicator, Treliving's overall moves were appropriate. But something derailed the whole thing which I think is easier to blame Gully for than anyone else.
As for Gully, I really hope someone immediately snaps him up as a AC. I think he'd been fantastic under Torts or some other cycle guy. I think he'll be around for a long time, but just needs time to marinate and develop. There is no reason to think he's a failure because he doesn't have the same level of HC experience as a guy like Mike Yeo.
That being said, Treliving essentially admitting he didn't do an exhaustive coach search before Peters IMO isn't as bad as many posters may think. IMO, Treliving probably has a file on a ton of individuals in the league and outside of the league which he compiles. I think he's probably already 70-80% done even before he starts the official work. He probably spent time asking about coaches who weren't available when he did the Gully hire and had that on hand as of now. He probably also has a massive file on Peters from his time working with him. So when he says he didn't do an exhaustive search, I'm thinking he meant it to his personal standard. He probably was at 80%, but when a more realistic (vs longshot) option at Peters was available, he dropped all the existing work and threw all his cards at Peters to see if he could win that hand.
It seemed to me previously that Treliving's totally cold and analytical approach was like someone playing with someone else's money and doing a good job. But this Peters hire feels like Treliving opening up his personal stash of cash and throwing it onto the table to have some skin in the game.
IMO Treliving's weakness often has been that he has been too conservative. His major strength has always been to admit mistake. This was apparent with the logjam of vets after his first season where we weren't expected to make ploffs. He's been shaving those contracts off ever since he started. This conservative approach also created the 3 headed goalie monster which at one point hit 4 heads.
His most aggressive moves (ignoring contracts) backfired the most. Trying to hide Byron in the minors didn't work due to the Kassian out clause Montreal had (MTL was one of the last in line for waivers. Without Kassian out clause Byron is still a Flame. Otherwise, MTL over the contract limit IIRC).
Gully vs Green seemed like the only possible hires in hindsight. There really weren't too many other options on the market at the time. I think Boudreau already had chats with Minny just like Peters did with us. In Broudreau's case, we were the crowd going, "Dang we missed him".
As they said on 960, many other teams likely inquired on Peters, but probably no one was as aggressive as Treliving in poaching the guy. That speaks volumes. This is Treliving's guy who he has chosen to live or die with in the trenches. IMO, this is first move I've felt of Treliving's that is emotional. Everything else feels calculated and smart more than vested, if that makes sense. Coaches and management were historically paid low amounts. I think that's an owner's mandate thing. I really wonder if there's an internal budget that isn't well known like other teams in the league (ie: Carolina or Ottawa) which are obvious.
Consider Treliving has been here for :
2014-2015 - Newbie GM. Everything from drafting to FA felt like it was puppeteer work by Burke. Byron was a misstep. All interviews seemed to show management felt they'd keep Byron even though they waived him. I think they wanted to have roster flexibility to exploit the 30 day aspect of the waiving rule. (They didn't need to waive him with Raymond as doing so put them 1 player below max roster limit IIRC. It was a calculated risk that blew up)
2015-2016 - Hints of Burke exist, but I felt Treliving took the reigns at this point and started showing his trading abilities. Shrewd and strong armed tactics seemed to show in the contracts. Some interviews also hint the draft also seemed like it was 100% scouting staff with nearly no management interference after the first round. I think Treliving was trying to be shrewd with Byron, but losing him scared him. I believe this is why we ended up with the 3 headed goalie monster. His conservative approach screwed up the goalies and it was a major collapse under Hartley. I think Hartley could have stayed his last season, but comments on garbage day triggered something and he was fired. Treliving flew back (from Russia? Europe?) to consummate the hire. Maybe they wanted Boudreau, but it easily looked like Minny had the inside track. Mostly minor moves, but some genius swipes for the expansion draft for McCollum and Bartkowski to meet minimum requirements.
2016-2017 - Gully hired. New goalies. Growing pains. Playoff collapse. Additions of all sorts of "middle 6 RW" none of which really panned out.
2017-2018 - Smith and Hamonic brought on perhaps as an aggregate for the missing out on the goalie Treliving wanted. Stumbled out of the gate, seemed to get on track by the TDL... then something happened. TBH, if the performance up to the TDL was an indicator, Treliving's overall moves were appropriate. But something derailed the whole thing which I think is easier to blame Gully for than anyone else.
As for Gully, I really hope someone immediately snaps him up as a AC. I think he'd been fantastic under Torts or some other cycle guy. I think he'll be around for a long time, but just needs time to marinate and develop. There is no reason to think he's a failure because he doesn't have the same level of HC experience as a guy like Mike Yeo.