Bettman confirms interest in Vegas (UPD post 607: $450-500 MM fee?)

[cbcwpg]

http://www.thestarphoenix.com/sports/ante+time+hockey+fans+Vegas/10801191/story.html

Ticket prices are expected to be on par with the NHL average in two seasons. Several types are available, with deposits available at prices of $150 US, $300, $500 and $900 and with commitments of one, three, five or 10 years.The 10 per cent deposits are binding but refundable if Las Vegas isn't awarded a team that begins play in 2016.

 

[sabresfan65]

What time does the ticket drive start today?

Best of luck guys

1:30 Pacific time

 

[HamiltonFan]

Houston and the Rockets' parent group have an ownership/operator relationship that essentially gives Alexander overwhelming say in what is, and isn't, taking place in that barn. The reason that the AHL still isn't there is primarily because the Wild didn't want to pay Alexander's increased rent amount and they subsequently moved the Aeros to Des Moines as a result, for instance.

Alexander essentially has the final say, and anything and everyone involving the NHL has to go through him to use that barn for better or worse.

Les Alexander is simply the arena operator. In this capacity, he's essentially an employee of the owner of the arena (city of Houston). The AHL issue was a simple arena operation business decision, had nothing to do with nhl hockey, or Les Alexander vetoing the Aeros out of the rink over the objection of the city. The city, as the owners of the rink, are the ultimate boss, not Les Alexander. From the arena agreement:

Arena Operator
Arena operations and management shall be conducted by a qualified operator (the "Arena Operator") to be selected by the NBA Club, which may be an affiliate of the NBA Club.
The Arena will be operated in a manner substantially similar to and consistent with that of other similarly situated multipurpose sports and entertainment arenas operated by NBA or NHL clubs or their affiliates.
In the event the Arena is not operated in accordance with the standards described above, the Sports Authority will have the right, upon reasonable cause and following applicable notice and curative opportunity to require the replacement of any employees, agents or subcontractors with immediate responsibility for the operation of the Arena (but not officers of the NBA Club or its affiliates) with persons reasonably acceptable to the Sports Authority.

If the city is unhappy with Alexander as the arena operator, then Alexander is gone, simple as that. Your claims of Alexander having the final say with regards to 'anything and everyone involving the nhl' are incorrect.

The city of Houston owns the rink, Alexander is their employee. NHL decisions are ultimately made by the city of Houston, not their employee Les Alexander. There are specific provisions in the agreement regarding the nhl. Alexander is allowed to bring in an nhl team himself if he wants, but an nhl team independent of Alexander can also pay rent and play at the arena. Alexander has no veto power as you're suggesting. From the agreement:

NHL Team
The Sports Authority's approval of an NHL Team may be made subject to payment of a one time fee to the Sports Authority in exchange for an annual operating consideration from the Sports Authority on terms to be negotiated when such approval is requested. Notwithstanding the foregoing, the NBA Club will have the right to cause an NHL team affiliated with the NBA Club to play its games at the Arena. Furthermore, the Sports Authority and the City will not provide any other owners or prospective owners of an NHL Team any advantage (economic or otherwise) over the NBA Club in bringing an NHL Team to Houston.
NHL Team's Rights
The NHL Team will be entitled to play all of its preseason, regular season and post-season home games (and any awarded all-star games) in the Arena (subject to (i) dates reserved by the NBA Club for NBA related events and (ii) other dates reserved at least nine (9) months in advance), subject to the terms of this Section.
All Arena agreements (including without limitation exclusive arrangements) with vendors, suppliers, sponsors, concessionaires, advertisers, suite holders, club seat holders and other parties will remain in effect during all NHL Team events, as will all policies established by the NBA Club for the Arena regarding crowd control, maintenance, ticketing, access, building operations, broadcasting and other operational matters.
Unless the NHL Team is owned by the NBA Club or its affiliates, the City or the Sports Authority, as applicable, may charge the NHL Team an appropriate rental in connection with the NHL Team's use of the Arena.

http://www.houstonsports.org/legal-documents/

 

[No Fun Shogun]

You're missing the point.

I didn't say that Alexander had final say, I said he essentially had the final say. Your point is true, my point is still irrefutable. What he says, goes, for the time being.

And yes, Houston can ultimately boot him if they so desire, but there hasn't been so much as a peep that that's at all a likely scenario, so even discussing it is an exercise in futility.

When you boil it all down, the NHL in Houston has, and still, comes down to one man, Les Alexander. Right now, he doesn't appear interested, whether that be as an owner, co-owner, or merely allowing a new tenant in the building, so the NHL's not going into Houston as a result.

 

[HamiltonFan]

You're missing the point.

I didn't say that Alexander had final say, I said he essentially had the final say. Your point is true, my point is still irrefutable. What he says, goes, for the time being.

And yes, Houston can ultimately boot him if they so desire, but there hasn't been so much as a peep that that's at all a likely scenario, so even discussing it is an exercise in futility.

When you boil it all down, the NHL in Houston has, and still, comes down to one man, Les Alexander. Right now, he doesn't appear interested, whether that be as an owner, co-owner, or merely allowing a new tenant in the building, so the NHL's not going into Houston as a result.

You're the one who's missing the point. The nhl in Houston most certainly doesn't boil down to Les Alexander only. Anyone interested can bring a team in and pay rent, and Mr. Alexander has NOTHING to say in the matter, no veto power over a 3rd party owning an nhl team in Houston, despite your COMPLETELY UNFOUNDED protestations to the contrary.

My original post simply stated that the nhl doesn't work in Houston, and you budded in and suggested it had to do with Les Alexander not being interested. I've provided clear documentation that any 3rd party owner can bring an nhl team to Houston, regardless of anything Alexander has to say. Les Alexander is simply the arena operator in Houston, nothing more, nothing less. He has no say whatsoever in whether or not a 3rd party ownership can bring a team to Houston.

Presently, Alexander sees no value in nhl hockey in Houston. Makes perfect sense. For the same financial reasons, no other 3rd parties see any value in nhl hockey in Houston either. The lack of 3rd party interest has nothing whatsoever to do with Les Alexander, there's just simply no interest in paying half a billion for a franchise, only to lose millions per year on top of that.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

You're missing the point.

I didn't say that Alexander had final say, I said he essentially had the final say. Your point is true, my point is still irrefutable. What he says, goes, for the time being.

And yes, Houston can ultimately boot him if they so desire, but there hasn't been so much as a peep that that's at all a likely scenario, so even discussing it is an exercise in futility.

When you boil it all down, the NHL in Houston has, and still, comes down to one man, Les Alexander. Right now, he doesn't appear interested, whether that be as an owner, co-owner, or merely allowing a new tenant in the building, so the NHL's not going into Houston as a result.

That and it says in their lease agreement that the Rockets franchise as tenant have exclusive rights to the use of the arena so it goes through them regardless of whether they oust them as arena managers.

 

[HanSolo]

I think the drive just opens up to the public today. I know a few people who have already put down deposits.

 

[HamiltonFan]

That and it says in their lease agreement that the Rockets franchise as tenant have exclusive rights to the use of the arena so it goes through them regardless of whether they oust them as arena managers.

Just another unfounded 'opinion' on this subject. I invite you to show actual proof of this, instead of simply spouting off random, unfounded, and inaccurate statements.

There's an entire section of the lease (exhibit E) that deals with the details of a 3rd party bringing in an nhl team. The Rockets sure as heck don't have veto power over bringing an nhl team to Houston. It's kind of logical to assume that the city, who paid for the rink, are the ones to make the decision on the nhl team, is it not? This isn't really complicated, it's just simple COMMON SENSE.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Again, I think you're underestimating the say that Alexander has on this situation. If it was something as easy as going about to any potential billionaire or ownership consortium, the NHL almost assuredly would've done so by now in a market the size of Houston. But Alexander's status as principal tenant and arena operator means that it does still need to go through him, and any potential third party NHL group wouldn't have access to the revenues from other arena events that are so vital for franchises to survive in many markets, Houston almost assuredly being one of them. That barrier is essentially the reason why no third party group sees the economic incentive for owning a team in that market.

So yes, Alexander's lack of interest is essentially why the NHL and Houston isn't happening any time soon.

 

[Artie Fufkin]

Just another unfounded 'opinion' on this subject. I invite you to show actual proof of this, instead of simply spouting off random, unfounded, and inaccurate statements.

There's an entire section of the lease (exhibit E) that deals with the details of a 3rd party bringing in an nhl team. The Rockets sure as heck don't have veto power over bringing an nhl team to Houston. It's kind of logical to assume that the city, who paid for the rink, are the ones to make the decision on the nhl team, is it not? This isn't really complicated, it's just simple COMMON SENSE.

Take your issue up with the Houston Chronicle

http://www.chron.com/sports/aeros/article/Houston-waiting-to-become-major-league-hockey-town-1684405.php

However, if the NHL were to settle in Houston with the Toyota Center as its home base, Schmees said Rockets owner Les Alexander would own the team — specific language was written in the Toyota Center lease saying as much. If another individual or group expressed a desire, another venue would have to be located or built.

Alexander, who has flirted with the possibility of NHL ownership on at least two occasions during the past decade, declined to comment.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Just another unfounded 'opinion' on this subject. I invite you to show actual proof of this, instead of simply spouting off random, unfounded, and inaccurate statements.

There's an entire section of the lease (exhibit E) that deals with the details of a 3rd party bringing in an nhl team. The Rockets sure as heck don't have veto power over bringing an nhl team to Houston. It's kind of logical to assume that the city, who paid for the rink, are the ones to make the decision on the nhl team, is it not? This isn't really complicated, it's just simple COMMON SENSE.

In that very lease agreement that you're going off of, the Rockets team has exclusive rights to the arena. Any and all professional sporting events plus various other shows are exclusive to the Rockets group. Yes, there is a section for a non-affiliated NHL team but it is for a use agreement with terms that are hardly conducive to a successful franchise. That's why it's pretty much up to Les to get a team in that arena.

You want to yell out common sense but you've got to do your research too.

 

[HamiltonFan]

Take your issue up with the Houston Chronicle

http://www.chron.com/sports/aeros/article/Houston-waiting-to-become-major-league-hockey-town-1684405.php

Take your issue up with the lease itself, not some reporter from Houston. There is language in the lease dealing with both Alexander, and a separate 3rd party as potential nhl owners. The part about another venue having to be built is ridiculous, just the opinion of the reporter. Read the lease and the quotes I provided earlier.

 

[Artie Fufkin]

Caesars is bankrupt right now anyway, which strengthens MGM's position in the industry

There's talk that MGM could be heading down that same road. MGM is heavily invested in the US, just like Caesars. Wynn and Sheldon Adelson are more diversified thanks to their investments in China.

 

[HamiltonFan]

In that very lease agreement that you're going off of, the Rockets team has exclusive rights to the arena. Any and all professional sporting events plus various other shows are exclusive to the Rockets group. Yes, there is a section for a non-affiliated NHL team but it is for a use agreement with terms that are hardly conducive to a successful franchise. That's why it's pretty much up to Les to get a team in that arena.

You want to yell out common sense but you've got to do your research too.

Everyone agrees that there are no terms, under any lease or any potential owner, that make owning an nhl team in Houston a financially viable proposition. My argument is simply that any outside 3rd party is free to bring in a team if they choose, WITHOUT PERMISSION from Les Alexander, and this is true.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Everyone agrees that there are no terms, under any lease or any potential owner, that make owning an nhl team in Houston a financially viable proposition. My argument is simply that any outside 3rd party is free to bring in a team if they choose, WITHOUT PERMISSION from Les Alexander, and this is true.

But that's arguing an inconsequential point, as that will never happen for financial reasons much in the same way that I shouldn't expect to sit on the street corner and wait for someone to hand me their keys to their Lamborghini. Sure, someone could do that, but nobody's actually going to.

The NHL and Houston can happen, but at this point only if Les Alexander is involved. You're arguing a point that no one was making.

 

[GuelphStormer]

The Star Phoenix: It's ante-up time for hockey fans in Vegas

Canadian poker star Daniel Negreanu knows a thing or two about odds. The Toronto native and lifelong hockey fan thinks Las Vegas has a 92.4 per cent chance of getting an NHL team.

... believes the season-ticket drive could turn up 12,500 to 13,000 deposits.

i wonder how he figured out that 92.4% chance.

Im curious about the Founding 75 and why it changed from the Founding 50.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

But, to get back on topic, as the Houston topic was apparently going nowhere, I'll be interested in hearing what all the parties say at the press conference. Bettman especially, as we might very well get a good impression on how on board he really is with this idea or if he's just open to it and there to potentially assist in drumming up interest.

 

[Artie Fufkin]

Take your issue up with the lease itself, not some reporter from Houston. There is language in the lease dealing with both Alexander, and a separate 3rd party as potential nhl owners. The part about another venue having to be built is ridiculous, just the opinion of the reporter. Read the lease and the quotes I provided earlier.

I did read the lease. No, the lease does not explicitly state that Les Alexander has the right to refuse another party from bringing in a NHL team; but if read the conditions in the lease, no owner in their right mind would agree to those terms.

Let's look at the terms.

The NHL team would get to pick dates to use the Toyota Center after the Rockets and anyother event that has reserved a date at least 9 months in advance. You do understand that most non Rocket events (WWE, Ringling Brothers, Disney on Ice, concerts, NCAA sporting events, Monster Trucks, etc.) are signed and dates reserved a year in advance? That means the NHL team would have to pick from a lot of bad days or undesirable times (i.e. plenty of Saturdays at noon).

The NHL owner also has to pay to purchase and maintain all the equipment necessary to host a hockey game. It has to pay Les Alexander every time the building has to be changed to hockey or to something else from hockey.

The hockey team gets to keep all the money from advertising it generates in the building, however, it cannot resell any permanent advertising installed by Alexander. Les Alexander owns the right to market and sell the suites in the Toyota Center. The hockey team can sell tickets to those suite holders, but if they don't buy tickets, the hockey team has no right to resell the suite.

In other words, the deal is slanted to Les Alexander to make it extremely undesirable for anyone else.

 

[BattleBorn]

Im curious about the Founding 75 and why it changed from the Founding 50.

More interest than initially expected from people of prominence here in the city.

 

[cutchemist42]

But, to get back on topic, as the Houston topic was apparently going nowhere, I'll be interested in hearing what all the parties say at the press conference. Bettman especially, as we might very well get a good impression on how on board he really is with this idea or if he's just open to it and there to potentially assist in drumming up interest.

Yep, I would be looking for body language and whats being said, and what is truly meant by whats being said. Might even be interesting to contrast it with the Winnipeg presser.

 

[GuelphStormer]

More interest than initially expected from people of prominence here in the city.

have they published the list? recognizable names?

regardless of whatever all of us opinionated goofballs outside of vegas have to say about this, I can imagine it must be a very exciting time to be a hockey fan in vegas right now.

 

[Major4Boarding]

The Star Phoenix: It's ante-up time for hockey fans in Vegas


i wonder how he figured out that 92.4% chance.

Im curious about the Founding 75 and why it changed from the Founding 50.

Here you go Stormer

The Maloofs suggested establishing the Las Vegas Founding 50. If you join the group and sell 60 season tickets, you will serve on the team's advisory board. It has been such a popular concept that it has become the Las Vegas Founding 75, including pro poker legend Daniel Negreanu and boxing champion Floyd Mayweather.

 

[PCSPounder]

Les Alexander is simply the arena operator. In this capacity, he's essentially an employee of the owner of the arena (city of Houston). The AHL issue was a simple arena operation business decision, had nothing to do with nhl hockey, or Les Alexander vetoing the Aeros out of the rink over the objection of the city. The city, as the owners of the rink, are the ultimate boss, not Les Alexander.

That's a fine academic argument. So let's lose the one franchise that ever won Houston a title just because they won't play puck. Yes, the Rockets would move, and that would upset the fans more than it would invigorate the potential hockey fans.

Practical reality is that Les Alexander runs the building because it is part of the cost to the city for having the NBA and the arena that houses it. Citing the lease agreement and the desires of the semi-engaged hockey fans there does not convince city council to go a different direction.

 

[kdb209]

Take your issue up with the Houston Chronicle

http://www.chron.com/sports/aeros/article/Houston-waiting-to-become-major-league-hockey-town-1684405.php

It's more an issue that any NHL team not owned by Alexander or which negotiates a favorable lease/revenue agreement with Alexander would be economically infeasible.

Under the terms of the Arena Letter of Agreement and Arena Lease the only arena revenues the NHL team would receive are game day ticket, concessions, parking and temporary advertising. They would receive no revenues from naming rights, fixed advertising, sponsorships, nor any non-NHL event revenues. The NBA Team/Arena Operator would still manage the arena and the NHL team would reimburse it for all its costs - labor (ushers, concessions, security, operations, etc), concessions costs, all costs w.r.t. transitioning the venue NBA->NHL->NBA, etc. The NBA team would have an absolute scheduling priority over the NHL team.

 

[HanSolo]

have they published the list? recognizable names?

regardless of whatever all of us opinionated goofballs outside of vegas have to say about this, I can imagine it must be a very exciting time to be a hockey fan in vegas right now.

Semi-exciting. I'm still worried about losing Fox sports West and prime ticket.

I was more excited for this possibility when I was younger and Vegas' name came up in an Espn report back in like 2010 about possible expansion though I think back then they were talking 4 teams.