Bettman confirms interest in Vegas (UPD post 607: $450-500 MM fee?)

[superdeluxe]

Sure that may be better for the fans. But the NHL isn't expanding for the fans. Its for the owners getting a fat payday. That's all its for.

Don't get me wrong, if it was expansion or no team, I'd be expansion 100%.

While there might be no Expansion fee, they could jack up the relocation fee as well.

Early 2015, if approved then let the lawsuits begin.

Not really worried about lawsuits TBH. I think this is one of the reasons why the city/hansen etc is doing their due diligence, they want to close any possible loopholes.

The Lawsuits have never been a concern of mine. The getting the team part has been my biggest concern.

 

[Chrisinroch]

If we add Vegas and Seattle to the Pacific, does that put pressure on the Coyotes moving to Ontario and the Central?

 

[superdeluxe]

If we add Vegas and Seattle to the Pacific, does that put pressure on the Coyotes moving to Ontario and the Central?

Then wouldn't that just unbalance the league again? I think if you use Quebec for relocation it would be for a team in the East already?

I could see Portland getting the yotes if they do need to be moved.

 

[Fugu]

Something to keep in mind for Las Vegas and being "the first"...

The NHL doesn't just have competition from the NBA. There are also plans pretty far along to try to attract a MLS team to Vegas. They just postponed a decision on whether the city would fund a new soccer stadium from dec. 1 to dec. 17 and MLS is currently deciding whether to add a team in Las Vegas, Minneapolis, or Sacramento.

Why has the NBA been avoiding Vegas? Rather telling given that basketball has a richer history there.

Still, why is that argument so compelling that it makes Vegas the #1 destination in the West? There are so many other concerns that should give pause, which automatically should lower the city on the overall list of expansion targets.

Some mention that the NHL could get $400MM+.... well, if expansion money is the greatest consideration, then TO2 is the hands' down winner. QC could easily compete.

I honestly cannot fathom the fascination with plonking down a mainstream league/sport in Sin City, with so many other options and an economy uberdependent on 40 million visitors-- all there for the sin with or without a pro sports league in the mix.

 

[Buck Aki Berg]

If we add Vegas and Seattle to the Pacific, does that put pressure on the Coyotes moving to Ontario and the Central?

If two Pacific teams get added, the Coyotes get moved to the Central anyway...

Or.... perhaps Edmonton and Calgary go to the Central (kicking and screaming) and Colorado joins the Pacific, which would keep all the divisions to two time zones or fewer)

 

[superdeluxe]

Why has the NBA been avoiding Vegas? Rather telling given that basketball has a richer history there.

I think the whole Gambling thing is one of the reasons that the NBA does not want to go there. Maybe they are worried about empty building?

 

[Mightygoose]

Then wouldn't that just unbalance the league again? I think if you use Quebec for relocation it would be for a team in the East already?

I could see Portland getting the yotes if they do need to be moved.

A Toronto 2 team could play in the central if need be. If it comes to that via a Bell/Rogers MLSE split, I think they would prefer that is would be slightly more content that having both Toronto teams in the same division.

Agreed, Portland would be a good landing spot too if it comes to that.

 

[Jesus Christ Horburn]

Things may have changed, but I remember back in 2011 when there was a lot of talk and rumor of Atlanta moving to Winnipeg, McKenzie outright said many times it wouldn't happen. Even after the formal announcement, McKenzie was still saying that someone in Atlanta could still buy the team (this is after Mark Chipman/TNSE's press conference).

McKenzie is a brilliant hockey mind, but he doesn't (at least back then) seem to know a lot about the business side of the sport.

 

[Chrisinroch]

Then wouldn't that just unbalance the league again? I think if you use Quebec for relocation it would be for a team in the East already?

I could see Portland getting the yotes if they do need to be moved.

If you add 2 teams to the Pacific, they would have 9 teams and the Central 7 teams. You'd need to move one into the central and you'd have 32 teams divided evenly into 4 divisions.

 

[fighterfoo]

The perfect city to destroy young player's careers.

Seguin is so requesting a trade to Vegas.

 

[cheswick]

Expansion to Vegas and Seattle.
Phoenix moves to Portland.
Calgary, Edmonton and Colorado move divisions.
Florida relocates to Atlanta then to Phoenix.
Imbalanced conferences for a few seasons.
Then Las Vegas relocates to Quebec.
Columbus goes to Hartford.
NYI moves to Toronto2.0
Stars move to Houston.
Blues move to Kansas City.
Houston move to Las Vegas
Toronto2.0 wins the Cup.
Leafs fold and are obsorbed into the Sabres.
Imbalanced conferences so expansion talk.
Clevland granted an expansion franchise as is milwaukee.
Foloowing season Columbus gets an expansion team in the west and Detroit moves to the western conference

 

[fighterfoo]

Anyone think the NHL is a little skiddish about moving franchises? They moved Minnesota to Dallas, and now there's a team in Minnesota again, and then they moved Winnipeg to Phoenix... er... Arizona and there's a team back in Winnipeg again.

That being said, both those teams certainly did not move because lack of fan support, but certainly their track record of relocating franchises isn't fantastic.

(And relocation doesn't net the league $400MM.)

 

[fighterfoo]

Expansion to Vegas and Seattle.
Phoenix moves to Portland.
Calgary, Edmonton and Colorado move divisions.
Florida relocates to Atlanta then to Phoenix.
Imbalanced conferences for a few seasons.
Then Las Vegas relocates to Quebec.
Columbus goes to Hartford.
NYI moves to Toronto2.0
Stars move to Houston.
Blues move to Kansas City.
Houston move to Las Vegas
Toronto2.0 wins the Cup.
Leafs fold and are obsorbed into the Sabres.
Imbalanced conferences so expansion talk.
Clevland granted an expansion franchise as is milwaukee.
Foloowing season Columbus gets an expansion team in the west and Detroit moves to the western conference

Canadiens still don't care because 24 Cups.

 

[superdeluxe]

Anyone think the NHL is a little skiddish about moving franchises? They moved Minnesota to Dallas, and now there's a team in Minnesota again, and then they moved Winnipeg to Phoenix... er... Arizona and there's a team back in Winnipeg again.

That being said, both those teams certainly did not move because lack of fan support, but certainly their track record of relocating franchises isn't fantastic.

(And relocation doesn't net the league $400MM.)

How do relocation fees work in the NHL? COuldn't you make up the difference that way?

 

[ponder719]

Anyone think the NHL is a little skiddish about moving franchises? They moved Minnesota to Dallas, and now there's a team in Minnesota again, and then they moved Winnipeg to Phoenix... er... Arizona and there's a team back in Winnipeg again.

That being said, both those teams certainly did not move because lack of fan support, but certainly their track record of relocating franchises isn't fantastic.

(And relocation doesn't net the league $400MM.)

This is also the same league that's tried Atlanta and Colorado twice in the modern era, with varying success, and is making noise off and on about returning to Quebec, Kansas City, and when they're casting about, Hartford. (obviously, different amounts of noise, but still.) That's not even counting the pre-modern franchises in Ottawa, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, and Philadelphia, or the return of hockey to Brooklyn (where the Amerks played.)

The NHL has a bit of a thing for retracing their steps.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I'm just greedy and want one of Florida or Arizona to move to Toronto or GTA.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Anyone think the NHL is a little skiddish about moving franchises? They moved Minnesota to Dallas, and now there's a team in Minnesota again, and then they moved Winnipeg to Phoenix... er... Arizona and there's a team back in Winnipeg again.

That being said, both those teams certainly did not move because lack of fan support, but certainly their track record of relocating franchises isn't fantastic.

(And relocation doesn't net the league $400MM.)

Other leagues have done the same. The NBA put another team in Charlotte after the Hornets left. The NFL put another team in Cleveland.

I don't think any league wants to see franchises relocate. It's the same reason that no league wants to contract. Any business would rather just expand and expand.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

If you add 2 teams to the Pacific, they would have 9 teams and the Central 7 teams. You'd need to move one into the central and you'd have 32 teams divided evenly into 4 divisions.

not exactly....

Atlantic has 8;

Metropolitan has 8;

Central has 7;

Pacific has 7;

if the league goes and adds 2 West clubs, you add 1 to each division that has 7, you wouldn't need to move an existing team to the opposite division.

unless you elect to change the # of teams in each division or revert back to 3 division alignment.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Other leagues have done the same. The NBA put another team in Charlotte after the Hornets left. The NFL put another team in Cleveland.

I don't think any league wants to see franchises relocate. It's the same reason that no league wants to contract. Any business would rather just expand and expand.

Charlotte is different, because it was a different ownership group, KingsFan, and now they've reacquired the name back from New Orleans, after Benson bought the Pelicans, Shinn no longer runs either club, which is why an interim trustee was appointed by Stern until Benson was approved...

the Browns case is the same caveat that is detailed in Sonicsgate... the name and the colors stayed dormant, but all records of the original Browns are the Ravens, much like OKC owns everything that the Sonics heritage, except the name and colors, OKC can claim to rights to the Sonics history from 1967 to 2008.

 

[PCSPounder]

Something to keep in mind for Las Vegas and being "the first"...

The NHL doesn't just have competition from the NBA. There are also plans pretty far along to try to attract a MLS team to Vegas. They just postponed a decision on whether the city would fund a new soccer stadium from dec. 1 to dec. 17 and MLS is currently deciding whether to add a team in Las Vegas, Minneapolis, or Sacramento.

Last on the list for MLS. Lots of money in two Minneapolis bids. Fan base in Sacramento cannot be ignored. Stadium not likely to be approved.

I really shouldn't be stunned at the thought that some rich guy thinks he can make money in someone else's arena in any non-top-10 town, never mind Vegas. It's the thought that the NHL keeps finding guys like this, or Barroway... you'd think the league would learn by now.

 

[garnetpalmetto]

Charlotte is different, because it was a different ownership group, KingsFan, and now they've reacquired the name back from New Orleans, after Benson bought the Pelicans, Shinn no longer runs either club, which is why an interim trustee was appointed by Stern until Benson was approved...

the Browns case is the same caveat that is detailed in Sonicsgate... the name and the colors stayed dormant, but all records of the original Browns are the Ravens, much like OKC owns everything that the Sonics heritage, except the name and colors, OKC can claim to rights to the Sonics history from 1967 to 2008.

That's actually not the case at all. The Ravens are treated as a pseudo-expansion team that didn't enter the League until 1996. The Browns records, championships, and history stayed in Cleveland.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/bal-modell020996-story.html#page=1

In return, [Cleveland] will get to keep the Browns' name, colors and records for use by another team that the league promises to bring to the city, through expansion or relocation, by 1999.

 

[JMROWE]

This is what I see happening

Coyotes move to Seattle
Panthers move to Quebec City
Las Vegas gets an expansion team
Hamilton gets an expansion team
Las Vegas relocates to Houston or Kansas City within 5 years existence

Toronto2 will never happen even if bell & rogers split because there is no plans to build an NHL. size arena since Vaughn & Markham fell through do to funding & lack of interest in those areas .

If Bell & Rogers do split & one of them wants to put a 2nd NHL. team in southern Ontario they would most likely put the team in the Hamilton area (GHA.) because that is where they can get the best bang for there buck because ether building a new arena in the Hamilton area or renovating FirstOntario Center would be cheaper to do than building a new arena in the GTA. not to mention Hamilton (GHA.) has greater accessibility to rest of southern Ontario than the GTA. because of Hamilton centralized location .

 

[KGL]

If we add Vegas and Seattle to the Pacific, does that put pressure on the Coyotes moving to Ontario and the Central?

I could see expansion into Vegas and Seattle with relocation from Florida to Quebec City and Arizona to Kansas City, Portland or Houston or another central city. Makes the divisions logical and even.

 

[Morgoth Bauglir]

At least it's conditional.....

I think I'll go vomit now I'm starting to think the expansion committee is on crack

 

[cutchemist42]

Last on the list for MLS. Lots of money in two Minneapolis bids. Fan base in Sacramento cannot be ignored. Stadium not likely to be approved.

I really shouldn't be stunned at the thought that some rich guy thinks he can make money in someone else's arena in any non-top-10 town, never mind Vegas. It's the thought that the NHL keeps finding guys like this, or Barroway... you'd think the league would learn by now.

Part of me also wonders how so many million/billionaires never hear stories that fellow rich guys share about getting into pro sports like the NHL, in these types of markets.