Value of: Best offer for Tanev

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Tanev...not to Leafs

Kapanen for Tanev might have been fair trade before the end of the season. Kapanen two goals last night playing on the fourth line. Maybe the the Canucks have to add Horvat

Completely silly to even think that Tanev gets Nylander. Leafs have cap space and will use that leverage to acquire a defenceman or two, not by trading away young stars.

 

[Farm]

Nylander had 61 pts as a rookie. Horvat had 52 in his 3rd year.

Realistically this is all that needs to be said

 

[TBC]

You're talking like it's another case of Pavel Bure vs. Valeri Bure. It's not.

The values are far enough off between the Nylanders that its outrages to even consider them the same.

 

[xxreact9]

Kapanen for Tanev might have been fair trade before the end of the season. Kapanen two goals last night playing on the fourth line. Maybe the the Canucks have to add Horvat

Completely silly to even think that Tanev gets Nylander. Leafs have cap space and will use that leverage to acquire a defenceman or two, not by trading away young stars.

Having cap space is not leverage. You do not know what leverage means.

Toronto has the 100% opposite of leverage, much like Edmonton had, in that they are very desperate to acquire a defender, a very rare position that no one is willing to trade ever. You can literally list on 2 hands all the trades for top pairing D (nonrental) since the 1990s.

You're simply representative of the delusional population that believes any given top-6 winger can automatically acquire young top-4 defenders. That simply isn't how it works.

If the leafs want the player they quite honestly NEED to acquire, it's going to cost Nylander+++ or Kadri+++.

That's reality, regardless of what your personal mind perceives as fair value. The market value is not the same thing.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

xxreact9

Sorry Mr xxreact9, that you don't have knowledge of salary caps, term, or the way teams will manage their protection lists per Las Vegas draft..

Learn some of these issues, and you will have a better appreciation of what makes "fair" deals for various teams. If you limit yourself to just....."hockey playing value", you missing out of the realities of trades and team building.

You called me delusional? Maybe so, but I'll take that over you being uninformed, rude and ignorant.

 

[TOGuy14]

Having cap space is not leverage. You do not know what leverage means.

Toronto has the 100% opposite of leverage, much like Edmonton had, in that they are very desperate to acquire a defender, a very rare position that no one is willing to trade ever. You can literally list on 2 hands all the trades for top pairing D (nonrental) since the 1990s.

You're simply representative of the delusional population that believes any given top-6 winger can automatically acquire young top-4 defenders. That simply isn't how it works.

If the leafs want the player they quite honestly NEED to acquire, it's going to cost Nylander+++ or Kadri+++.

That's reality, regardless of what your personal mind perceives as fair value. The market value is not the same thing.

It's year one of our rebuild and we are in the playoffs playing a great series against the Presidents Trophy winners and down a couple D as well.

What makes us so desperate that we would do something stupid trade wise for a D?

 

[Tryamkin]

Nylander has been playing wing. also its hilariously awful to judge
a pair of young guys on FO%. Crosby is not good at faceoffs. does that make him worse than toews?

also comparing horvats 6 playoff games vs nylanders 2 is a terribly small sample size.

Nylander had 61 pts as a rookie. Horvat had 52 in his 3rd year.
Nylander is in another league offensively

keep cherry picking random useless stats and ignore the most important ones though (production)

Faceoffs and playoff stats lol

Horvat is a two way center.

 

[Farm]

Horvat is a two way center.

And while Horvat can continue being a "two way center" (47.52CF%) in his third year, Nylander will be having fun driving possession (52.52CF%) in his rookie year.

 

[firstemperor]

Horvat is a two way center.

Lol, Horvat isn't even solid defensively, let alone good whereas Nylander has grown exponentially with his 2-way player over the year to the point he's been good->very good the last half of the season.

He was labelled as such coming out of London but hasn't done anything to warrant that in the NHL.

I also question his skill/talent level moving forward to be consistently productive- whereas with Nylander, his talent level is evident. With him, he is just tapping into his upside IMO.

Now its pointless to go off-topic but it needs to be said that William Nylander is not even remotely on the table for Tanev. Just like other fans would find it laughable if you talked about someone like say, Draisaitl for Tanev, Ehlers for Tanev, Barkov for Tanev, Slavin/Hanifin for Tanev. It's an absolutely ridiculous proposal.

 

[bossram]

Horvat is a two way center.

Not really. He's getting better at the defensive aspects, but he's not there yet. Almost all of his value is related to offense and driving scoring opportunities.

He's still really bad at the PK too.

I'm a Canucks fan, and Horvat is really exciting, but realistically Nylander > Horvat

 

[Liferleafer]

Not really. He's getting better at the defensive aspects, but he's not there yet. Almost all of his value is related to offense and driving scoring opportunities.

He's still really bad at the PK too.

I'm a Canucks fan, and Horvat is really exciting, but realistically Nylander > Horvat

See, now this becomes interesting. Here's a question when it comes to value on Tanev as you seem to be quite honest. Would you trade Horvat for Tanev? Taking into consideration age/projection and contract?

Obviously assuming you were in the Leafs position. ..needing D...and using Horvat instead of Nylander. Do you deal the high upside rookie for Tanev?

 

[SelltheTeamFrancesco]

Delete

 

[Apotheosis]

Weird trading partners. Tanev isn't worth the big 3 and Kadri's production is too high for a D who doesn't produce. I would consider JVR+ this years first and a prospect though. Way I see it, JVR comes in a improves their top 6 (Benning special), a mid round pick to add in to their high pick helps build their prospect pool, and they get to choose a prospect to add as well. While already having Horvat, they could add one of the guys at the top of the draft as well as somebody in the middle (there's some good options here that people sleep on), Juolevi in the system and already also having Demko.

 

[LondonKendrick]

Having cap space is not leverage. You do not know what leverage means.

Toronto has the 100% opposite of leverage, much like Edmonton had, in that they are very desperate to acquire a defender, a very rare position that no one is willing to trade ever. You can literally list on 2 hands all the trades for top pairing D (nonrental) since the 1990s.

You're simply representative of the delusional population that believes any given top-6 winger can automatically acquire young top-4 defenders. That simply isn't how it works.

If the leafs want the player they quite honestly NEED to acquire, it's going to cost Nylander+++ or Kadri+++.

That's reality, regardless of what your personal mind perceives as fair value. The market value is not the same thing.

Leafs are tied in a series with the President Trophy winners, that's the opposite of a desperate team.

As for market pressure, well there is an expansion draft that will provide leverage for deals for servicable top four defenseman. At the end of the day that is what Tanev is, serviceable, he's not a dynamic talent.

 

[rt]

Says a Yotes fan. Sabres fans have been the ones offering Nylander for Tanev from what I've seen, so maybe try telling Sabres fans who you'd think would be the ones overvaluing their prized prospect

William Nylander is worth SIGNIFICANTLY more in trade than is Tanev. Between 50-100% more trade value.

 

[Puckstuff]

I want Tanev.

I'd do JVR + 1st + 2nd.
Brown + 1st.
Kappenen straight up. - I'm really re-consdering this now. PPG in AHL as a 20 year old. Already 2 goals in the playoffs.


I think Vancouver will be hard pressed to find a better trading partner. Youthful exuberance, you can plug into your top 6. (Brown, Leivo or Kappenen) Not sure if I would do Kappenen anymore.

 

[SelltheTeamFrancesco]

I want Tanev.

I'd do JVR + 1st + 2nd.
Brown + 1st.
Kappenen straight up. - I'm really re-consdering this now. PPG in AHL as a 20 year old. Already 2 goals in the playoffs.


I think Vancouver will be hard pressed to find a better trading partner. Youthful exuberance, you can plug into your top 6. (Brown, Leivo or Kappenen) Not sure if I would do Kappenen anymore.

Okay kapanen does not have that much value. Hansen was traded for goldy who has around the same numbers and probably al little less value than kapanen. Tanev has more value than hansen by a lot.When was the last time a established top 4 dman on a good contract was traded for a A level prospect ( not blue chip). I think it could be part of a package but not by himself.

 

[BlueBaron]

Bit of a blind spot to the fact this an expansion year. A top 4 D will not be easier to get until the next round of expansion. You have the teams that can only protect 3 to work with and you have Vegas who needs lots of things we can provide. Let's not forget Free agency since we have 18 mil coming off the books.

Let's not pretend we only have one option so we have to meet your price, we heard a lot of that crap when Luongo was on the market. Brown and a 1rst is probably the best offer you will get and most of us would probably rather have a cheaper less injury prone option.

 

[LondonKendrick]

Okay kapanen does not have that much value. Hansen was traded for goldy who has around the same numbers and probably al little less value than kapanen. Tanev has more value than hansen by a lot.When was the last time a established top 4 dman on a good contract was traded for a A level prospect ( not blue chip). I think it could be part of a package but not by himself.

How is Kapanen not blue chip? He was ranked top ten going into his draft and he slipped, Leafs took their time developing and he developed well hence owning the AHL and now success on a 4th line in the NHL.

Also we're just glossing over Brown's 20 rookie year? I suppose a more establish name has more market value but I'd rather keep young, cost control talent that still have upside.

So much of these values are uncritical, just looking at names and ignoring context and numbers, why on Earth would the Canucks want older players compared to a Brown or Kapanen?

Tanev is not worth 2 first round picks let alone a great rookie + top emerging AL talent

 

[SelltheTeamFrancesco]

How is Kapanen not blue chip? He was ranked top ten going into his draft and he slipped, Leafs took their time developing and he developed well hence owning the AHL and now success on a 4th line in the NHL.

Also we're just glossing over Brown's 20 rookie year? I suppose a more establish name has more market value but I'd rather keep young, cost control talent that still have upside.

So much of these values are uncritical, just looking at names and ignoring context and numbers, why on Earth would the Canucks want older players compared to a Brown or Kapanen?

Tanev is not worth 2 first round picks let alone a great rookie + top emerging AL talent

Yo bro I never mentioned brown all I said was kapanen by himself would not be enough add a first and that's fair value. Yes kapanen to me is not blue chip prospect. Also I went back and looked at mock drafts the highest some had Kapanen going was 9 the lowest 34 so I would not call that a top 10 talent. http://www.mynhldraft.com/2014-nhl-draft-prospect-rankings/

 

[nuckfan insk]

How did I know this would turn into a Toronto debate.....
The offers from buffalo are the most enticing

 

[Puckstuff]

I think Kappenen could have Nylander esque season next year. We are probably better keeping him.

I'd be more interested in Moving Connor Brown. And I really, really like Brown a lot. 20 goal rookie. I'd add a 1st as well if we had too.

 

[nuckfan insk]

I think Kappenen could have Nylander esque season next year. We are probably better keeping him.

I'd be more interested in Moving Connor Brown. And I really, really like Brown a lot. 20 goal rookie. I'd add a 1st as well if we had too.

You know what I get that, but I'd rather have buffalos pick and select Makar

 

[34]

Nylander had 61 pts as a rookie. Horvat had 52 in his 3rd year.

Ain't that the truth. I don't want to knock Horvat as he is a quality player, but he is no where close Willy Nylander. Willy is elite.

 

[MissionCanucksFan]

How did I know this would turn into a Toronto debate.....
The offers from buffalo are the most enticing

I dunno....

the poster that offered JVR+1st+2nd

seems to be the best considering you can flip JVR at next years deadline most likely fetching a 1st or a very decent prospect