Value of: Barzal's contract

[boredmale]

Matthews only played 62 games this year?

Eichel was also injured, both Matty and Eichel, when healthy, and top 3 players in this league the next 10 plus years. Hell Matty was like 10 pts over the PPG when he went down early in the season.

Both are 100pt players when fully healthy.

While I think the Matthews didn't get 70 points argument is ridiculous and I also think an asterisk should be put by Eichel for the situation he is in. The idea that both are 100 point scorers is stretching things the opposite way

 

[DanM]

While I think the Matthews didn't get 70 points argument is ridiculous and I also think an asterisk should be put by Eichel for the situation he is in. The idea that both are 100 point scorers is stretching things the opposite way

Agreed

Both Matty and Eichel would be at least 90 point players over a healthy 82 games I think. People don't understand the game these guys have, as I am sure they feel Barzal will be underrated also.

If JT leaves the Island, and teams zero in on Barzal harder, I would be surprised to see him duplicate his rookie year, and play the game both ways.

However, If he does I will be super pumped! I like seeing the game in a good place, and this is only my opinion, It could very well be wrong. Brazal is a player I do love watching

 

[hockeyguy1967]

Matthews only played 62 games this year? He came off three injuries, and still had 63p in 62 games. He had 34 goals in 62 gams lol both Jack and Matty have been better at a younger age, and don't even get me started in Mcdavid.

Eichel was also injured, both Matty and Eichel, when healthy, and top 3 players in this league the next 10 plus years. Hell Matty was like 10 pts over the PPG when he went down early in the season.

Both are 100pt players when fully healthy.

We gonna start comparing Barzal to Orr and Howe next, after this rookie season?

100 point players lol. Matthews is barely a PPG. He does not have enough offensive skill to ever be 100 point player. Bottom line is right now he is a 60 point player until he proves otherwise. Also he had four different injuries this year, can you say glass?

 

[DanM]

100 point players lol. Matthews is barely a PPG. He does not have enough offensive skill to ever be 100 point player. Bottom line is right now he is a 60 point player until he proves otherwise. Also he had four different injuries this year, can you say glass?

That is an amazing story

 

[hockeyguy1967]

That is an amazing story

Stats and reality is on my side. Make believe and what if's are on yours.

 

[rent free]

100 point players lol. Matthews is barely a PPG. He does not have enough offensive skill to ever be 100 point player. Bottom line is right now he is a 60 point player until he proves otherwise. Also he had four different injuries this year, can you say glass?

he's had 3 injuries and has played more possible games than mcdavid has. he would've gotten 70 + points if he had played all 82 games this season

 

[One Winged Angel]

100 point players lol. Matthews is barely a PPG. He does not have enough offensive skill to ever be 100 point player. Bottom line is right now he is a 60 point player until he proves otherwise. Also he had four different injuries this year, can you say glass?

He doesn't have the skill to be a 100 point player?

You say this based on what, having never watched the guy play? Because clearly he's one of the most talented players in the game and you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to Matthews.

 

[DanM]

Stats and reality is on my side. Make believe and what if's are on yours.

I learned something today

Thanks for teaching me

 

[hockeyguy1967]

he's had 3 injuries and has played more possible games than mcdavid has. he would've gotten 70 + points if he had played all 82 games this season

Maybe, but he didn't. Just like McDavid could have won the art Ross in his rookie season if he did not break his clavicle. He also had four injuries including a concussion.

 

[hockeyguy1967]

I learned something today

Thanks for teaching me

Anytime my friend.

 

[hockeyguy1967]

He doesn't have the skill to be a 100 point player?

You say this based on what, having never watched the guy play? Because clearly he's one of the most talented players in the game and you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to Matthews.

Based on reality and what I have watched. He is a good scorer but an average playmaker. Sorry. Maybe you should hope for points in the 70's before looking at 100?

 

[Finn16]

100 point players lol. Matthews is barely a PPG. He does not have enough offensive skill to ever be 100 point player. Bottom line is right now he is a 60 point player until he proves otherwise. Also he had four different injuries this year, can you say glass?

Matthews is a PPG player at this point, nobody considers him a 60 point player and he definitely could hit 100 points, Matthews has very low ice time and PP time compared to other stars due to babcock wanting to run 3 scoring lines.

Matthews had 3 injuries this year and was still able to be above PPG, that basically hurts your argument if anything and Mcdavid has missed larger % of games due to injury in his career than Matthews has so who is made of glass?

 

[rent free]

Maybe, but he didn't. Just like McDavid could have won the art Ross in his rookie season if he did not break his clavicle. He also had four injuries including a concussion.

he had 2 injuries and 1 concussion

 

[boredmale]

Agreed

Both Matty and Eichel would be at least 90 point players over a healthy 82 games I think. People don't understand the game these guys have, as I am sure they feel Barzal will be underrated also.

If JT leaves the Island, and teams zero in on Barzal harder, I would be surprised to see him duplicate his rookie year, and play the game both ways.

However, If he does I will be super pumped! I like seeing the game in a good place, and this is only my opinion, It could very well be wrong. Brazal is a player I do love watching

My 2 cents is a healthy Matthews and Eichel will be perennial top 10 scorers. If either gets 100 points it will be in the same sense that Patrick Kane once got 100 points(ie if the moon and stars align)

 

[One Winged Angel]

Based on reality and what I have watched. He is a good scorer but an average playmaker. Sorry. Maybe you should hope for points in the 70's before looking at 100?

I'm not hoping for 100. I'm a Ranger fan, so I don't really have a dog in this fight.

You made a ludicrous statement with no factual knowledge of his abilities or what capacity he can actually play to. You clearly haven't watched him a day in your life if you don't think he has the potential to put up those types of numbers. He was a point per game player this year, which obviously discredits your "reality and what you have watched" and at best, your comments are nothing but conjecture, just as mine are.

Any player that puts up a point per game has the potential to be a 100 point guy. With the right players and the right settings, it could be the case. Giroux put up 73, 67 and 58 points, before putting up 102 this year. Matthews is on that level of talent and has had 2 seasons of 60+ points, this year scoring at a point per game clip while battling injuries. Also, 4 different injuries this year means he's made of glass? It's one season. I can break my finger, sprain my knee, get a concussion and get a laceration and I'm "made of glass". That's a reach.

Stop parading around your opinion as fact. It's not.

 

[DanM]

I'm not hoping for 100. I'm a Ranger fan, so I don't really have a dog in this fight.

You made a ludicrous statement with no factual knowledge of his abilities or what capacity he can actually play to. You clearly haven't watched him a day in your life if you don't think he has the potential to put up those types of numbers. He was a point per game player this year, which obviously discredits your "reality and what you have watched" and at best, your comments are nothing but conjecture, just as mine are.

Any player that puts up a point per game has the potential to be a 100 point guy. With the right players and the right settings, it could be the case. Giroux put up 73, 67 and 58 points, before putting up 102 this year. Matthews is on that level of talent and has had 2 seasons of 60+ points, this year scoring at a point per game clip while battling injuries. Also, 4 different injuries this year means he's made of glass? It's one season. I can break my finger, sprain my knee, get a concussion and get a laceration and I'm "made of glass". That's a reach.

Stop parading around your opinion as fact. It's not.

You my friend have won the HF battle.

All great points across the board.

 

[DanM]

My 2 cents is a healthy Matthews and Eichel will be perennial top 10 scorers. If either gets 100 points it will be in the same sense that Patrick Kane once got 100 points(ie if the moon and stars align)

Agreed

Honestly, I am happy with 90 points, high end 2 way game, and a perennial playoff performer.

I do think both have the talent to crack 100 a few times, but I do think both would need to refine their games more to do it, but are capable. It's damn hard to crack 100 plus points consistently in this era, but I really think these guys are special.

Plus in the end, I am a Leafs fan lol I am just happy to have competent management again lol

 

[boredmale]

Agreed

Honestly, I am happy with 90 points, high end 2 way game, and a perennial playoff performer.

I do think both have the talent to crack 100 a few times, but I do think both would need to refine their games more to do it, but are capable. It's damn hard to crack 100 plus points consistently in this era, but I really think these guys are special.

Plus in the end, I am a Leafs fan lol I am just happy to have competent management again lol

Betting man in me says better chance Eichel breaks 100 then Matthews for the simple fact Eichel seems to be a better passer and you just need to get him 1-2 linemates to score and all of a sudden he becomes a huge threat in multiple ways. In the case of Matthews maybe it's Marner or Nylander but if not it will be much harder to find linemates for him who can feed him the puck

Eichel basically scores at a 40% goal 60% assist rate, while Matthews is scoring at a 55% goals 45% assist rate

 

[DanM]

I'm not hoping for 100. I'm a Ranger fan, so I don't really have a dog in this fight.

You made a ludicrous statement with no factual knowledge of his abilities or what capacity he can actually play to. You clearly haven't watched him a day in your life if you don't think he has the potential to put up those types of numbers. He was a point per game player this year, which obviously discredits your "reality and what you have watched" and at best, your comments are nothing but conjecture, just as mine are.

Any player that puts up a point per game has the potential to be a 100 point guy. With the right players and the right settings, it could be the case. Giroux put up 73, 67 and 58 points, before putting up 102 this year. Matthews is on that level of talent and has had 2 seasons of 60+ points, this year scoring at a point per game clip while battling injuries. Also, 4 different injuries this year means he's made of glass? It's one season. I can break my finger, sprain my knee, get a concussion and get a laceration and I'm "made of glass". That's a reach.

Stop parading around your opinion as fact. It's not.

I also hate when people bring up the playmaking thing, Matthews has grown in that regard, and increased his assists from last year even. People on here talk like he is not a playmaker, but he is fine and I watch him every game, he sees the ice well.

Mcdavid (and I am not comparing them) but he didn't score much coming in, he had 40 this year. When people talk about Matthews and his playmaking, they talk like he doesn't have the mental capacity to improve.... I just wish we could all enjoy they player we have.

 

[DanM]

Betting man in me says better chance Eichel breaks 100 then Matthews for the simple fact Eichel seems to be a better passer and you just need to get him 1-2 linemates to score and all of a sudden he becomes a huge threat in multiple ways. In the case of Matthews maybe it's Marner or Nylander but if not it will be much harder to find linemates for him who can feed him the puck

Eichel basically scores at a 40% goal 60% assist rate, while Matthews is scoring at a 55% goals 45% assist rate

You could be right in this, and I am high on both players. I also like Eichels athleticism, such a developed athlete at such a young age.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Betting man in me says better chance Eichel breaks 100 then Matthews for the simple fact Eichel seems to be a better passer and you just need to get him 1-2 linemates to score and all of a sudden he becomes a huge threat in multiple ways. In the case of Matthews maybe it's Marner or Nylander but if not it will be much harder to find linemates for him who can feed him the puck

Eichel basically scores at a 40% goal 60% assist rate, while Matthews is scoring at a 55% goals 45% assist rate

That's a fair statement, usually the playmakers are the ones who have better chances of scoring more goals simply by default, considering there are two players that can register an assist as opposed to only one goal scorer, thus giving you more chances to score points.

It's a fairly simplistic, but logical explanation and I'd agree that Eichel is the better playmaker of the two. However, with that said, I think Matthews gets a bad rap because everyone sees 40 goals and 20 something assists for his first season and thinks that he's Ovechkin who does nothing but shoot.

I think too many people don't watch Matthews enough. I've had center ice every year since it's inception and access to out of market games before that and it's hard to consistently watch another team on a regular basis, especially with that other team being in your time zone and playing the overwhelming majority of their games at the same time. I have had a hard enough time following Vegas, Toronto and the few other teams that I try to follow on a regular basis, being that I have total ADHD when it comes to watching hockey on center ice. So, when some random person tells me that they specifically watch another team that's not in their market on a regular basis, I have a hard enough time believing them as is, nevermind when they're spewing nonsense like the other poster was.

 

[One Winged Angel]

I also hate when people bring up the playmaking thing, Matthews has grown in that regard, and increased his assists from last year even. People on here talk like he is not a playmaker, but he is fine and I watch him every game, he sees the ice well.

Mcdavid (and I am not comparing them) but he didn't score much coming in, he had 40 this year. When people talk about Matthews and his playmaking, they talk like he doesn't have the mental capacity to improve.... I just wish we could all enjoy they player we have.

Yeah, that's what I was alluding to in the post you quoted.

Clearly his offensive production has picked up, scoring at a point per game clip. How anyone can think that a player as talented as Matthews is has peaked in his 2nd season with a steady increase in points per game on a young team that's only going to grow together is beyond me.

There are so many elements that he didn't even begin to break down when throwing around his "reality and what he's watched".

If Matthews is made of glass, that guy's argument was made of swiss cheese.

 

[DanM]

That's a fair statement, usually the playmakers are the ones who have better chances of scoring more goals simply by default, considering there are two players that can register an assist as opposed to only one goal scorer, thus giving you more chances to score points.

It's a fairly simplistic, but logical explanation and I'd agree that Eichel is the better playmaker of the two. However, with that said, I think Matthews gets a bad rap because everyone sees 40 goals and 20 something assists for his first season and thinks that he's Ovechkin who does nothing but shoot.

I think too many people don't watch Matthews enough. I've had center ice every year since it's inception and access to out of market games before that and it's hard to consistently watch another team on a regular basis, especially with that other team being in your time zone and playing the overwhelming majority of their games at the same time. I have had a hard enough time following Vegas, Toronto and the few other teams that I try to follow on a regular basis, being that I have total ADHD when it comes to watching hockey on center ice. So, when some random person tells me that they specifically watch another team that's not in their market on a regular basis, I have a hard enough time believing them as is, nevermind when they're spewing nonsense like the other poster was.

Well put, and I think both of you bring up really good points, really good hockey talk.

I also believe usage plays a large role. I don't have the numbers right in front of me, so please forgive.

Mike Babcock is very restrictive on his ice time. Matty plays a lot less mins on average 5x5 and PP when it comes to star players. This will screw numbers, and amount to less opportunities for assists and points in general.

You will see many stars play prime PP mins and this tacks on a lot of primary and secondary assists. I believe most people on here just look at point totals and make a decision on what a player can do.

 

[DanM]

Yeah, that's what I was alluding to in the post you quoted.

Clearly his offensive production has picked up, scoring at a point per game clip. How anyone can think that a player as talented as Matthews is has peaked in his 2nd season with a steady increase in points per game on a young team that's only going to grow together is beyond me.

There are so many elements that he didn't even begin to break down when throwing around his "reality and what he's watched".

If Matthews is made of glass, that guy's argument was made of swiss cheese.

You my friend are a person I would gladly talk hockey with anytime.

You know your stuff

 

[One Winged Angel]

Well put, and I think both of you bring up really good points, really good hockey talk.

I also believe usage plays a large role. I don't have the numbers right in front of me, so please forgive.

Mike Babcock is very restrictive on his ice time. Matty plays a lot less mins on average 5x5 and PP when it comes to star players. This will screw numbers, and amount to less opportunities for assists and points in general.

You will see many stars play prime PP mins and this tacks on a lot of primary and secondary assists. I believe most people on here just look at point totals and make a decision on what a player can do.

Absolutely, not many people on here actually watch the players they're discussing. I know you joined less than a year ago, but this is something I've known for years and years now about the vast majority of people on this site. Not saying there aren't good knowledgeable posters out there who watch out of market, but there's a lot of them who will parade around their opinions about said players without actually having a clue, but will post advanced stats, WARRIOR/HERO and other charts, etc. but couldn't tell you the first thing about the player's mannerisms or tendencies. It's the little things you'll notice about a player.

I'll be honest, I couldn't tell you Matthews usage stats either. I'm not going to pretend to know how he's used in certain situations, zone starts, etc. However, I can tell you that he's an underrated passer and his on ice vision is far better than SOME people will give credit for.