Value of: Barzal's contract

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Matthews went over PPG in his D+2 season. Draisaitl has never done that despite being drafted two years earlier and playing with McDavid a bunch.

Eichel hasn't hit PPG and got $10 million. $7.5-8.5 is a pipe dream. And you're calling others delusional...

you can split hairs all you want by saying Matthews went PPG in his D+2 and Draisaitl/Eichel have never done it.


Eichel had 64 in 67 and 57 in 61. Draisaitl had 77 in 82. Matthews had 63 in 62.


They're all very comparable numbers. The difference is Draisaitl did his over a full 82 game season, and Eichel did his for B2B years.


Lets see what Matthews does next season before anointing him a player worthy of an 11M dollar deal and bigger contract then both of those guys. Maybe 7.5-8.5 like I originally suggested is a bit low, but he's not an 11M player yet by a long shot. Somewhere between 8.5M and 10.0M is what he is right now.

 

[DanM]

Absolutely, not many people on here actually watch the players they're discussing. I know you joined less than a year ago, but this is something I've known for years and years now about the vast majority of people on this site. Not saying there aren't good knowledgeable posters out there who watch out of market, but there's a lot of them who will parade around their opinions about said players without actually having a clue, but will post advanced stats, WARRIOR/HERO and other charts, etc. but couldn't tell you the first thing about the player's mannerisms or tendencies. It's the little things you'll notice about a player.

I'll be honest, I couldn't tell you Matthews usage stats either. I'm not going to pretend to know how he's used in certain situations, zone starts, etc. However, I can tell you that he's an underrated passer and his on ice vision is far better than SOME people will give credit for.

I couldn't agree more. So many variables when it comes down to a single players game. This could be usage, line tendencies, coaching, systems, player habits and tendencies etc. I find with many (not all) that emotions also get in the way of reality.

In the end all we can do is use the info we collect, and use it to gauge a player, team, or coaching strategy. The players themselves could turn into anything, we are only using the talent we see and hope they reach the level we think they can.

That's why I love talking sports in depth, look over all the different scenarios lol I am a fan of the game, and I always hate to argue when you get so much more out of an intelligent conversation.

 

[CodeE]

I have a feeling Barzal is closer to a 70 point player than a 90 point player. Over 7.5 would be a mistake

Eichel was also injured, both Matty and Eichel, when healthy, and top 3 players in this league the next 10 plus years. Hell Matty was like 10 pts over the PPG when he went down early in the season.

Both are 100pt players when fully healthy.

Welcome to HFboards!

Where a career high 85-point player is classified as "a 70 point player" and a career high 69-point player is classified as "a 100 point player".

 

[HOPE]

he's gonna want to make his dad proud and ask a trade to Montreal and sign for League minimum!

 

[The Moose is Loose]

1. Doesn't matter.
2. Barzal might not be next year, and if he hits 100 points, being sheltered in his rookie year won't matter.
3. They were both on bad teams.
4. I'm assuming you mean points, not millions of dollars, so ok, but what if he gets 96?

Young centers putting up monster numbers aren't comparable?

I stopped reading at where age didn’t matter.

I don’t know what to tell you, if you think Barzal and McDavid are the same, then maybe you should try following a different sport

 

[DanM]

Welcome to HFboards!

Where a career high 85-point player is classified as "a 70 point player" and a career high 69-point player is classified as "a 100 point player".

Thank you so much for the nice welcome

 

[hockeyguy1967]

Welcome to HFboards!

Where a career high 85-point player is classified as "a 70 point player" and a career high 69-point player is classified as "a 100 point player".

Yep

 

[DKH]

Barzal needs a 100 point season next year and go for $10 M per

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I stopped reading at where age didn’t matter.

I don’t know what to tell you, if you think Barzal and McDavid are the same, then maybe you should try following a different sport

And I don't know what to tell you, if that's what you got from my post.

And no, age doesn't matter a whole heck of a lot when one guy did his thing at 19 and the other at 20.

 

[Legion34]

And I don't know what to tell you, if that's what you got from my post.

And no, age doesn't matter a whole heck of a lot when one guy did his thing at 19 and the other at 20.

It does when scoring League wide went up dramatically in that year.

Power plays and smaller equipment played a role here

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

It does when scoring League wide went up dramatically in that year.

Power plays and smaller equipment played a role here

And we'll see what effect it has on everything next year, when this discussion will really ramp up.

 

[Legion34]

And we'll see what effect it has on everything next year, when this discussion will really ramp up.

That’s fair I mean he could explode next year even more.

But this years raw totals compared to last isn’t really fair. I mean how many players had career years this year? Like even guys in their 30s.......many of them

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

That’s fair I mean he could explode next year even more.

But this years raw totals compared to last isn’t really fair. I mean how many players had career years this year? Like even guys in their 30s.......many of them

True, you can adjust it down a bit for the scoring increase, but then you can also adjust it back up for the cap increase. It would, IMO, probably settle back close to the same spot.

I'm just saying, if I'm Barzal and I toss up an 85 point, dominant Calder campaign; and then (hypothetically) I follow it up with an un-sheltered ~100 point season; and then I start looking around at whose company I might be in with those accomplishments, how many names would be out there to compare to?

 

[LordNeverLose]

8 x 8.5 would be my guess. Something slightly less than Matthews and Eichel.

 

[hector morrison]

you can split hairs all you want by saying Matthews went PPG in his D+2 and Draisaitl/Eichel have never done it.


Eichel had 64 in 67 and 57 in 61. Draisaitl had 77 in 82. Matthews had 63 in 62.


They're all very comparable numbers. The difference is Draisaitl did his over a full 82 game season, and Eichel did his for B2B years.


Lets see what Matthews does next season before anointing him a player worthy of an 11M dollar deal and bigger contract then both of those guys. Maybe 7.5-8.5 like I originally suggested is a bit low, but he's not an 11M player yet by a long shot. Somewhere between 8.5M and 10.0M is what he is right now.

Some value goals more than assists, maybe you don't...however, just because you are not a fan of Matthews doesn't mean you should under value him. Fairly sure he leads the league in 'even strength' 5x5 scoring since he entered the league ! Gotta be worth something,No?

 

[Legion34]

True, you can adjust it down a bit for the scoring increase, but then you can also adjust it back up for the cap increase. It would, IMO, probably settle back close to the same spot.

I'm just saying, if I'm Barzal and I toss up an 85 point, dominant Calder campaign; and then (hypothetically) I follow it up with an un-sheltered ~100 point season; and then I start looking around at whose company I might be in with those accomplishments, how many names would be out there to compare to?

If he does. Sure. The hardware mcdavid has counts for something too.
He would be comparable to kucherov for sure plus Tampa tax.

If it’s a 100 pts with no hardware....11 ish?
If he gets a Ross then sure 12!

 

[Legion34]

Some value goals more than assists, maybe you don't...however, just because you are not a fan of Matthews doesn't mean you should under value him. Fairly sure he leads the league in 'even strength' 5x5 scoring since he entered the league ! Gotta be worth something,No?

19 year old 2nd in league. Top 5 for combined after missing 20 games. He will be a 10 million deal

 

[hector morrison]

19 year old 2nd in league. Top 5 for combined after missing 20 games. He will be a 10 million deal

Don't feel many Leaf fans would be unhappy at 10 . Might even be a bargain in a few years.

 

[CupHolders]

It does when scoring League wide went up dramatically in that year.

Power plays and smaller equipment played a role here

Nope, Doug Weight’s defenseless strategy is responsible for league wide scoring rise.

 

[Critical13]

you can split hairs all you want by saying Matthews went PPG in his D+2 and Draisaitl/Eichel have never done it.


Eichel had 64 in 67 and 57 in 61. Draisaitl had 77 in 82. Matthews had 63 in 62.


They're all very comparable numbers. The difference is Draisaitl did his over a full 82 game season, and Eichel did his for B2B years.


Lets see what Matthews does next season before anointing him a player worthy of an 11M dollar deal and bigger contract then both of those guys. Maybe 7.5-8.5 like I originally suggested is a bit low, but he's not an 11M player yet by a long shot. Somewhere between 8.5M and 10.0M is what he is right now.

You've got a serious bone to pick with Matthews, don't you? I've seen you pop up in almost every Matthews thread lately.

 

[CREW99AW]

He is right.

Eichel has a career high of 69 pts, yet you label him a 100 pt player.

Barzal has a career high of 85 pts, yet according to you he is more of 70 pt player.

Not sure if you are trolling , but amusing posts

 

[hector morrison]

Is that how players are evaluated at contract time,points? It sometimes seems that way, but I'm sure more aspects of the game are considered.
In Matthews case, if I'm his agent then there is going to be a lot more brought up at the table if the leafs try to undercut because of point production comparisons to his peers.
One glaring aspect is the left winger that he has had on his line since he entered the league, an obvious liability. Pick any other first line winger in the league and Matthews is top five in points and likely a Rocket trophy winner. Babs don't care, so this is what we get.

 

[Instant]

It seriously amazes me how every thread about Barzal is in some weird, crazy way turning to Matthews' thread. Dear Leafs fans, there's an option "Post New Thread" if you want to talk about your players, you don't have to bring them EVERYWHERE.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

You've got a serious bone to pick with Matthews, don't you? I've seen you pop up in almost every Matthews thread lately.

Well that's just not true at all


I make a point to avoid any thread with Matthews name in it because of the ridiculousness that is said about him.


This wasn't supposed to be a Matthews thread either. Silly me for taking the bait and entering a thread titled "Matthew Barzals next contract"


I guess I should have known that somehow it would be related to Matthews.

 

[Critical13]

Well that's just not true at all


I make a point to avoid any thread with Matthews name in it because of the ridiculousness that is said about him.


This wasn't supposed to be a Matthews thread either. Silly me for taking the bait and entering a thread titled "Matthew Barzals next contract"


I guess I should have known that somehow it would be related to Matthews.

You don't think Matthew's contract will be a viable comparable for Barzal's contract? Or are you just looking for an opportunity to whine about Matthews threads, even though you seem to really, really enjoy posting in them?