Barzal rookie season vs. Matthews rookie season

[tony d]

Barzal.

 

[Drytoast]

I'd say Barzal looks pretty damn good.

Too bad he plays in a small market.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Matthews. 40 goals, actually was the 1c, better two way, one year younger.

 

[Cleatus]

Matthews gets the edge for me because I prefer his goal scoring. Overall scoring was also lower last season (Barzal wouldn’t be PPG), and Matthews didn’t get the luxury of playing in the shadow of someone like Tavares. He was every defense’s main focus on the Leafs from day 1.

 

[M C D A V I D]

You need to stop making excuses. Leafs were The LAST place team in the nhl the year Matthews was drafted. He played on a line with 2 other rookies and led them to the playoffs, on a team with 7 other rookies (Hyman, brown, Marner, carrick, Zaitsev, nylander, Soshnkkov) he was the one other teams focused on. If all you’re looking at are points than you truly don’t understand how monumental what Matthews actually did.

This site is too quick to discredit what Matthews and the leafs did.

No one gave the leafs a chance to be relevant that year and Matthews made sure they were.

That's why they're still winning games with him injured eh

 

[Cotton]

Matthews, 40 goals and 69 points playing two-way hockey while centering two other rookies.

He was also one of the main reasons we made the playoffs.

 

[mikeyp24]

This is silly. An entire play can be created by the player getting a secondary assist. A goal can also be an easy tap in.

In football you don't get an assist if.you block someone. In basketball you only get an assist IF you are the most recent person to pass it AND it has to lead.to a score within a few seconds. If you pass it and the guy dribbles for 5 seconds the drives and lays it in you didn't help the play. The whole reason for an assist is supposed to be you directly contributed to the team scoring. You can get an assist if your teammate shoots it and hits you in the head and it bounces to your teammate then they gather it skating for 15 seconds before shooting it and bouncing off a goalie pad and another teammate shoots it off an opponents skate and it goes in. That gets you a well earned point when basically no one on your team did anything to be offensive there.

 

[Narow]

He is, but to say the only reason we're making the playoffs is because of him is just wrong.

Leafs are a real good team, really deep offense, average defense, and a top ten goalie is why we're a top ten team in the league, not solely because of Andersen.

Yeah i agree far from the only reason obviously but i understood it as if that post claimed that if you switch goalies they would make they would make the playoff... perhaps as islanders is very deep offensively who knows anyways

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Just a note on the linemates narrative I am reading here.

Barzal has decent linemates, but they are far from elite.

Barzal has centered Eberle who has not scored 30 goals in 7 seasons. And a declining Ladd or an unproven Beauvillier all season. It is truly remarkable to think he has 70 points in 70 games this season without top wingers.

He leads the Isles in points, which is no small feat with Tavares on the team.
He is currently tied for 11th in the NHL in ESP with 50.
His possession metrics have been consistently top 2 all season on the Isles.

Most people who have watched the Isles this year will know, he has faced as tough match ups as JT has this season. Weight does not shelter him nor his line. Since they are often the best line defensively.

 

[Sureves]

I voted Matthews over Laine in the other thread so I'm far from a Matthews hater, but this isn't close.

Barzal by a mile.

 

[GlitchMarner]

So 40 goals for an 18 year old kid on a terrible team with below-average linemates is a much more impressive situation then barzel playing with decent linemates and racking up assists.

How was TOR terrible? Five players scored 60+ points.

 

[Placid Perspicuity]

With all these polls comparing players having great seasons to Leaf players, it must be fair to assume that many Leaf players are the measuring stick by which good players are evaluated? (Especially since many of these polls are started by non-Leaf fans.)

So let's not get too upset by the differing opinions on here. Every time I see a player doing phenomenally well being put into a poll against a Leaf, I take that as a compliment.

 

[mikeyp24]

How was TOR terrible? Five players scored 60+ points.

More important things then points for individual players. Look at say the blue jackets. 100^pts last year as a team 4th in the league and had 1 60pt player. Every player contributes and points spread evenly and then play22 shut down defense. When teams have guys with that many points they also give up that many normally because most 60pt guys aren't shut down players haha. They are much improved this year but look at who the top linemen were.... He was stuck with pre the Reilly becoming a legit top 4... now he has Hainsy at least .

 

[sebsisles]

With all these polls comparing players having great seasons to Leaf players, it must be fair to assume that many Leaf players are the measuring stick by which good players are evaluated? (Especially since many of these polls are started by non-Leaf fans.)

So let's not get too upset by the differing opinions on here. Every time I see a player doing phenomenally well being put into a poll against a Leaf, I take that as a compliment.

I think this is more of a poll because we are comparing the top rookie scorer from last year to the top rookie scorer this year. Also, i think a lot of polls with leaf players are started because their players always end up in other players threads and the debate begins.

 

[Yamazaki]

That's why they're still winning games with him injured eh

We’re talking about his rookie year NOT this year.

 

[HarrisonFord]

Matthews led the entire NHL last year in ESG scored, while dragging Hyman around on his wing all year and Brown for half the year. Finished 2nd in goals scored in the NHL overall. Played against top shutdown units.

Barzal has had the benefit of playing on the second line at ES with an established 25g scorer on his wing while also having the highest PP TOI on his team on the top PP unit with Tavares.

Matthews for me.

 

[M C D A V I D]

We’re talking about his rookie year NOT this year.

So you think he got worse and less important this year? Is he on the decline?

 

[SotasicA]

I think Matthews for the poll, but Barzal has been more exciting than Matthews this season.

 

[Yamazaki]

So you think he got worse and less important this year? Is he on the decline?

I don’t know what your agenda against Matthews is but this is about rookie seasons. I can argue with you about the other stuff but stay focused on the original question.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Barzal has more points, but also had better linemates. Matthews played with 2 other rookies, but scored 40 goals. Too close to call.

Barzal has had these linemates this season; Beauvillier, Ladd, Eberle....better linemates?
Matthews didn't play his (entire) rookie season with 2 rookies as linemates btw.

I just wanted to point that out. - i can't decide which is better.

 

[Placid Perspicuity]

I think this is more of a poll because we are comparing the top rookie scorer from last year to the top rookie scorer this year. Also, i think a lot of polls with leaf players are started because their players always end up in other players threads and the debate begins.

I'm sure that's part of it, but I don't remember any polls comparing Matthews' rookie season vs Panarin's last year. Barzal is having an outstanding season that stands out historically. You wouldn't compare that to your typical rookie season.

 

[rent free]

barzal. ppg season is better than 69 points

 

[M C D A V I D]

I don’t know what your agenda against Matthews is but this is about rookie seasons. I can argue with you about the other stuff but stay focused on the original question.

No agenda. I just think there are better arguments than Matthews led his team to the playoffs when the Isles would be in the playoffs if they even had league average goaltending.

I think the answer to this question is Matthews btw. I think people are forgetting Barzal is D+3 right now as opposed to Matthews who was D+1. And 40G is 40G

But I also think Barzal is on the same tier as Matthews.

 

[Menzinger]

Matthews, and it shouldn’t even be close.

Factor in age + the fact that Matthews was joining a 30th overall team + the Islanders having a 1C already in JT to take the prime matchups......

 

[authentic]

That's why they're still winning games with him injured eh

To be fair they did just lose 4 in a row without him.

Barzal is currently 18th in points, Matthews was 20th and tied for 2nd in the league in goals. Matthews was the clear best player on the team and Barzal plays behind Tavares. I understand why people take Barzal here though, because this is hfboards and Matthews is just sooo overrated.