Barrie is miscast

[Pokecheque]

No, I said elsewhere (I think the fancy stats thread) that the Avs are suffering from Drop-Pass-itis. WAY too many drop passes, which is the result of an inability to break through opposing defenses, largely because the team is too slow simply not forcing the opposition to spread out and make mistakes.

Once again, this has a lot to do with the SEVERE lack of team speed. One guy carries it up, sees them stacked up, drops, next guy sees it, drops, and so on and so forth. It's really annoying and slows down and already slow team. Drop passes are great when you want to throw off the opposition when you're already in the attacking zone but just moving it up the ice it's not effective at all.

 

[Sea Eagles]

Meh.


I dont have a problem with this part at all really. It's something that almost every team in the league does right now and the Avs are no different. It's not a Barrie thing so much as it is a general PP strategy that Barrie is being told to do.


And It's actually a decent strategy for getting the puck deep on the PP if done correctly, the problem is the Avs PP(In other words our good buddy Tim Army) doesn't know how to do it correctly.


In theory it does a great job at stopping the PKers on the blueline and makes it easier to win a dump/chase race for the puck or easier to maneuver into the offensive zone. But the Avs are doing something wrong with it and it's not working for them very well. I think it's about the timing of it and where Army has them dropping the puck. Needs to happen closer to the blue line.

Makes sense. One thing I have noticed watching other really offensively gifted teams is that the drop passes aren't nearly as big or deep as Barrie's. The are much more subtle.

But that belies another point. Tim Army. Is it time to move on from him? I've been a firm believer that Bednar (Head Coach), with Pratt (Special Teams) is more than enough. I'd also really like a full time goalie coach (even though I really feel Pickard / Varly are doing a very, very good job considering what is in front of them - most certainly not our weakness).

Keep Brett Heimlich.

Basically Army, Farrish and Allaire gone. Subtle changes that may open a few eyes in the locker room? Or too much?

I'm pretty hard on the team (and trying to be much more positive), but I really think our special teams are very inconsistent.

 

[Miri]

I wonder why we dont try the guy at the wing, if he is **** at defending? You never know, we may find out it actually suits him there. He certainly has offensive skills to play as forward and with Landy, MacKinnon and Rantanen playing on line together, its not like we have anyone more likely to score to play on Duchene´s wing anyway.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Which offensive skills? He's not that great offensively.

 

[Alex Jones]

Which offensive skills? He's not that great offensively.

He has nice stickhandling.

 

[hooverdam]

Hey guys! Pens fan here but my dad is a huge Avs fan so I always try and semi-keep up with the team so we have something to talk about, and here I am, doing research before Christmas dinner! Hope you don't mind.

I'm also a big Barrie fan because I like offensive defensemen, so this thread is really, really interesting to me. I've always held the opinion that you should let offensive defensemen do their thing and too much structure, while eliminating the "high-risk" part of the equation, can also eliminate the "high-reward" part, and it's virtually never gone well to make an OFD sacrifice his offense for the sake of defense. So hearing the systematic reasons for Barrie's struggles is really enlightening for me!

You guys seem to be split on what should be done with it, but if you want my opinion (and you probably don't!), if a coach wants to maximize the offensive potential on a team, it has to come from a defenseman like Barrie. We watched Letang struggle for years because Bylsma was coaching him to play like a pylon, insisting on playing him with a pylon, and just generally doing everything to make him a "safe" player while neutering all the benefits he could bring as a top offensive talent in this league.

A lot of Penguins fans wanted Letang traded during his struggles, but now he's such an essential part of our offense I can't imagine where we'd be without him. Certainly no second Cup.

I agree with a poster here who said it's the coach's job to put the players in the best position to succeed, and hopefully Bednar can see some flexibility in his methodologies in the new year. It would really be a shame to lose a talent like that without a) the assurance that there's an equal offensive talent coming back (you certainly don't need more defensive guys between Tyutin, Johnson, and Beauchemin) or b) the knowledge of what he can do with his full potential maximized instead of trying to force a square peg in a round hole. I feel certain you'd regret it down the line, even with reinforcements coming up, when the team still struggles to score.

 

[McMetal]

I think the difference is that Letang can play defense when called upon. Barrie just can't. I'm not sure I'm comfortable with having a fourth forward out on the ice for 20 minutes a game.

 

[Balthazar]

I think the difference is that Letang can play defense when called upon. Barrie just can't. I'm not sure I'm comfortable with having a fourth forward out on the ice for 20 minutes a game.

You mean like Erik Karlsson and Brent Burns?

 

[Balthazar]

You guys seem to be split on what should be done with it

Keep in mind that when you ask stuff to fans of a team who's underachieving to the point of being dead last in the league, you'll likely get an emotional opinion instead of an objective one.

 

[tigervixxxen]

The objective opinion is Barrie is 3 years to UFA and he's not going to be here when this team is ready to compete but nobody wants to think of it through that lense.

 

[McMetal]

You mean like Erik Karlsson and Brent Burns?

Again, Brent Burns can actually play defense in his own zone. As for Karlsson, I will just point to the wild success that Ottawa team has had with him on their blueline as exhibit A of why we don't need Barrie.

 

[Miri]

Which offensive skills? He's not that great offensively.

Seriously? What is this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3BAOO7BY5s

EDIT: Would post as embedded vid, but it never works for me for whatever reason.

 

[Avs44]

Yeah, saying Barrie doesn't have high offensive talent just seems really silly to me, sorry TV. You don't have back to back 50 point seasons from the blueline if you aren't offensively skilled. When he's at his best, he's skilled with the puck, reads plays in the offensive zone well, has decent finish, and is shifty with the puck on his stick. He has a lot of offensive talent.

 

[tigervixxxen]

He doesn't have a good shot, he's not a playmaker, does not do anything creatively or has any special vision, he's not a great passer either. The question was why can't he be a forward, what is he going to do as a forward? He's great at stick handling , skating and rushing the puck. There's a reason why he's nothing much special on the PP. I'm not saying he has no offensive talent but he's not an offense driver.

What was I supposed to see in that video? He has some good offensive instincts jumping on rebounds. Every goal he scored was from the circles in, and nice they put the clip of him ending Despres' career in there too.

 

[Miri]

He doesn't have a good shot, he's not a playmaker, does not do anything creatively or has any special vision, he's not a great passer either. The question was why can't he be a forward, what is he going to do as a forward? He's great at stick handling , skating and rushing the puck. There's a reason why he's nothing much special on the PP. I'm not saying he has no offensive talent but he's not an offense driver.

What was I supposed to see in that video? He has some good offensive instincts jumping on rebounds. Every goal he scored was from the circles in, and nice they put the clip of him ending Despres' career in there too.

Those were some serious snipes in that video, wonder what more does he need to do. And honestly, as long as he produces, and he used to, it matters little to me, if its down to being good and stickhandling or skating, or being a good "offense driver".

I realize there is a chance he might suck as a winger, but if he did, its more likely it would be more down to him being soft at boards or inability to adjust His game, rather than not being good enough at shooting and passing.

 

[hooverdam]

Keep in mind that when you ask stuff to fans of a team who's underachieving to the point of being dead last in the league, you'll likely get an emotional opinion instead of an objective one.

Totally understandable, which is why I kind of gave my perspective as a relative outsider.

I also have the perspective of being a fan of a team who has had "the core" blamed for a lot of bad postseasons and underachieving, so I know the benefit of sticking through while revamping the supporting cast. You have to build around the core properly to get the most out of them.

 

[The Kingslayer]

He misses Nick Holden

 

[Bubba Thudd]

We all do.

 

[AMDZen]

Barrie is a paycheck player. He got his paycheck, now he doesn't play.

This is clearly true, at least to a certain extent. Bednar is a terrible coach with a terrible system but that doesn't excuse Barrie and what he has been this season.

His contract is an albatross. Nobody would take on that cap hit for that level player. We couldn't give him away.

This post almost completely diminishes the value of your first post. Lol

If they could find somebody to take his contract and give us any type of pick, they should do it.

Not only could we unload his contract at any time, we should do so as soon as possible. He should be traded immediately if anything resembling a defensive dman is available. He has clearly stopped playing now that he is paid. Whether he is pissed off at the org for the arb or whatever, something is there and it's irrefutable.

It's the typical conquer mentality, they've already got Facebook on lock, so we're the next community in line to be raided and burnt to the ground by that crap.

Oh please. Facebook is the lowest common denominator of the Internet. Facebook users believe that Facebook is the Internet, you think 90% of them are even aware that this place exists? You give them too much credit.

 

[AMDZen]

The objective opinion is Barrie is 3 years to UFA and he's not going to be here when this team is ready to compete but nobody wants to think of it through that lense.

I love how the answer to our problems is always "wait it out." Because that is a great way to handle anything wrong with the team, let's just wait out their current contract rather than act.

So all the terrible contracts on the team, just wait them out right? Including Sakic who surely won't sign any new free agents to contracts in the meantime, which your solution will be "we'll just wait it out" lol

 

[Yetti090]

This is clearly true, at least to a certain extent. Bednar is a terrible coach with a terrible system but that doesn't excuse Barrie and what he has been this season.

Not only could we unload his contract at any time, we should do so as soon as possible. He should be traded immediately if anything resembling a defensive dman is available. He has clearly stopped playing now that he is paid. Whether he is pissed off at the org for the arb or whatever, something is there and it's irrefutable.

WHAT?? I don't even know what to say to this. I cannot believe this thread. Barrie has had 3 great offensive seasons for us (has played only 5 including this year with the other not being a full season), and has 1 down year (this year) and people are saying he is terrible and time to trade him and no one would take him??? WHAT?!? This whole team is underachieving. He is 3rd on this team in points. While yes I realize his defensive side is not that great this year and has had some in the past, it's 1 year that the ENTIRE TEAM is - in +/- ratings. His pairings have not been that great either and he is an OFFENSIVE defenseman. He is a asset for us and to think that he is a bust at the age of 25 in his 4th real season is a joke.

 

[AMDZen]

WHAT?? I don't even know what to say to this. I cannot believe this thread. Barrie has had 3 great offensive seasons for us (has played only 5 including this year with the other not being a full season), and has 1 down year (this year) and people are saying he is terrible and time to trade him and no one would take him??? WHAT?!? This whole team is underachieving. He is 3rd on this team in points. While yes I realize his defensive side is not that great this year and has had some in the past, it's 1 year that the ENTIRE TEAM is - in +/- ratings. His pairings have not been that great either and he is an OFFENSIVE defenseman. He is a asset for us and to think that he is a bust at the age of 25 in his 4th real season is a joke.

You think it's a coincidence that his 3 good years were when he was trying to make the team and then trying to stay with the team followed by trying to get a big pay day? There are your 3 seasons.

As soon as he is paid its just a coincidence he has his worst season, by far? Yeah sure. The team was bad most of the last 3 years and he put up numbers and now he can't?

This happens time and time again with athletes, it's not a huge surprise. And if you had read the rest of my post I also theorize that it isn't just about getting paid, it is probably also about getting jacked around by the organization and having to go to the arbitration process where the team tells you how bad you are. That is why you don't go to arbitration, because it's a lose lose scenario. You can find posts I made in the summer where I postulated that this very thing could happen. Just another idiot move by our idiot organization and front office

 

[henchman21]

The coaching change has hurt Barrie... under Roy, Barrie had the Karlsson rules... meaning you don't have to play by the rules if you can produce. Under Bednar he gets no such flexibility. You can argue either way as to which is better, but clearly Barrie thrives with freedom in his game.

 

[DenverBoone]

How much of his contract would
We have to retain to move this guy?

 

[The Abusement Park]

How much of his contract would
We have to retain to move this guy?

Zero. Good lord