Barrie is miscast

[Ivan13]

If they could find somebody to take his contract and give us any type of pick, they should do it.

 

[Don Corleone]

If they could find somebody to take his contract and give us any type of pick, they should do it.

A 3rd rounder sounds nice or maybe a 4th. So does Meloche and a 2nd for Doan

 

[IceRat]

my opinion on Barrie has not changed

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=120590125&postcount=521

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=120590491&postcount=525

 

[Metallo]

Well we kinda liked him too when the team did well. Rangers fans have also complained about him when he and the team were doing worse. He's the same player he was here. Decent at his best, bad at his worst. I don't miss him.

When compared to Gelinas, I miss him...

 

[Thepoolmaster]

It's possible you just have to let him play as he pleases to get any value from him, but Avs have no one to cover for him in the defensive zone. Tyutin and Beachemin are too slow, Gelinas and Goloubef are bad in general and Weircioch is not very good defensively.

He's better than he's shown this year but he's a flawed player. He's a small PMD that struggles to move the puck. Unless you let him carry the puck as he wants and jump up in the slot, he's not going to provide you a lot of value.

Because Holden was such a better option than the above. I think Barrie needs to rush the puck to be effective like you said, but to say what defensemen he plays with is the issue is not fair.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Maybe Bednar should adjust to help Barrie be effective?

it seems like bednar has allowed him to 'freewheel' a bit more lately. maybe not enough and way too late but at babysteps at least. he's been allowed to carry the puck more for example.


edit. i also disagree on bednar not making schematic changes. they've cut down on aggressive pinches and how they step up in the neutral zone. not enough to fix all the issues of course but better than nothing. ftr, not saying that bednar has done very good job either.

 

[McMetal]

Barrie is an expensive luxury that this team really doesn't need. He does, however, still have a lot of value in the league and could get us a strong asset going forward. Maybe at the draft a team that just missed the playoffs will sell their first for him thinking he'll put them over the top, and we can draft a guy who can play defense instead with it. He's bad for us, but I hope we move him while he still has value, because we simply don't need a guy back there who doesn't play D.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Barrie is an expensive luxury that this team really doesn't need. He does, however, still have a lot of value in the league and could get us a strong asset going forward. Maybe at the draft a team that just missed the playoffs will sell their first for him thinking he'll put them over the top, and we can draft a guy who can play defense instead with it. He's bad for us, but I hope we move him while he still has value, because we simply don't need a guy back there who doesn't play D.

i wouldn't even have that big of a problem with barrie if the issue was just that he doesn't play D. but on top of that he's seemingly picked up the EJ disease, hitting the shinpads of first opponent when he shoots the puck, he's not creative in the offensive zone, can't QB the powerplay, not a great passer and can't use his teammates on the breakout. and has shown little to zero ability that he can progress in those areas in the past couple of seasons. and has actually regressed when it comes to getting shots through.

 

[henchman21]

it seems like bednar has allowed him to 'freewheel' a bit more lately. maybe not enough and way too late but at babysteps at least. he's been allowed to carry the puck more for example.


edit. i also disagree on bednar not making schematic changes. they've cut down on aggressive pinches and how they step up in the neutral zone. not enough to fix all the issues of course but better than nothing. ftr, not saying that bednar has done very good job either.

Yeah, it seems he has been freewheeling a bit more. It is a product of him just being out more so it happens just naturally more frequently? Is Bednar letting up? Is Barrie just ignoring?

That isn't a schematic change, just coaching the finer points of reads. Narrowing down what should and shouldn't be done within the system. A schematic change would be changing up the neutral zone defense, shifting the breakout, changing the pressures on the forecheck, etc.

 

[Bubba Thudd]

Barrie is an expensive luxury that this team really doesn't need. He does, however, still have a lot of value in the league and could get us a strong asset going forward. Maybe at the draft a team that just missed the playoffs will sell their first for him thinking he'll put them over the top, and we can draft a guy who can play defense instead with it. He's bad for us, but I hope we move him while he still has value, because we simply don't need a guy back there who doesn't play D.

Or at the TDL. Maybe we could take back an expiring dead-weight contract, and get a 1st & 3rd for Barrie. Or 1st & prospect.

 

[Pokecheque]

I'm hoping for that "A-HA!!!!" moment from Barrie. I seem to recall he struggled initially under Roy as well, flopping to block shots, hesitant seemingly everywhere, and looking nervous with the puck. I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure he even got sent down, then got called back immediately and that's when it all suddenly clicked.

I'm still mystified as to what exactly is wrong. Luke Steer posted some numbers that give me hope, but I still don't feel like Bednar's system is so radically different that Barrie is struggling with it to this degree. But maybe it's a combination of that and other factors that have torpedoed this season. I sure hope thought they figure it out this season at the very least, this is really tough to watch.

 

[henchman21]

The moment where Barrie clicked with Roy was when he started listening to what Roy wanted out of him. Roy wanted him to get the puck and rush with it immediately. If a pass was there, make it, but the real idea was for Barrie to rush the puck. Roy saw what Barrie was good at and wanted him to capitalize on that. He tried to limit the area where Barrie wasn't good. I hope I am wrong, but I don't see Bednar doing that. He wants his players to conform with him, not the other way around.

 

[ArWKo]

I'm curious to see what some of the people who really understand the coaching side of things a lot better than I do think of the idea that Bednar is having to break a lot of the fast pace transition game Roy pushed so heavily to try to adjust the team to his system which could explain some of the team's offensive struggles and also why a guy like Barrie is struggling so much this season.

Anything to that at all?

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

If they could find somebody to take his contract and give us any type of pick, they should do it.

These boards are starting to become unbearable with the type of posts we're seeing every day.


This is a great example of one of those posts.

 

[Tweaky]

I really really want to do a one liner post for this....





...as a defensman.


*ducks

 

[CobraAcesS]

These boards are starting to become unbearable with the type of posts we're seeing every day.


This is a great example of one of those posts.

It's the typical conquer mentality, they've already got Facebook on lock, so we're the next community in line to be raided and burnt to the ground by that crap.

 

[Sea Eagles]

If they could find somebody to take his contract and give us any type of pick, they should do it.

Mate, I understand your frustration, but we have to remember, Barrie had defensive flaws prior to signing his contract, and even stated around the time of signing it, that is one area he is hoping to improve on.

Offensively, he's actually not doing anywhere as bad as people say to be honest. He's on pace for 40 points (almost), that keeps him right up there, in a poorer year for him.

On a team that has solid D first D-men, and maybe a few solid two way forwards, Barrie would excel in my opinion. I actually think we'd regret trading him away. I think the NHL world knows what raw talent this kid has tbh.

For that reason, I think he'd actually fetch us quite a good return be it picks or player. I wouldn't trade him like for like (i.e. offensive D-man for offensive D-man, because he's already great in that role). If we could use him for a more defensively sound D-man (and I'd want a good one), or even a top 6 forward (I think he would net us one of those), then maybe.

He'll bounce back mate. Remember the whole team is down. He's an offensive D-man, who's struggling to put the rubber in the net, so (well, I feel anyway) is gripping his stick, because that burdon as the main quarterback is probably heavily upon him.

 

[henchman21]

I'm curious to see what some of the people who really understand the coaching side of things a lot better than I do think of the idea that Bednar is having to break a lot of the fast pace transition game Roy pushed so heavily to try to adjust the team to his system which could explain some of the team's offensive struggles and also why a guy like Barrie is struggling so much this season.

Anything to that at all?

I wouldn't say that. Roy adjusted to the team he had. Bednar is forcing the team to adjust to him. Hockey systems are not all that different at their core and there are only a handful used in the NHL. Some players simply don't fit in some, but I don't think that the system is the real issue here. Barrie is one of those special rule sort of players. He needs to play a certain way to be effective, and he needs to be allowed that freedom. Without it, he will struggle. That is what we are seeing.

IMO the biggest issue with Bednar's system (not his coaching) is that he expects all players to play strictly within it and allows little to no creative freedom for the skilled players (it is fine with the scrubs for them to confined). It also makes it really easy to defend after getting some tape. The same cycles and set plays are used... the same spacing is held throughout the ice. It leads to boring, bland hockey in a 2-1/3-2 world in the NHL.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I'm curious to see what some of the people who really understand the coaching side of things a lot better than I do think of the idea that Bednar is having to break a lot of the fast pace transition game Roy pushed so heavily to try to adjust the team to his system which could explain some of the team's offensive struggles and also why a guy like Barrie is struggling so much this season.

Anything to that at all?

I think the biggest thing is that Bednar is pushing players to move the puck around and break out as a team but Barrie breaks out best with his legs. Barrie hasn't been doing that this season so I assume coaching is the reason for that.

Barrie is no worse defensively or on the powerplay this season than he has been in the past. He's always been bad in those areas. The difference is that he's not using his legs to break out and he isn't jumping into the play which are his two biggest strengths. Without his strengths he isn't a good hockey player.

 

[henchman21]

Without his strengths he isn't a good hockey player.

This! But play to his strengths and he is an excellent offensive defensemen.

 

[Pokecheque]

It seems so strange though, I still maintain that Bednar doesn't appear to be discouraging his blueliners from jumping into the play. Johnson was doing a lot of that prior to his injury, and Barrie is still attempting to break it up himself at times, it's just that he's not doing it with the same speed and confidence that we're now used to. The one thing that drove me nuts about Roy's system is that he seemingly encouraged wiiiiiide gaps between the D and O, don't know if that actually benefited #4 since it gave him room to move it up-ice but more often it forced the long guy back to make a long home-run pass that usually got picked off.

Bednar is definitely wanting them to move up-ice as a unit, unfortunately because the team as a whole is so slow they look very methodical offensively. He is also wanting them to dump it when they get in trouble, which unfortunately also leads to bad things since again, they don't really have the speed or physicality to really follow it up and retrieve it.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

It seems so strange though, I still maintain that Bednar doesn't appear to be discouraging his blueliners from jumping into the play. Johnson was doing a lot of that prior to his injury, and Barrie is still attempting to break it up himself at times, it's just that he's not doing it with the same speed and confidence that we're now used to. The one thing that drove me nuts about Roy's system is that he seemingly encouraged wiiiiiide gaps between the D and O, don't know if that actually benefited #4 since it gave him room to move it up-ice but more often it forced the long guy back to make a long home-run pass that usually got picked off.

Bednar is definitely wanting them to move up-ice as a unit, unfortunately because the team as a whole is so slow they look very methodical offensively. He is also wanting them to dump it when they get in trouble, which unfortunately also leads to bad things since again, they don't really have the speed or physicality to really follow it up and retrieve it.

This is true and I honestly think a part of this is on Barrie himself. He's mentioned it multiple times before the season and so far throughout the season that he really has looked at himself and has been working hard to improve his game in his own zone.

I wonder if the arbitration talks between Barrie and the Avs maybe had a bit of an impact on Barrie to the point where he's made it a priority to improve his game in the defensive end where his flaws were undoubtedly pointed out to him in those herrings and likely not in the best of ways.


At some point I hope he realizes that he's at his best when he's moving the puck forward. And can stop worrying about the weaknesses in his game so much and focus more on his strengths a lot more then he is right now.

 

[henchman21]

Barrie doesn't rush the puck in even close to the same numbers as he did under Roy. There is a coaching element. Bednar doesn't want to eliminate it, but he expects other things out of Barrie first. Roy was the opposite, carry first, pass second.

 

[Sea Eagles]

This is true and I honestly think a part of this is on Barrie himself. He's mentioned it multiple times before the season and so far throughout the season that he really has looked at himself and has been working hard to improve his game in his own zone.

I wonder if the arbitration talks between Barrie and the Avs maybe had a bit of an impact on Barrie to the point where he's made it a priority to improve his game in the defensive end where his flaws were undoubtedly pointed out to him in those herrings and likely not in the best of ways.


At some point I hope he realizes that he's at his best when he's moving the puck forward. And can stop worrying about the weaknesses in his game so much and focus more on his strengths a lot more then he is right now.

And please stop with the back passes Really hurts the momentum in the PP imo.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

And please stop with the back passes Really hurts the momentum in the PP imo.

Meh.


I dont have a problem with this part at all really. It's something that almost every team in the league does right now and the Avs are no different. It's not a Barrie thing so much as it is a general PP strategy that Barrie is being told to do.


And It's actually a decent strategy for getting the puck deep on the PP if done correctly, the problem is the Avs PP(In other words our good buddy Tim Army) doesn't know how to do it correctly.


In theory it does a great job at stopping the PKers on the blueline and makes it easier to win a dump/chase race for the puck or easier to maneuver into the offensive zone. But the Avs are doing something wrong with it and it's not working for them very well. I think it's about the timing of it and where Army has them dropping the puck. Needs to happen closer to the blue line.