Barrie is miscast

[chessgoon]

To the surprise of no one, Barrie has shown to be miscast as a top four defenseman. What's more, his deficiencies are the kind that are not correctable. He is simply too small to be in the top four. He has one of the worst plus/minus ratings in the league, and this team is stuck with his salary for four years. He'll eventually be demoted to the third pairing/power play point man(where he belongs), and become one of the most overpaid players in the league for his contributions. All we can do is wait for folks like him and Iginla to come off the payroll, and hope in vain that the freed up salary space will be used to sign a more productive player.

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[Avs44]

On seeing the title of this thread I actually thought it was going to be an argument about how he's being misused in his current role on the team, and based on the style Bednar is demanding. This, however...is ridiculous. A defensman with essentially back to back 50 point seasons playing top four minutes, with top 10 even strength numbers, isn't a top four defensman anymore based off of 30 games in a new system?? Give me a break. He needs 1) a capable, two way / defensive defence around him, and 2) needs to be allowed to rove around the ice. Right now he doesn't have either of those things / isn't being allowed to. But he is still, when given those opportunities (even just allowed to rove, forget the good partners) a dynamic offensive defensman, and absolutely a top four defensmen in this league. He's not being put in a position to succeed right now and show off his best qualities whatsoever. He's being told to neuter his offensive game and not rove, and he's being overused with 19 even strength minutes per game, compared to #2, EJ, who was playing just 16 minutes at even strength per game. He's a good top four offensive defender being miscast as something he's not.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Rafalski, Enstrom, Boyle, Enstrom, Letang, Boulion etc.

 

[El Travo]

Well that's certainly an opinion.

 

[DenverBoone]

Barrie is a paycheck player. He got his paycheck, now he doesn't play.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

If Barrie played on a team who's system fits his style he would post 55+ points regularly. He looks terrible this year but it's mostly just his fit on our team.

 

[tigervixxxen]

What if he was traded somewhere not tailor fit to his style, then what? Isn't it up to him to adapt there too? The system also didn't make him play the four goal situations today horribly.

But no, he's not the bottom pairing D the OP is suggesting either.

I'm not ripping on Barrie for his production, as I haven't done with other core players. That's really the least of my concern right now.

 

[Freudian]

It's more that he's can't do what you would expect a normal top four defender to do. Stay with his man and at least attempt to move him off the puck in the defensive zone, get a shot through on the PP and make a decent outlet pass.

That's what $5.5M defenders normally are able to do.

It's possible you just have to let him play as he pleases to get any value from him, but Avs have no one to cover for him in the defensive zone. Tyutin and Beachemin are too slow, Gelinas and Goloubef are bad in general and Weircioch is not very good defensively.

He's better than he's shown this year but he's a flawed player. He's a small PMD that struggles to move the puck. Unless you let him carry the puck as he wants and jump up in the slot, he's not going to provide you a lot of value.

 

[Hennessy]

In the end it's on him to adjust to whatever role he's asked to play, but at the same time it seems stupid to handcuff him by asking him to play the role of a more traditional defenseman. How many times have we seen him pinch in this season? Not many. Maybe Bednar doesn't trust the defense enough to cover for Barrie, which is valid, but it's not as if they were world beaters the last few seasons, either. And given that a major problem with the team is its lack of scoring, maybe unleashing Barrie wouldn't be so bad. It's not like he's doing a great job as it is. May as well let him roam and see what happens. In the worst case scenario the Avs might lose 5-1 instead of 4-1.

Maybe have him take nothing but passing drills for the next three months, as well. Him and everybody else on the team.

 

[Nalens Oga]

He's better than he's shown this year but he's a flawed player. He's a small PMD that struggles to move the puck. Unless you let him carry the puck as he wants and jump up in the slot, he's not going to provide you a lot of value.

This problem was ignored, he's actually quite bad at passing for a puck moving dman and I don't even mean this year. Bigras before his concussion was better at passing the puck up the ice than Barrie. Barrie carries it in which looks impressive but his passing has always been off or too slow or mistimed or whatever.

I don't expect much from Barrie now or ever tbh but my concern is more about how bad he along with some other guys who come in might look in Bednar's 'system'. Let's suppose we get other puck moving dmen coming, they might not look as off as Barrie but will Bednar's system actually enable them to be effective or will it expose them like it exposes Barrie.

 

[henchman21]

Maybe Bednar should adjust to help Barrie be effective?

 

[The Kingslayer]

What if he was traded somewhere not tailor fit to his style, then what? Isn't it up to him to adapt there too? The system also didn't make him play the four goal situations today horribly.

But no, he's not the bottom pairing D the OP is suggesting either.

I'm not ripping on Barrie for his production, as I haven't done with other core players. That's really the least of my concern right now.

The system also doesnt tell him not to make a tape to tape 5 foot pass to his linemates.

 

[dahrougem2]

Maybe Bednar should adjust to help Barrie be effective?

Meh. I understand the reasoning behind this, and it is valid, but there is nothing about how Bednar is coaching Barrie that limits Tyson from making tape-to-tape passes. Counted about 4 or 5 times today where he held on to the puck way too long to the point where the forwards were in no position to receive a pass from him.

 

[henchman21]

Meh. I understand the reasoning behind this, and it is valid, but there is nothing about how Bednar is coaching Barrie that limits Tyson from making tape-to-tape passes. Counted about 4 or 5 times today where he held on to the puck way too long to the point where the forwards were in no position to receive a pass from him.

It is too simplistic to put all of Barrie's struggles on that, but going with it... it is Bednar's job to put the players in the best position to succeed. Forcing Barrie to strictly play within the system obviously isn't working. Barrie isn't a good first passer. Never has been. So instead of forcing him to do that and failing all the time... maybe try something he is good at. This isn't just a Barrie problem either. This flows through the roster.

People got on Roy for not adjusting (which I disagree with), but Bednar hasn't changed a thing besides lines through all the struggles. Not a single systematic change has happened... once the league had a bit of tape... it was all shut down. That is not a coincidence.

 

[Foppa2118]

I'm pretty tired of hearing excuses for Av players not playing well. This guy never has the right line mates. This guy needs top 6 minutes to be effective. This guy needs a specific system to play well.

Maybe we have a team full of prima dona's that can't play good enough hockey unless everything is tailor fit for them. Maybe that's the problem. Good luck tailor fitting ONE style and situation for 20 different hockey players that can only succeed one way.

 

[the_fan]

Barrie would be an amazing d-man on a good team. Just picture him playing for a team like the Hawks, Pens etc... Every d-men look like crap playing for the Avs right now

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

Barrie would be an amazing d-man on a good team. Just picture him playing for a team like the Hawks, Pens etc... Every d-men look like crap playing for the Avs right now

True words. Almost everybody sucks now for Avalanche.

 

[Foppa2118]

The team is sucking because the players are sucking. The players don't suck because the team does. This is just more excuse making.

Tyson Barrie shouldn't need to play on the best team in the last six years in Chicago to play well.

 

[the_fan]

The team is sucking because the players are sucking. The players don't suck because the team does. This is just more excuse making.

Tyson Barrie shouldn't need to play on the best team in the last six years in Chicago to play well.

Then how come Holden looked horrible with the Avs but looks like a good player for the Rangers? I think it goes both ways. The whole team needs to be good for individual players to look good and vice versa. Right now neither the individual players or the team look good for the Avs outside couple of players.

 

[Balthazar]

Then how come Holden looked horrible with the Avs but looks like a good player for the Rangers?

Last time I checked (~2 weeks ago) there was quite a love fest for Holden on the Rangers board. They do like him a lot and some were saying that getting him for a 4th rounder was one of the best move that their GM have made. I now wonder if it's true that Roy called Vigneault after the trade to tell him that he just got one of his best dman.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Maybe Bednar should adjust to help Barrie be effective?

Crazy talk!!!

 

[DenverBoone]

Barrie would be an amazing d-man on a good team. Just picture him playing for a team like the Hawks, Pens etc... Every d-men look like crap playing for the Avs right now

His contract is an albatross. Nobody would take on that cap hit for that level player. We couldn't give him away.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Last time I checked (~2 weeks ago) there was quite a love fest for Holden on the Rangers board. They do like him a lot and some were saying that getting him for a 4th rounder was one of the best move that their GM have made. I now wonder if it's true that Roy called Vigneault after the trade to tell him that he just got one of his best dman.

Why wouldn't it be true? It was in an article, it's not like some HF poster made it up.

I'm sure everyone would look great just allowed freedom to do whatever they want. Barrie plays freaking 25 minutes a night now. It's not like he's being shunned or eased in like Zadorov. Barrie is part of the reason the PP is ineffective too, he's just not a pp QB or strong point man. He wasn't that outstanding before. He's a good player but it's not like he has elite skill.

His contract is an albatross. Nobody would take on that cap hit for that level player. We couldn't give him away.

Oh please, come on.

 

[UncleRisto]

Last time I checked (~2 weeks ago) there was quite a love fest for Holden on the Rangers board. They do like him a lot and some were saying that getting him for a 4th rounder was one of the best move that their GM have made. I now wonder if it's true that Roy called Vigneault after the trade to tell him that he just got one of his best dman.

Well we kinda liked him too when the team did well. Rangers fans have also complained about him when he and the team were doing worse. He's the same player he was here. Decent at his best, bad at his worst. I don't miss him.

 

[DenverBoone]

Why wouldn't it be true? It was in an article, it's not like some HF poster made it up.

I'm sure everyone would look great just allowed freedom to do whatever they want. Barrie plays freaking 25 minutes a night now. It's not like he's being shunned or eased in like Zadorov. Barrie is part of the reason the PP is ineffective too, he's just not a pp QB or strong point man. He wasn't that outstanding before. He's a good player but it's not like he has elite skill.



Oh please, come on.

If they could find somebody to take his contract and give us any type of pick, they should do it.