Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 17-18 Part VII

[UncleRisto]

Based on what? Girard wasn't getting all this hype until recently with his camp, pre-season and making the roster to start the year.

Well I just think the hype is on Girard's side but it could very well be an Elliott-Barrie situation.

 

[JoeSakic13]

Well I just think the hype is on Girard's side but it could very well be an Elliott-Barrie situation.

Man I forgot about him for a second there....Shame he never panned out.

 

[MonsterMack]

Chambers just posted maybe the most pointless article I've ever read, about Beauchemin.

 

[Pokecheque]

Chambers just posted maybe the most pointless article I've ever read, about Beauchemin.

Even misspells his name in the headline

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/10/14/francois-beauchemin-anaheim-ducks-nhl/

Man you weren’t kidding though. What a tone-deaf and uninformed waste. It’s like Chambers didn’t watch a single game last season.

 

[klozge]

Even misspells his name in the headline

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/10/14/francois-beauchemin-anaheim-ducks-nhl/

Man you weren’t kidding though. What a tone-deaf and uninformed waste. It’s like Chambers didn’t watch a single game last season.

...or this season. I'm so glad Avs got rid of his veteran leadership.

 

[Bender]

We could bring in Chabot and find out he's secretly the son of Aki Berg.

This made me laugh out loud...

Girard and Chabot were the 2 best defensemen in the Q last year and most QMJHL fans could argue that both were equally as good. What was holding him back at the draft and in the hype department was his size. Now that he has done well in camp, pre-season and regular season his size isn't as much of an issue.

Girard won the best dman award in 2016 (at the age of 17, only for the 4th time in the Q's history), Chabot won it last year despite Girard having a better year offensively. Sometimes I get the feeling that people here think that Girard is some 2nd rounder kid coming out of nowhere. He isn't.

I don't think for most people it's really that. They know who this kid is and what he can do. I think that his size is a legitimate concern. How many top pairing D-men are there in the NHL right now that are 5'10 - 165lbs or smaller? How many Top-4 guys with that size? How many in the last 15 years? I don't know the exact answer to that question but I know the answer is that it's not a large number. I was higher on Girard that most were during his draft year (had him ranked 29th as a late-first rounder) but there is still a certain amount of risk in acquiring him and banking that he's destined to be a Top-4 guy, imo. Could it happen? Absolutely but unproven is still unproven and that's why they would need to add to get a player like Duchene.

We are playing them Tuesday and we'll get a first hand look. I personally cannot wait because I do think there's a showcase going on and Nashville is one of a few teams that are truly in a position to put together an excellent package of prospects + draft picks to acquire Duchene. I think they feel great about their potential to re-sign him as well and it's a great fit on their end.

I didn't want Duchene traded last season, the off season, or now. Always wanted him here.

That's fine as long as you understand that he's still going to be moved though.

 

[tucker3434]

Even misspells his name in the headline

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/10/14/francois-beauchemin-anaheim-ducks-nhl/

Man you weren’t kidding though. What a tone-deaf and uninformed waste. It’s like Chambers didn’t watch a single game last season.

How do you look at this years defense and think it needs to be more like last year?

 

[The Merchant]

How do you look at this years defense and think it needs to be more like last year?

Clickbait. How else are you gonna drag people back to the DP?

 

[Balthazar]

I don't think for most people it's really that. They know who this kid is and what he can do. I think that his size is a legitimate concern. How many top pairing D-men are there in the NHL right now that are 5'10 - 165lbs or smaller? How many Top-4 guys with that size? How many in the last 15 years?

Karlsson was 5'11 165 lbs on draft day. I feel like we went through all this stuff with Makar.

 

[Ivan13]

Karlsson is a freak and one of the best D this league has ever seen, how in the world can you use him to back up your claim? Not to mention that he is of stocky build and extremely strong on his skates, like Crosby and that he bulked up since drafted, which isn't the case for all drafted at that size. Just an absurd parallel.

 

[Avs_19]

Sens need to just send Chabot our way and get it over with. No reason to keep him in the AHL.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

Karlsson was 5'11 165 lbs on draft day. I feel like we went through all this stuff with Makar.

It was true then and it is now. There is a small group of top4 Dmen under 6'. Drops a lot more when talking about guys under 5'11".

And Karslsson was 6'.

 

[Balthazar]

It was true then and it is now. There is a small group of top4 Dmen under 6'. Drops a lot more when talking about guys under 5'11".

And Karslsson was 6'.

No he was not.

http://www.mynhldraft.com/2008/round1
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/erik_karlsson/

He's a smallish, offensive defenceman out of Sweden that put up nearly a point per game this past year. He checks in at 5'11 and 165 lbs so he's still very immature from a physical perspective. Moves the puck well, skates "like a forward" and can make that all important first pass. This is a name that seems to be gaining steam from around the league as the draft has been getting closer. One non-Oiler source predicted that Karlsson wouldn't make it out of the top 20 so who knows if Edmonton would even have a shot. Although he's a similar player to the Chorney's and Wild's that Edmonton already has on board... you can't have enough of these types of players in this day and age.

 

[JoeSakic13]

Sens need to just send Chabot our way and get it over with. No reason to keep him in the AHL.

He's already on the main squad though....

 

[Avs_19]

He's already on the main squad though....

They sent him back down today.

 

[JoeSakic13]

They sent him back down today.

Did they? Apologies I missed that one. Bizarre, he was only 3 games in.

 

[JoeSakic13]

This made me laugh out loud...

Had a feeling you'd enjoy that player reference

 

[Avs_19]

Did they? Apologies I missed that one. Bizarre, he was only 3 games in.

I think it might be because Karlsson is ready to come back but I'm not sure. Chabot looked fine from the little I saw yesterday.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

No he was not.

http://www.mynhldraft.com/2008/round1
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/erik_karlsson/

He's a smallish, offensive defenceman out of Sweden that put up nearly a point per game this past year. He checks in at 5'11 and 165 lbs so he's still very immature from a physical perspective. Moves the puck well, skates "like a forward" and can make that all important first pass. This is a name that seems to be gaining steam from around the league as the draft has been getting closer. One non-Oiler source predicted that Karlsson wouldn't make it out of the top 20 so who knows if Edmonton would even have a shot. Although he's a similar player to the Chorney's and Wild's that Edmonton already has on board... you can't have enough of these types of players in this day and age.

Those are not official. They probably just pulled the info from his team's roster page. At the draft combine (the only source I trust) he measured 5'11.75", which is rounded to 6', not 5'11".

 

[JoeSakic13]

I think it might be because Karlsson is ready to come back but I'm not sure. Chabot looked fine from the little I saw yesterday.

Yeah I guess so, I just figured that he would beat out Claesson for a roster spot. That being said Oduya is nearly back too so he might be sent down soon too. Wow I never really thought about how much depth at D Ottawa has right now.

 

[McMetal]

Karlsson was 5'11 165 lbs on draft day. I feel like we went through all this stuff with Makar.

Makar hasn't proven anything yet, so slow your roll on that. And there is a big difference between 5'11.75" and 5'10. Not every sub 6' offensive defenseman is automatically Karlsson, there's a reason there isn't more than one of him in the league.

 

[Balthazar]

Makar hasn't proven anything yet, so slow your roll on that. And there is a big difference between 5'11.75" and 5'10. Not every sub 6' offensive defenseman is automatically Karlsson, there's a reason there isn't more than one of him in the league.

I didn't say he was Karlsson, Bender was asking about 165 lbs dmen in the top 4.

The point is Girard has been extremely good for quite some time. Like "at the top of a CHL league" good. Not the best of his team. Not the best of AJHL. Best of a CHL league. That's big.

He didn't start being good last week when some people heard his name for the first time apparently. That's all I have to say about Sam Girard. He was, and still is, an exceptional defenseman and people need to stop acting like it's just my opinion.

 

[JoemAvs]

I didn't say he was Karlsson, Bender was asking about 165 lbs dmen in the top 4.

The point is Girard has been extremely good for quite some time. Like "at the top of a CHL league" good. Not the best of his team. Not the best of AJHL. Best of a CHL league. That's big.

He didn't start being good last week when some people heard his name for the first time apparently. That's all I have to say about Sam Girard. He was, and still is, an exceptional defenseman and people need to stop acting like it's just my opinion.

I don't think anyone is saying that Girard is not a very high end CHL defender. Certainly one of the best out there right now.

What people like myself are doubting is if he will turn into high end NHL defender. Because like it or not. There is a huge difference between that which you IMO are a bit too easy to dismiss...

Girard is very, very skilled. The question was always how his game will translate given his suboptimal size.

That was always the questionmark with him and is the reason why he got drafted in the 2nd round and not higher.

If teams were drafting players to play in Major Junior, you bet he would have been a 1st rounder back then. Probably even top 10 pick. But he wasn't because there were too many questionmarks how he would translate to the next level given his size.


These questions are far from answered after a couple of NHL games...

I haven't seen the last NSH game but after reading the NSH board afterwards because I was curious how he did, fans over there seem to believe that he has quite a lot to learn still...


Girard right now is a pretty high risk potentially high reward D prospect right now. His upside is high (although I don't think his size will ever allow him to turn into a true #1 D).

He could be a very nice piece in a Duchene deal.

But he shouldn't be the main piece unless there is a crapton coming our way as well. Arguably it would need a piece that is atleast as valuable or even more + 1st rounder for me to consider it...


I get that you are a fan of the kid but you are overselling him big time if you think that at this stage swapping him for Duchene and 2nd round picks and meh roster forwards is even close to a good idea...

 

[Balthazar]

Girard right now is a pretty high risk potentially high reward D prospect right now. His upside is high (although I don't think his size will ever allow him to turn into a true #1 D).

He could be a very nice piece in a Duchene deal.

But he shouldn't be the main piece unless there is a crapton coming our way as well. Arguably it would need a piece that is atleast as valuable or even more + 1st rounder for me to consider it...

Then we'll simply not get him. It's ok, too.

Just so you know you're asking for a package similar in value to Makar + Jost + 1st for Duchene.

 

[JoemAvs]

Then we'll simply not get him. It's ok, too.

Just so you know you're asking for a package similar in value to Makar + Jost + 1st for Duchene.

Yeah.
Thats just completely wrong.

I am not the biggest Makar fan in the world but people love him for a reason.
He is clearly ahead of Girard as a prospect by a decent margin.

Jost can not be compared to Tolvanen.

Eeli slipped to 30th in a weak draft for a reason.

He seems to prove a lot of people wrong right now but it is still only 20 games in and doing it on bigger ice at wing.

Jost was projected to be a center with a game that should translate decently to the NHL...

Not really comparable...



But I get it. You love the kid.
You very well might be right on him later on.

But right now he simply does not hold the value you think he does and I for one am not willing to gamble a stud like Duchene away on him unless the Preds add that crapload I am talking about.

He isn't a good fit anyways....

We already have Makar who is a bit taller but also rather undersized as well as Barrie.

I would prefer a prospect that projects a bit better defensively in return.

Especially given that guys like Hughes or Smith that project to be maybe in our range in the 2018 draft anyways are on the smaller side as well.

And I take these guys over Girard personally...