Auston Matthews vs Patrik Laine - Round III

[JustaFinnishGuy]

He outscored Matthews in WJC and was the key clutch guy for a total underdog gold medal winning team.

Otherwise yeah, but Tappara was a championship winner candidate from the day playoffs started. As soon as the Finals came, I was sure Tappara would win it. They had the better team, and also had the better individuals.

 

[Atomos2]

And it was just a a year ago in this forum, fans were talking about how Laine's skating was poor?

So, he's been gradually but steadily improving, it sounds like it.

Let the Leafs draft Matthews. They've been such an inept organization for so long, they might as well continue.

Oh the ineptitude of drafting a franchise centre with the 1st overall pick.

I think I'd put that mistake just below the Clarkson signing

 

[kunekune]

*Laine outperforms Matthews in the WJC:
"eh it's just one tournament let's see when X"

*Laine outperforms Matthews euro-league playoff performance by far:
"eh it's just one tournament let's see when X"

*people bring out hypothetical scenarios of Laine clearly outperforming Matthews:
"eh it's just one tournament let's see when X"

But Matthews will bring 8 stanley cups in a row to Toronto.

TSN already told this.

 

[Keeptdos]

Do you not realize that 99% of scouts put 0 stock in putting up 3 points versus Belarus.

Matthews was the best player on the ice against an all-star Team Canada team. Not to mention his line-mates were absolute garbage.

Leafs just went through life with an offensive winger. His name was Phil Kessel and how did that turn out. Not to mention Laine wasn't half the prospect Phil was.

No brainer at Matthews first.

Well USA is against Belarus today, Matthews can shine there but if not 2+2 bust am I right? . Also this is why I find funny when people put Olympic gold for players resume. It's hard to win it if you aren't Canada. Sometimes I wonder why people seem to hate Laine and he is more than half the prospect Phil was. Get real.

 

[Shwaguy*]

Matthews would be the best player available and first overall even if Laine were a center.


Matthews isn't first overall because he's a center.

He's first overall because he's just straight up a better Hockey player than Laine. He's straight up the better talent. He's smarter, faster, better defensively, a better playmaker, has similar goal scoring upside (Matthews might score closer to 40 while Laine scores closer to 50). He's just more skilled overall.

Equal/Similar offensive ceiling (Both 40 goal scorers + PPG or higher) but Matthews has elite 2 way game and has the potential to contend for Selke's throughout his career (And with Babs as his coach we can all see it happening).

 

[Marlander93]

Relax, both are fantastic players and regardless of who ends up where. The jets and leafs are getting an elite talent either way. You're coming off like a 5 year old.

I don't believe both will be great players tbh. Laine will be a 60-65 point winger which imo is above average.

Matthews will be a franchise centre.

People just trying to make a story out of nothing.

 

[thomast]

Do you not realize that 99% of scouts put 0 stock in putting up 3 points versus Belarus.

Matthews was the best player on the ice against an all-star Team Canada team. Not to mention his line-mates were absolute garbage.

Leafs just went through life with an offensive winger. His name was Phil Kessel and how did that turn out. Not to mention Laine wasn't half the prospect Phil was.

No brainer at Matthews first.

Matthews wad best team on ice in USA-CAN for both teams? Can you honesty say that? He was impressive as 18 year old playing that well against Canada and he was one of the better players for USA but he wasn't even close being best player on ice in that game.

 

[goblin3]

Do you not realize that 99% of scouts put 0 stock in putting up 3 points versus Belarus.

Matthews was the best player on the ice against an all-star Team Canada team. Not to mention his line-mates were absolute garbage.

Leafs just went through life with an offensive winger. His name was Phil Kessel and how did that turn out. Not to mention Laine wasn't half the prospect Phil was.

No brainer at Matthews first.

And Laine was better than guys like Jokinen, Koivu or Granlund. And Belarus is better than NLA or Liiga teams.

 

[Nithoniniel]

I don't believe both will be great players tbh. Laine will be a 60-65 point winger which imo is above average.

Matthews will be a franchise centre.

People just trying to make a story out of nothing.

Out of nothing?

Flaunting ignorance is fun, huh? Jeez. I'm going to have to retract what I said earlier about Laine supporters taking the more absurd stance.

And Laine was better than guys like Jokinen, Koivu or Granlund. And Belarus is better than NLA or Liiga teams.

I once saw Colton Orr have a better game than Phil Kessel too.

Laine had a superb game, but in a vacuum that was also all it was. One game.

 

[JS91]

At this point I'd say that there isn't a clear BPA in this draft. There are two very different players who both could be the BPA in the draft, it just depends on what a team is looking to get from this draft. To a lesser extent this seems like a Crosby vs Ovechkin situation all over again. I do think that Matthews goes to Toronto simply because he fits their plans much better. Laine to Winnipeg is an absolute jackpot for the Jets in my opinion because not only does he seem to be on par with Matthews skill wise, he also fits their plans better in my opinion.

So as far as I can tell I'd say that the best situation for both the Leafs and the Jets would be to have Matthews go to Toronto and Laine to Winnipeg.

 

[JustaFinnishGuy]

I don't believe both will be great players tbh. Laine will be a 60-65 point winger which imo is above average.

Matthews will be a franchise centre.

People just trying to make a story out of nothing.

60-65 should be considered as good. 44 players out of 898 in this year has/had that milestone.

 

[Mugzy97]

That's fine by me. I haven't spent the last 5 days bashing Pulju to make myself feel better about our apparent pick unlike fans of a certain other team

I never bashed anybody. I just think it's funny that Laine is getting pumped up to be #1 when he in fact will not be chosen #1. So for all these people trying to compare the top 2 sayin Laine has been and will be better are just stating their opinion and there are far more people with the opinion that Matthews is better. I'll go with the majority.

 

[Gabranth]

*Laine outperforms Matthews in the WJC:
"eh it's just one tournament let's see when X"

*Laine outperforms Matthews euro-league playoff performance by far:
"eh it's just one tournament let's see when X"

*people bring out hypothetical scenarios of Laine clearly outperforming Matthews:
"eh it's just one tournament let's see when X"

Well it's the Leafs they're not really known for drafting great players.

I've nothing against Matthews and think that he is going to have a great career.

 

[Mestaruus]

Matthews would be the best player available and first overall even if Laine were a center.


Matthews isn't first overall because he's a center.

He's first overall because he's just straight up a better Hockey player than Laine. He's straight up the better talent. He's smarter, faster, better defensively, a better playmaker, has similar goal scoring upside (Matthews might score closer to 40 while Laine scores closer to 50). He's just more skilled overall.

Equal/Similar offensive ceiling (Both 40 goal scorers + PPG or higher) but Matthews has elite 2 way game and has the potential to contend for Selke's throughout his career (And with Babs as his coach we can all see it happening).

A serious question. How much have u seen of Laine?

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Matthews would be the best player available and first overall even if Laine were a center.


Matthews isn't first overall because he's a center.

He's first overall because he's just straight up a better Hockey player than Laine. He's straight up the better talent. He's smarter, faster, better defensively, a better playmaker, has similar goal scoring upside (Matthews might score closer to 40 while Laine scores closer to 50). He's just more skilled overall.

Equal/Similar offensive ceiling (Both 40 goal scorers + PPG or higher) but Matthews has elite 2 way game and has the potential to contend for Selke's throughout his career (And with Babs as his coach we can all see it happening).

Would Matthews go first overall if he were a Left Winger?

He would probably go 3rd overall if this were the case.

 

[Nithoniniel]

At this point I'd say that there isn't a clear BPA in this draft. There are two very different players who both could be the BPA in the draft, it just depends on what a team is looking to get from this draft. To a lesser extent this seems like a Crosby vs Ovechkin situation all over again. I do think that Matthews goes to Toronto simply because he fits their plans much better. Laine to Winnipeg is an absolute jackpot for the Jets in my opinion because not only does he seem to be on par with Matthews skill wise, he also fits their plans better in my opinion.

So as far as I can tell I'd say that the best situation for both the Leafs and the Jets would be to have Matthews go to Toronto and Laine to Winnipeg.

Very reasonable stance. I have Matthews as the better prospect, but Laine is close enough to warrant discussion and for individual assessments to vary.

I do find it funny how there's this picture being portrayed here where Leafs fans are unreasonable and hyping Matthews to be a clear #1 when he's not. Judging by what information we've got from most scouting sites, NHL employed scouts and McKenzie asking GMs, Matthews seem to be a clear favorite there as well. I don't think other GMs are biased towards Leafs.

 

[Ippenator]

Careers are not made in one tournament.

But if it does happen, I'll be quite upset initially. For how long who knows.

Oh? Who would claim that was the case here? Laine had a better WJC than Matthews. Matthews had a better regular season in his Swiss team than Laine in his Finnish team (although after the WJC there wasn't really that big margin) and Laine had a very clearly better playoffs performance for his team than Matthews had. And if Laine has clearly better results in the WHC in the toughest of these tournaments against men, he has a 3-1 result against Matthews. And so far he has been Mr. Clutch for his two previous championships. If Finland wins even WHC and he continues his amazing clutch performing, then I would really like to see what are the tangible arguments of how Matthews still outclasses Laine? It happens in someones dreams, or what?

But ok, lets watch the tournament to the end and see...

 

[kunekune]

I never bashed anybody. I just think it's funny that Laine is getting pumped up to be #1 when he in fact will not be chosen #1. So for all these people trying to compare the top 2 sayin Laine has been and will be better are just stating their opinion and there are far more people with the opinion that Matthews is better. I'll go with the majority.

Thank you for your input. I couldn't have lived without it.

 

[Pete Dunham]

And if Matthews doesn't get 3 points tonight he is still the better player.

Yeah I wouldn't base it off of one game. But if this continues to be a trend in the tournament, I don't know how Leaf fans can say he still is the better player.

You can have all the fundamentals you want, but if you can't put the puck in the net, how long will you remain the 1C?

It's strange watching the Canadian media - "yes Laine absolutely dominated, took 13 shots blah blah, but the Leafs should still select Matthews."

 

[Marlander93]

60-65 should be considered as good. 44 players out of 898 in this year has/had that milestone.

Nobody wins Championships with teams built around a 60-65 point winter. What a joke.

 

[kunekune]

Very reasonable stance. I have Matthews as the better prospect, but Laine is close enough to warrant discussion and for individual assessments to vary.

I do find it funny how there's this picture being portrayed here where Leafs fans are unreasonable and hyping Matthews to be a clear #1 when he's not. Judging by what information we've got from most scouting sites, NHL employed scouts and McKenzie asking GMs, Matthews seem to be a clear favorite there as well. I don't think other GMs are biased towards Leafs.

Mckenzie already said more euro-based scouts have Laine #1 than Matthews #1.

It is the na-based scouts who rarely see these kids playing who have matthews as consensus #1.

Someone can link the article/tweet about it coz im on mobile.

 

[SanDogBrewin]

That's your opinion that Matthews is better. My opinion has been for a while that Laine is the better player of the two.

You are a Leafs fan right?

No I am not a Leafs. Your theory, it's only Leaf fans, that like Matthews is not true.

 

[goblin3]

Nobody wins Championships with teams built around a 60-65 point winter. What a joke.

Yeah not like Laine has won every championship possible this year.
What has Matthews won?

 

[Nithoniniel]

Yeah I wouldn't base it off of one game. But if this continues to be a trend in the tournament, I don't know how Leaf fans can say he still is the better player.

You can have all the fundamentals you want, but if you can't put the puck in the net, how long will you remain the 1C?

It's strange watching the Canadian media - "yes Laine absolutely dominated, took 13 shots blah blah, but the Leafs should still select Matthews."

Why is that strange? It only would be if it was a lengthy occurance. Laine performing incredibly well is that, Matthews not performing similarly offensively is not. If Canadian media would make a big deal about how Laine dominated and had 3 points, 13 shots and so on and made him into the #1 pick all of a sudden, I'd call that sensationalist journalism.

Mckenzie already said more euro-based scouts have Laine #1 than Matthews #1.

It is the na-based scouts who rarely see these kids playing who have matthews as consensus #1.

Someone can link the article/tweet about it coz im on mobile.

Interesting. I'll try to find the source.

Personally, I don't get why people get so worked up about this. Two absolutely terrific prospects, the comparisons to each other is not an insult.

Did you mean this:

It’s believed a consensus was reached on an early draft list, but that doesn’t mean it was unanimous. Maple Leafs director of European scouting Ari Vuori may have made a strong case for Toronto to select Finnish sniper Patrik Laine ahead of Matthews... Vuori, 53, came over to the Maple Leafs last year from the Detroit Red Wings with Mike Babcock. He was instrumental in drafting Anze Kopitar in Los Angeles along with Gustav Nyquist, Tomas Tatar and Teemu Pulkkinen, among others, in Detroit. Since Matthews played in Switzerland this season, European scouts like Vuori have been able to make a better comparison to Laine than any normal year with him in their backyard.

Ari Vouri is an absolutely terrific scout and would have seen both extensively. If he holds Laine as the better prospect, that lends some weight to Toronto possibly picking Laine at #1.

 

[JustaFinnishGuy]

Nobody wins Championships with teams built around a 60-65 point winter. What a joke.

That's totally what I implied And also last year Chicago Blackhawks won without a 70+ point winger/ center. HOW CAN IT BE?
To nowadays standards that should be GOOD, not above average. There's a select few who will put up +70 points in the NHL. Every team won't have them and the most well-rounded team mostly wins. Not the one which has pretty much the one individual. That's my opinion and please prove me wrong.