Player Discussion Auston Matthews Discussion

[Confucius]

I'm just surprised how much hate he gets though. If he played for any other team, people would recognize his greatness at a much higher level.

There is a majority of dumbasses on HFboards who have convinced themselves that Ovi scoring 65 goals was better than Matthews this season. It's absolutely bonkers.

I get that they are just hating but it's still sad.

I don't want Edmonton to win but I can't just hate McDavid and say he's not good when he's clearly the modern GOAT.

I may be wrong but I believe fans of other teams just like trolling Leaf fans.

I looked up the season goal record.
I appreciate the "modern day" caveat, but man no one's going to unseat Wayne on this one....That being said, why is 70 important?

All records get broken eventually it’s just a matter of time.

 

[ToneDog]

I ran the numbers last week and Matthews has about 22-23 games with 0 points and Mackinnon, Kucherov and McDavid were around 12 each.

So I don’t think it’s a choice of Matthews being Mr Goal Scorer vs someone else being Mr Points. It’s a bit worse consistency and about 10 more games where he’s not producing any offense than the Art Ross leaders.

Overall if he had about 10-15 more points, similar 0 point games (less variance) - I don’t care if they’re secondary assists - it would balance out to avoid it 70 goals, 120 points that would get him much closer to the Hart favourite conversation. Right now he’s also looking up at Panarin and Pastrnak in the point race and that’s not ideal.

The fact that we have to explain away a 35 point gap, that kind of takes Matthews out of the running for serious Hart talk. JMO.

Exactly. Argued the same thing with those that thought Matty wins it if he scores 70 goals because last player to put up 70 was 30 years ago and multiple players have put up 140+ points. I still think Kutch deserves it for being more consistent, having points on 50% of TB goals and being 50+ points ahead of Point.

 

[WillNy29]

100 assists is rarer than 70 goals.

I don't know how Kuch or McDavid wouldn't be ahead of both Matthews and Mack.


I think Matthews doesn't win because he wasn't even the best player on the team for almost half of the year.

Kuch and Mack have been the guys from the get go. The points don't mean anything. That's what the Art Ross is for. While rare, even a goalie or defenseman can win the Hart

not going to be when 2 guys do it in the same season....

 

[Confucius]

not going to be when 2 guys do it in the same season....

Pretty amazing really only 8 different people have scored 70 and only 3 have tallied 100 assists. This year 3 more could join that elite list and all 3 play on different teams.

 

[verdi]

I may be wrong but I believe fans of other teams just like trolling Leaf fans.


All records get broken eventually it’s just a matter of time.

I'd bet that 92 stays unbroken.

 

[Confucius]

I'd bet that 92 stays unbroken.

92 isn’t that much more than 86 or 85, so 3 different players in the neighborhood. Surely another will come along. I don’t think hockey has seen the best player it will ever have.

 

[authentic]

Yeah, its nuts that an Elite 2-way center who has 68 goals in 78 games, somehow is still getting ripped.

He's an all-time, generational player and hasn't been appreciated like one yet.

People can barely entertain that he's a generational goal scorer, let alone player. Think of this, when was the last time we saw a 50 goal scorer who has a two-way game comparable to Matthews? Fedorov did that one single season in 1994, and all the rest he was in the 20-40 range. In the post-lockout era I can't think of one perennial Rocket Richard threat who came remotely close to being on his level defensively, and Matthews isn't just a threat, he's the runaway winner in every healthy season now.

 

[Antropovsky]

That Kapanen Johnsson experiment didn’t last very long.

2019 -
200 mins with Kapanen and Johnsson
300 mins with Marleau and Kapanen
170 mins with Johnsson and Nylander

Pacing 88 points with these linemates, in his third season, is pretty damn good.

 

[authentic]

Exactly. Argued the same thing with those that thought Matty wins it if he scores 70 goals because last player to put up 70 was 30 years ago and multiple players have put up 140+ points. I still think Kutch deserves it for being more consistent, having points on 50% of TB goals and being 50+ points ahead of Point.

Kucherov's point total is insane, and he's having one of the best offensive seasons ever, but considering he's only +11 and empty net points count towards your +/-, he would be a -3 right now without his 14 empty net points, and that's playing the majority of his ice time with Brayden Point and Victor Hedman. He cheats for offense like no other, but he also has the hockey IQ and skillset to pull it off and produce at an insane rate. I still wouldn't trade Matthews for him, Matthews is the better hockey player IMO.

 

[MSZ]

I looked up the season goal record.
I appreciate the "modern day" caveat, but man no one's going to unseat Wayne on this one....That being said, why is 70 important?

It isn't that important to me but it is important to a lot of people. Also considering this is the highest goal scoring season since Lemieux in 1996, Lemieux himself couldn't score the 70th goal that season(although he only played 70 games.), that stats alone tells us that 70 isn't an easy number to crack even for the greatest players.

 

[authentic]

It isn't that important to me but it is important to a lot of people. Also considering this is the highest goal scoring season since Lemieux in 1996, Lemieux himself couldn't score the 70th goal that season(although he only played 70 games.), that stats alone tells us that 70 isn't an easy number to crack even for the greatest players.

Lemieux also played 7+ minutes a game on the powerplay that season and sat out the 2nd of every back to back game of the season, also didn't play a lick of defense at even strength. Matthews would score 80+ goals doing that.

 

[ToneDog]

Kucherov's point total is insane, and he's having one of the best offensive seasons ever, but considering he's only +11 and empty net points count towards your +/-, he would be a -3 right now without his 14 empty net points, and that's playing the majority of his ice time with Brayden Point and Victor Hedman. He cheats for offense like no other, but he also has the hockey IQ and skillset to pull it off and produce at an insane rate. I still wouldn't trade Matthews for him, Matthews is the better hockey player IMO.

All 4 deserve the Hart. The only player I would trade Matty for is McDavid and maybe MacKinnon. Some might trade him for Makar. Quinn Hughes is also putting up crooked numbers. I'd take the 3 brothers for Matty. LOL.

 

[MSZ]

Lemieux also played 7+ minutes a game on the powerplay that season and sat out the 2nd of every back to back game of the season, also didn't play a lick of defense at even strength. Matthews would score 80+ goals doing that.

Forget about icetime, if this Leafs team have a 26% PP efficiency like that Penguins team had Matthews would've scored 80 already.

 

[authentic]

All 4 deserve the Hart. The only player I would trade Matty for is McDavid and maybe MacKinnon. Some might trade him for Makar. Quinn Hughes is also putting up crooked numbers. I'd take the 3 brothers for Matty. LOL.

I wouldn't trade him for anyone right now lol, but MacKinnon and McDavid are the only two players in the league I wouldn't argue Matthews is better than.

 

[Jojalu]

not going to be when 2 guys do it in the same season....

It still kind of is..

The fact that they will be 4 and 5 all time is incredible.

There has been multiple 70 goal scorers in a season before.

The fact that scoring is down from the late 70's and early 80's when everyone else got to 100 assists is nuts.

So is 70 goals since it has been over 30 years.

What a year for hockey

 

[ToneDog]

It still kind of is..

The fact that they will be 4 and 5 all time is incredible.

There has been multiple 70 goal scorers in a season before.

The fact that scoring is down from the late 70's and early 80's when everyone else got to 100 assists is nuts.

So is 70 goals since it has been over 30 years.

What a year for hockey

The best is yet to to come and starts April 20th. Best first round of the playoffs of any league.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

URL posted from Leafs app.

Leafs Mobile: NJD@TOR: Matthews scores goal against Jake Allen
NJD@TOR: Matthews scores goal against Jake Allen | Toronto Maple Leafs

https://www.nhl.com/mapleleafs/vide...goal-against-jake-allen-6350724879112?wv=true

 

[Jojalu]

The best is yet to to come and starts April 20th. Best first round of the playoffs of any league.

Agree in principle, but the wind gets knocked out of my sails too early, too often and I have a hard time enjoying the rest for a bit

 

[sxvnert]

 

[Leafsfanperson]

Unless he bets against himself, I think he is a lock to score 70. Hell he might get to 75 if he keeps his foot on the gas and the two Florida teams mail in those final 2 games.

 

[bax]

I may be wrong but I believe fans of other teams just like trolling Leaf fans.


All records get broken eventually it’s just a matter of time.

92 will be really tough to do. I’d love to see Matthews give it a run.

 

[666]

There is a majority of dumbasses on HFboards who have convinced themselves that Ovi scoring 65 goals was better than Matthews this season. It's absolutely bonkers.
I get that they are just hating but it's still sad.

Look man, we all love Matthews but we should try to be reasonable too.

Ovi scored 65 goals in 82 games in 2008.
Matthews has 68 goals so far in 78 games, 79 for the team.

The top team in 2008 had a total of 262 goals and Ovi was on an average team with 242 goals.
The Leafs lead the league this season with 293 already. The top scoring team in 2008 would barely make the playoffs this season based on GF.

In 2008 they had 4 on 4 OT but not 3 on 3 OT.

The next most goals on Ovi's team was 26 and 21. Ovi had 112 points, the next best on his team was 69.
There were 10 40 goal or more goal scorers in 2008.
There are already 16 and will probably 18 this season.

One site (hockey-reference) that attempts to adjust scoring for eras has Ovi at 72 and Matthews at 70 so far. Take that for what it's worth.

We'll never be able to adjust stats for eras especially considering teammates, goalie equipment, health and ice time etc., but shirley you can see that scoring overall is definitely up and that there exists a legitimate argument that Ovi had a better or at least close to equal goal scoring season in 2008.

Either way it's pretty close, the rest is trolling.

 

[authentic]

Look man, we all love Matthews but we should try to be reasonable too.

Ovi scored 65 goals in 82 games in 2008.
Matthews has 68 goals so far in 78 games, 79 for the team.

The top team in 2008 had a total of 262 goals and Ovi was on an average team with 242 goals.
The Leafs lead the league this season with 293 already. The top scoring team in 2008 would barely make the playoffs this season based on GF.

In 2008 they had 4 on 4 OT but not 3 on 3 OT.

The next most goals on Ovi's team was 26 and 21. Ovi had 112 points, the next best on his team was 69.
There were 10 40 goal or more goal scorers in 2008.
There are already 16 and will probably 18 this season.

One site (hockey-reference) that attempts to adjust scoring for eras has Ovi at 72 and Matthews at 70 so far. Take that for what it's worth.

We'll never be able to adjust stats for eras especially considering teammates, goalie equipment, health and ice time etc., but shirley you can see that scoring overall is definitely up and that there exists a legitimate argument that Ovi had a better or at least close to equal goal scoring season in 2008.

Either way it's pretty close, the rest is trolling.

It is close, but one poster who adjusted for scoring levels in all game states separately because of Ovechkin’s massive advantage in powerplay time, and also adjusted for time on ice shows that Matthews has slightly eclipsed Ovechkin’s season. That’s the most accurate adjustment you can really make, but of course there’s no way to account for everything perfectly. Long story short this season compares fairly well to any season in NHL history in the goal scoring department.

 

[Gary Nylund]

It is close, but one poster who adjusted for scoring levels in all game states separately because of Ovechkin’s massive advantage in powerplay time, and also adjusted for time on ice shows that Matthews has slightly eclipsed Ovechkin’s season. That’s the most accurate adjustment you can really make, but of course there’s no way to account for everything perfectly. Long story short this season compares fairly well to any season in NHL history in the goal scoring department.

The bolded is a pretty big factor indeed!

 

[666]

Long story short this season Matthews is having compared fairly well to any season in NHL history in the goal scoring department.

Agreed.