ATD Chat Thread XX

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,157
7,294
Regina, SK
Most memorable thing a prof ever said to me was, "you're so bright that this class should be a triviality to you. You're just incredibly lazy."

This was after nearly a whole semester of witnessing my work habits, attentiveness in class, and attendance, and then working with me personally for 10 minutes while I tried to catch up to the point where I could pass the final. He could see how easy things came to me, but I had dug myself too deep a hole by then.

I passed, but it wasn't pretty. This was math 222 or something like that.

Oh, what could've been. Being 18-19, suddenly having access to easy money, a new computer, the internet, women, etc. And being used to coasting academically and still achieving high grades... It was not a good mix. I'm happy with how my life turned out but I could've applied myself and been more "successful"...
 
  • Like
Reactions: ChiTownPhilly

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
35,287
6,484
South Korea
'Laziness'... not a word that ever describes me. Ever. I get things done. I'm that kid in the front (but on the right side to watch my back) who raises his hand when no else does - lowers it quickly when others do - striking obvious fear or dread in some profs' eyes, but smiles and invites to office chats by other profs.

'Sloppy', 'overeager', 'impulsive' of course, when the gear shift is forward.

'Preoccupied' and 'busy' indeed, as i put too much on my plate.

I am a high-gear, MBTI INTF/INTP... (the F/P one question diff) structured individual. Back in 2011 i lost exactly 50 kg (i measured myself every Sunday before noon for a year; then, when the goal was reached, threw the scale in the trash), losing weight by cutting out all kinds of sugar, simple carbs like my beloved bread, noodles, potatoes. Instead, for one year i ate only meat (mostly salmon, tuna, beef) and non-carb veggies (onions, garlic, bell peppers, hot peppers, purple cabbage, spinach, swiss chard, other veggies all fresh - cook them and kiss vitamin c and enzymes goodbye!). Mushrooms and strawberries were staples (not together, of course, but each as nutritious additives to basic dishes (e.g.., fresh salmon, olive oil, garlic, mushrooms and white onion in a pan slow cooking for brunch... a habit for about a hundred days of the year).

I was not that guy who was "coasting academically", as i was the guy in the library with his head in books (the pre-Internet treasure trove of info; do you 'surf' the 'net? Do you 'deep dive'?).

I won every one of the 9 chess championships i participated in, other than the national finals in Grade 4, and have played epic long games against my dad (who was a mechanical engineer who retired and made tobacco money easily fixing machines in the neighborhood - miss you dad) and against the brother of a grad school classmate at her Catholic home in Gatineau, Quebec late after midnight mass Christmas Eve 1994, everyone else drinking and eating, us at it on the board.

Then the Internet came. Now,... these days... every week... i get my *** handed to me online by plenty of better players worldwide. (The clock often is a detriment, but it is easy to walk into an online chess room of better players.)

Humility is experienced in various ways.

Two decades earlier, I as a teenager realized i was either being punked daily by the New York Times or else their crossword was simply too hard for me. That hurt. I was that kid whose father threw him a puzzle magazine in a hotel room and knew his son wasn't going anywhere for hours (mystery mags were better though).

I now do the NY Times' Wordle daily and am pissed if i don't finish by the third guess.
 
Last edited:

The Macho King

Back* to Back** World Champion
Jun 22, 2011
48,776
29,312
Kucherov needs 7 assists in 5 games to reach 100. Leads the next highest scorer on his team by 51 points.

Dude is a f***ing freak.
 

ImporterExporter

"You're a boring old man"
Jun 18, 2013
18,861
7,895
Oblivion Express
Kucherov needs 7 assists in 5 games to reach 100. Leads the next highest scorer on his team by 51 points.

Dude is a f***ing freak.

I was at the game. Absolutely wild 3rd period. Had to jet to the Pirates game asap afterwards which also saw the home team win in extras vs the Orioles.

Great day to be a Pittsburgh fan.

But yeah, seeing Kuch in person, his vision is vintage Sid. Sees the ice so much better than anyone else on that team.
 

ChiTownPhilly

Not Too Soft
Feb 23, 2010
2,105
1,391
AnyWorld/I'mWelcomeTo
Most memorable thing a prof ever said to me was, "you're so bright that this class should be a triviality to you. You're just incredibly lazy."
Yeah- I. too, was mostly lazy in college. Had moments of intermittent energy- most notable was when it seemed like I was going to get kicked out of the University Honors Program for failure to maintain Honors Program worthy grades. I then posted a couple of Dean's List semesters* and successfully lobbied to keep my neck off the chopping block. [And, fully in character for me at the time, returned to my torpor in the run-up to graduation.]

Never was consistently energetic with things that mattered in life until my mid-20s. Then (to paraphrase Henry V's retort at the end of Henry IV Part 2) "[I was asleep] but being awak'd, I do despise my dream."

One thing about laziness, though- it has a "stall-speed." Someone very close to me- measurably more intelligent than I- received a merit scholarship to a private college, found he could no longer coast, doubled down on prioritizing things other than coursework, lost the scholarship, transferred to a generic junior college, took 3 years to get a 2-year degree (i.e.: never got a Bachelor's Degree, even), and basically never pulled out of that tailspin.

Some mistakes you make- you pay for all your life...

* at my American university, Dean's List could typically be achieved by all As, or all-but-one (with the one being a B). This was decades-and-decades ago, before "grade-inflation" wreaked its worst. For instance, in USA Colleges/Universities- around the time I was born- the letter-grade 'A' was awarded c. 15% of the time. Presently, it's now given 40+% of the time, and is the single most frequently awarded letter-grade.
 
  • Like
Reactions: seventieslord

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
35,287
6,484
South Korea
My dad sometimes thought i lazy i think 'cuz i had an on-off switch, work to leisure. His idea of Sunday fun was gardening, home construction (e.g., an addition, new roof), fishing, hunting or Lions' club activities. He never went a day in bed until his 63-year smoking habit caught up with him.

My idea of Sunday was sleeping, reading and NFL football, feet up. By no means sweating. A day off deserved!
 
Last edited:

ImporterExporter

"You're a boring old man"
Jun 18, 2013
18,861
7,895
Oblivion Express
Most memorable thing a prof ever said to me was, "you're so bright that this class should be a triviality to you. You're just incredibly lazy."

This was after nearly a whole semester of witnessing my work habits, attentiveness in class, and attendance, and then working with me personally for 10 minutes while I tried to catch up to the point where I could pass the final. He could see how easy things came to me, but I had dug myself too deep a hole by then.

I passed, but it wasn't pretty. This was math 222 or something like that.

Oh, what could've been. Being 18-19, suddenly having access to easy money, a new computer, the internet, women, etc. And being used to coasting academically and still achieving high grades... It was not a good mix. I'm happy with how my life turned out but I could've applied myself and been more "successful"...

Success is subjective.

It means something different to almost everyone, though sadly money and possessions have largely taken the lead in terms of what most people consider the measuring stick for success. The older I've gotten, the more I despise trying to quantify that term as it relates to my life or anyone else for that matter. I've spent an inordinate amount of my 20's and 30's (I'm now 40 and the happiest I've ever been, more on that later).

Your story doesn't sound much dissimilar to mine, though I decided to forgo college directly after high school (this was in 2002, not long after 9/11 happened here in the States) and join the Air Force, with college happening thanks to the government paying for my schooling, based on my 4 years of service.

I was in my 2nd semester of school (mind you, I had just done 4 years of military service, which included 5 combat tours between the Middle East and SW Asia regions) when I realized how much I disliked it. I disliked the agendas too many professors had. I disliked the political pandering that I was exposed to, yes, even in the mid to late 2000's. And more than anything, as a 22-23 year old who had some very, very real world experiences, I disliked most of the kids who were also going to school. The petulance, the lack of respect, the whining about x, y, z, etc.

That's not to say I didn't have some engaging and fun professors who made learning a better experience (one of my favorite classes was Historical Geology).

School (basically anything beyond math) came very easy to me. I didn't have to put a ton of effort in to achieve A's and B's and this was an era before we saw high letter grades handed out like government assistance. You actually had to know what the hell you were doing to achieve a good grade in most classes.

Still, I didn't finish my degree while attending school in person. I left after 2 semesters because I was applying to different jobs and ended up getting a solid offer and work without the Bachelor's yet tied to my name. That would come later thanks to online schooling though a 4 year degree has not been critical to my working career. I would have never finished if I had to put my own money up, vs the G.I. Bill which paid for my education and I felt it wasteful to not take advantage of that earned money through my service in the military.

I honestly don't believe college necessary to make a successful life. Those were BS goods shoved down our throats by K-12 educators who made it very clear that if you don't go to college, you will end up being a bum and working blue collar, hard labor jobs, etc. It was and continues to be nothing more than an assembly line for kids to be drowned in debt with degrees that didn't bring them large windfalls of financial stability, while subsequently destroying critical thinking by way of clear cut political agendas but I digress.

I'm 40 years old today and in 2 years will be effectively retired. I met my current girlfriend last summer and beyond happy with life thanks to our chemistry and mutual desires as it pertains to life. We have similar interests in recreation. Our personalities are incredibly tight, along with sense of humor and artistic tastes. 8 months later, we've still never had one argument, one fight. Communication is elite. Compromise is elite. The love is real, for the first time ever.

I've been pretty smart with the money I have earned in life, coupled with selling my house last year at peak market value, has enabled me to set up a very nice foundation to live without working. My GF receives significant monthly disability benefits through her service time in the Air Force, which coupled with my more modest passive income and money saved, is enough to not have to work, barring some sort of significant life event.

So we're going to be moving west into the Rocky Mountain region (Colorado, Utah, Montana) with a target date/timeline of summer 2026. Land is very cheap in certain areas and we're planning on buying up a few acres in multiple states and then setting up a small, permanent house on one of them, while living life largely on the road, traveling, seeing the country, and eventually world, before our time on this planet is finished.

It won't be a glamourous life. It will be simple and fairly frugal in the grand scheme. But it will provide what we feel and see to be happiness. Joy. Mutual love.

So in essence, without delving further into detail, I'd confidently say that our happiness dictates what success is and we're both, to our bones, completely content with that way of thinking.
 

ImporterExporter

"You're a boring old man"
Jun 18, 2013
18,861
7,895
Oblivion Express
Kucherov (137) just passed Guy Lafleur for sole possession of 3rd in the most points by a winger in NHL single season history category.

Only Jagr (149, 1995-96) and Bossy (147, 1981-82) have more.

This after already setting the most assists in a single season by a winger, ever. At 94 and counting now.

He also leads his team in scoring by 51 points.
 

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
35,287
6,484
South Korea
Sub "ever" with "in the modern era" to get the gravity of it. It's relativity.

Guys like Gordie Howe, Andy Bathgate and Aurel Joliat hadn't a chance at this stat (well, they did for a while only, but in less games per season under different era conditions).

It would be cool look at 'most ever' stats in 1967, in 1939, etc.
 

Professor What

Registered User
Sep 16, 2020
2,329
1,975
Gallifrey
Sub "ever" with "in the modern era" to get the gravity of it. It's relativity.

Guys like Gordie Howe, Andy Bathgate and Aurel Joliat hadn't a chance at this stat (well, they did for a while only, but in less games per season under different era conditions).

It would be cool look at 'most ever' stats in 1967, in 1939, etc.
The nerd in me wishes there was a real way to compare seasons across eras. I'd find a Kucherov-Bathgate comparison rather fascinating, for example. I'd also like to have it to shut down the Howe hate that seems to be becoming more common.
 

ImporterExporter

"You're a boring old man"
Jun 18, 2013
18,861
7,895
Oblivion Express
Sub "ever" with "in the modern era" to get the gravity of it. It's relativity.

Guys like Gordie Howe, Andy Bathgate and Aurel Joliat hadn't a chance at this stat (well, they did for a while only, but in less games per season under different era conditions).

It would be cool look at 'most ever' stats in 1967, in 1939, etc.

Games played isn't really a factor comparing say Howe to Kucherov. Howe played his career, the bulk of it during 70 game seasons. During that long stretch he never once hit 50 assists, though he led the league in that stat 3 times, in the early to mid 50's. Adding another 12 games, even 20 wasn't going to see him hit 100 in a single campaign.

It's more to do w/comparing the scoring in each era and adjusting, which is more @Hockey Outsider arena of expertise.

With 4 games left, Kuch sits 8 points from Bossy and 10 from Jagr. Still a very long shot he can crack 150, but 12 points in your last 4, and 32 in the last 16 will put you in position to at least have a crack.

It'll be interesting to see if McDavid plays all these games down the stretch. Sounds like he's pretty banged up.
 

Professor What

Registered User
Sep 16, 2020
2,329
1,975
Gallifrey
Games played isn't really a factor comparing say Howe to Kucherov. Howe played his career, the bulk of it during 70 game seasons. During that long stretch he never once hit 50 assists, though he led the league in that stat 3 times, in the early to mid 50's. Adding another 12 games, even 20 wasn't going to see him hit 100 in a single campaign.

It's more to do w/comparing the scoring in each era and adjusting, which is more @Hockey Outsider arena of expertise.

With 4 games left, Kuch sits 8 points from Bossy and 10 from Jagr. Still a very long shot he can crack 150, but 12 points in your last 4, and 32 in the last 16 will put you in position to at least have a crack.

It'll be interesting to see if McDavid plays all these games down the stretch. Sounds like he's pretty banged up.
Kind of hard for me to imagine that McDavid doesn't play and ends up at 99 assists. You'd have to think that he and the team would want that milestone. What's remarkable to me though is that we're likely looking at two guys pulling it off in the same season after going so long that only three guys had ever done it. And then there's still the chance of Matthews hitting 70 goals. Personally, I want to see all of it happen. It's been a crazy season, and I mean that in a good way.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hockey Stathead

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,157
7,294
Regina, SK
48 X (3.11/2.40) X (82/70) X (1.69/1.54) = 80

that's what VI means by "different era conditions". Yeah, 80 isn't 100, but it's a hell of a lot different from merely 48 (which is Gordie Howe's career assist high from 1953-54).

Those three adjustments at least put him on a reasonably equal ground statistically, then consider that his total was 30% higher than 2nd place and 45% higher than 5th. Kucherov, by comparison, is 0% higher than 2nd place (as he is, himself, 2nd place this season), and 35% ahead of 5th. I'm not staking a position as to what is more impressive or "better", but there are obvious things to consider when comparing Kucherov to RWs of the past, which is all VI was trying to say.
 
Last edited:

Hockey Outsider

Registered User
Jan 16, 2005
9,155
14,477
Success is subjective.

It means something different to almost everyone, though sadly money and possessions have largely taken the lead in terms of what most people consider the measuring stick for success. The older I've gotten, the more I despise trying to quantify that term as it relates to my life or anyone else for that matter. I've spent an inordinate amount of my 20's and 30's (I'm now 40 and the happiest I've ever been, more on that later).

Your story doesn't sound much dissimilar to mine, though I decided to forgo college directly after high school (this was in 2002, not long after 9/11 happened here in the States) and join the Air Force, with college happening thanks to the government paying for my schooling, based on my 4 years of service.

I was in my 2nd semester of school (mind you, I had just done 4 years of military service, which included 5 combat tours between the Middle East and SW Asia regions) when I realized how much I disliked it. I disliked the agendas too many professors had. I disliked the political pandering that I was exposed to, yes, even in the mid to late 2000's. And more than anything, as a 22-23 year old who had some very, very real world experiences, I disliked most of the kids who were also going to school. The petulance, the lack of respect, the whining about x, y, z, etc.

That's not to say I didn't have some engaging and fun professors who made learning a better experience (one of my favorite classes was Historical Geology).

School (basically anything beyond math) came very easy to me. I didn't have to put a ton of effort in to achieve A's and B's and this was an era before we saw high letter grades handed out like government assistance. You actually had to know what the hell you were doing to achieve a good grade in most classes.

Still, I didn't finish my degree while attending school in person. I left after 2 semesters because I was applying to different jobs and ended up getting a solid offer and work without the Bachelor's yet tied to my name. That would come later thanks to online schooling though a 4 year degree has not been critical to my working career. I would have never finished if I had to put my own money up, vs the G.I. Bill which paid for my education and I felt it wasteful to not take advantage of that earned money through my service in the military.

I honestly don't believe college necessary to make a successful life. Those were BS goods shoved down our throats by K-12 educators who made it very clear that if you don't go to college, you will end up being a bum and working blue collar, hard labor jobs, etc. It was and continues to be nothing more than an assembly line for kids to be drowned in debt with degrees that didn't bring them large windfalls of financial stability, while subsequently destroying critical thinking by way of clear cut political agendas but I digress.

I'm 40 years old today and in 2 years will be effectively retired. I met my current girlfriend last summer and beyond happy with life thanks to our chemistry and mutual desires as it pertains to life. We have similar interests in recreation. Our personalities are incredibly tight, along with sense of humor and artistic tastes. 8 months later, we've still never had one argument, one fight. Communication is elite. Compromise is elite. The love is real, for the first time ever.

I've been pretty smart with the money I have earned in life, coupled with selling my house last year at peak market value, has enabled me to set up a very nice foundation to live without working. My GF receives significant monthly disability benefits through her service time in the Air Force, which coupled with my more modest passive income and money saved, is enough to not have to work, barring some sort of significant life event.

So we're going to be moving west into the Rocky Mountain region (Colorado, Utah, Montana) with a target date/timeline of summer 2026. Land is very cheap in certain areas and we're planning on buying up a few acres in multiple states and then setting up a small, permanent house on one of them, while living life largely on the road, traveling, seeing the country, and eventually world, before our time on this planet is finished.

It won't be a glamourous life. It will be simple and fairly frugal in the grand scheme. But it will provide what we feel and see to be happiness. Joy. Mutual love.

So in essence, without delving further into detail, I'd confidently say that our happiness dictates what success is and we're both, to our bones, completely content with that way of thinking.
Are you familiar with the "FIRE" movement (financial independence, retire early)?
 
  • Like
Reactions: ImporterExporter

The Macho King

Back* to Back** World Champion
Jun 22, 2011
48,776
29,312
The nerd in me wishes there was a real way to compare seasons across eras. I'd find a Kucherov-Bathgate comparison rather fascinating, for example. I'd also like to have it to shut down the Howe hate that seems to be becoming more common.
I think Kucherov has separated from Bathgate a decent bit at this point. Especially when you factor in postseason.
 

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
35,287
6,484
South Korea
Freedom 55?

I am two weeks away from that birthday, am doing what i love (teaching,... pick my own texts, design my own lessons, feed the brain that is diagnosed: INTP/INFP, by the Meyers-Briggs type indicator).

I have seen my dad's friend drop dead after their first year of retirement, after deciding to suddenly unpreparedly start skiing, and from vacationing in Mexico. My dad inhaled a deep breath of cigarette smoke and said "They didn't know what to do." (8 years later my dad died of lung cancer, after 61 years of smoking, at age almost 77)
 

jigglysquishy

Registered User
Jun 20, 2011
7,624
7,277
Regina, Saskatchewan
There's the opposite side too.

My grandma turns 100 this year and is still fairly active. She was traveling internationally until 90 and within Canada until 95. She retired back in the 1980s.

She's still financially independent too.

Some people can't handle retirement. That's true. But most people can.
 

ImporterExporter

"You're a boring old man"
Jun 18, 2013
18,861
7,895
Oblivion Express
Are you familiar with the "FIRE" movement (financial independence, retire early)?

I've read on it a bit but wouldn't say I'm any sort of expert. I do have a good friend who's more or less ran that path since I've known him dating back to 2008 and he's a few years older than me and set to stop working at 50 (he's 45 now) and I've definitely leaned on him for some advice, along with his personal financial advisor.
 

The Macho King

Back* to Back** World Champion
Jun 22, 2011
48,776
29,312
I have a friend I went to law school with. He got on the FIRE train and is trying to retire in like 4 more years.

I don't buy it. He's spending his 30s and early 40s not living. No kids, no vacations, bills 2400 hours+ a year. He is sacrificing his prime years on work instead of life.
 

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
35,287
6,484
South Korea
I spent a month in Thailand in '09 (before smartphones) and since i was at age 40 i felt the HUGE GULF in age between me and the vast majority of foreigners, between the many early twentysomethings of backpacker, military and gap year crowd,... and the many late fifties-plus guys retiring overseas, marrying locals more than half their age or spending their savings on Vegas-like party vacays. (I spent most of my time in Chiang Mai and Hua Hin, missing all but one of the islands.)
 

ImporterExporter

"You're a boring old man"
Jun 18, 2013
18,861
7,895
Oblivion Express
48 X (3.11/2.40) X (82/70) X (1.69/1.54) = 80

that's what VI means by "different era conditions". Yeah, 80 isn't 100, but it's a hell of a lot different from merely 48 (which is Gordie Howe's career assist high from 1953-54).

Those three adjustments at least put him on a reasonably equal ground statistically, then consider that his total was 30% higher than 2nd place and 45% higher than 5th. Kucherov, by comparison, is 0% higher than 2nd place (as he is, himself, 2nd place this season), and 35% ahead of 5th. I'm not staking a position as to what is more impressive or "better", but there are obvious things to consider when comparing Kucherov to RWs of the past, which is all VI was trying to say.

I completely understand what Van is trying to say. He/you are right. There are differences between the NHL now and 75 years ago. And there is plenty of variance before, and in between this timeline.

I just don't see any legitimate way to compare eras that would satisfy everyone. Crunching numbers is great and it serves as a barometer, but beyond that, we're limited to speculation and friendly discourse.

Still, some of the difference that would need to be hashed out.

Also, anyone feel free to correct mathematical errors. I tried to ensure complete accuracy, though I was always fond of writing over numbers.


1. Howe played, during his prime, on a line with 2 fellow HOF players, in Lindsay and Abel. He had, arguably, the games best offensive dman of that era (depending on how you view Harvey's contributions in Montreal), and fellow HOF Red Kelly driving the transition from the back. That is a very important caveat that benefits a lot of 06 era players more than it does modern counterparts. The league and talent was more concentrated. Yes, this means you play better opponents more often than today's players, but the talent surrounding a singular player like Howe, was greater to aid in compiling stats.

2. The top 3 assists totals in 53-54 came from wingers (Howe 48, Olmstead 37, Lindsay 36). Maurice Richard had the next highest total among RW w/30. Without looking, I'd wager it's been a really long time since the top 3 players in assists over a season, were wingers.


3. Howe's totals, when he led the league weren't even the best marks of the decade let alone era. If we look at the 1950's (Howe's prime) his best marks were 48, 46, 46, 45, 45. Lindsay had more, twice, including a league record 55 in 1949-50. Olmstead's 56 was the most of any F during the 1950's.

4. Travel and length of schedule are vastly different. Tampa Bay is in an awful geographic location as it pertains to playing the rest of the league. Not only are the schedules more grueling today, there is significantly more travel involved, especially for a team that is based in central Florida.

5. Kucherov's 98 assists are 28 more than the next closest winger (LW) right now (Panarin w/70). A 40% gap. The gap widens to 3rd place, which is Mikko Rantanen at 62, or a 58% gap. So in comparing strictly wingers, Kucherov is extremely impressive. Him running neck and neck with a prime McDavid (C) as a 30 year old seems equally impressive given the offensive credentials of McD who, based on the often cited VsX tables, is nearly on Howe's level over 7 years and above all of Howe's peers of the 50's/60's.

6. Kucherov has 98 assists as of 04/11. The next closest teammate is Hedman w/63, a 56% difference. Edit, this is a correction of my original post that had forget to include Dmen in my initial stat crunch, thus forgetting that Hedman does in fact play for the Lightning. Moreover, I'm not sure if someone like @Hockey Outsider would already have this type of stat worked up but it would be neat to see, say the top 100 % gaps between #1 and #2 on a team in terms of goals, assists, points, etc.

7. There is now a 53 point gap from Kucherov (141) to the next closest Lightning player (Brayden Point, 88) in overall points which = 60% difference. The gap to 3rd is 64 = 83%. Howe, again, quick glance, seems to have never had more than a 25 point advantage vs the #2 scorer (1950-51) on the Wings. Maybe over 82 games and adjusted for scoring fluctuations, you'd see a similar gap but Kucherov is shouldering an immense scoring share, being 60% higher than the #2 scorer on Tampa.

8. What about scoring averages across the league?



2023-24 - Goals Per Game = 3.11

Yes, this is a larger # than we're accustomed to recently, but last year, scoring was slightly higher and similar to the output coming out of the lockout in 05-06.

From 1970-71 through 1995-96 there were exactly TWO seasons with fewer goals scored per game than this year's 3.11. 1971-72 and 1994-95.

  • Jagr's 149 (most points ever by a winger) over 82 games is probably the best comparison as the league scoring averages are nearly identical (95-96 is 3.14 vs 3.11 today) and Kucherov's ES/PP splits are also nearly spot on to Jagr's. I don't think Kucherov will score 10+ points in the final 4 games but crazier things have happened.

  • Mike Bossy's massive 1981-82 (147 points) was done in a league that featured the highest goals per game average post WWII at just over 4. That's nearly a goal a game more than today. Does adjusting for era keep him above Kucherov's current season? Can't imagine so. Especially when you factor that was smack dab in the middle of the Islander dynasty and Bossy was skating with Trottier and Potvin on the regular.

  • Guy Lafleur played through his prime in the higher scoring expansion era of the 70's, which featured 80 game seasons with numerous low budget teams to beat up on. His maximum output on a superteam was 136 points/80 assists over 80 games. Kucherov has eclipsed both those totals in 3 fewer games, on a much less talented team, in a league that doesn't feature as much scoring on average.

Below (graphics) you can see some differences between LW and RW in terms of assists.

  • LW has peaked over the last few seasons. The top 4 marks all time have happened over the last 3 years w/6 of the top 10 occurring in the last half decade. 11 of the top 20 assist seasons have happened since 2018-19. This is not a mirror image of RW figures (see next).

  • Kucherov's brilliance has knocked down legendary players who both played during higher scoring periods (goals per game league average + 80 and 82 game seasons), and featured on much better rosters relative to the 2023-24 Tampa Bay Lightning. He owns 3 of the top 4 marks all time, with all the other players in the top 10 being from the 1970's, early 80's, early to mid 90's. Blake Wheeler is the closest RW post lockout (04-05) with 71 apples a far cry from 96 and counting.

  • The last chart is most points all time by a 30 year old player. Kucherov is 3rd with a real shot at 2nd with only Lemieux unreachable. This is not position restricted either.

1712778406693.png


1712778496851.png



stats.JPG



9. Save percentages have plummeted post covid, though they are still significantly better than what we see from the mid 1970's through the mid 1990's.
The quality of goal tending seems to be trending in the wrong direction today, however, most of the players Kucherov has passed enjoyed more advantageous environments for scoring.

10. How do we quantify pre-consolidation (before 1927) scoring? Would Gretzky really have the all time scoring records if you expand Russell Bowie, Cyclone Taylor, Lalonde, etc over 82 games and longer careers? Can you even compare the era's given the vast differences in rules alone?

To be clear, this isn't meant to be a knock on the players I've listed at one point or another in the above material. Far from it. I enjoy the research and discourse.

This is more to do with presenting a case as to why people are underselling Kucherov's season as it relates to his place on a historical map among wingers.

He's almost surely going to finish 2nd in the Hart voting to Mac if you rely on the betting markets to be a predictor. It's pointless to debate that one way or another, though I've already laid out the reasons why I think it would be a mistake and more to do with giving Mac the nod as he's repeatedly finished close to the top, though never reaching the pinnacle. I don't have a problem with it, regardless of how the points race finishes (it'll be a marginal win in either direction). I simply think the Avs are a better team overall and the Lightning would be more handicapped if you took away each star player. In a close race such as this, that's my personal tiebreaker.

Still, he's set another mark for assists among wingers. He's now 9 clear of Jagr's (was 23 at the time) best mark who's 2nd. And he's 10 points behind Jagr's point total w/4 games yet to go.

He's eclipsed a prime, 25 year old Guy Lafleur's best points mark (1976-77), in fewer games, in a lower scoring environment, with fewer penalties being called today vs then. And Lafleur was playing for arguably the greatest hockey team of all time.

That certainly doesn't mean he's reached their level on a career scale. I just find some of the statistical achievements very significant, across any era.
 
Last edited:

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad