ATD Chat Thread XX

[Transplanted Caper]

I am someone who is incredibly ambivalent to award voting. Maybe it's my aged cynicism, but I can't get all that worked up about what millionaire wins what trophy. So, in that context, I am genuinely curious how the Hart and Lindsay voting goes and whether writers value different things than players. It has been an incredible year for a lot of players and how it all shakes out will be interesting,

 

[Habsfan18]

1,000th career assist for Sid tonight on the OT winner. 3 point night. One of the best age 36 seasons ever. Just incredible.

He won’t win it, but he deserves some Hart votes. I’ve said it before, but it’s been an honour watching his entire career. We’ve been so lucky to watch Sid and Ovie do their thing.

If you had to ask me to choose one player from throughout history to build a franchise from scratch with, it just might be Sid. Not 100% certain on that, but what I am certain of is that the list of players I’d confidently choose over him is incredibly small. The “kid” is the complete package. Pretty much everything you’d want in a player.

 

[ImporterExporter]

What a night for Crosby.

3 points to pass Esposito for sole possession of 10th on the all time scoring list.

2 assists, including the game winner in OT, to reach 1000 for his career, just the 14th player ever to do it.

The Penguins were dead a few weeks ago. They've gone 7-0-3 over their past 10 and now control their destiny to get in with 3 games left to play. In that span Sid has 17 points.

https://x.com/SNstats/status/1778601708068671610

 

[ImporterExporter]

And in other news, Kucherov with 2 more helpers tonight, upping his already standing record to 98 w/141 points overall. Has 3 games left.

Auston Matthews scores his 67th and 68th goals of the year, reaching the highest total since Lemieux had 69 in 1995-96, though he scored those 69 in just 70 games, at 30 years old. Has 3 games left.

 

[seventieslord]

What a night for Crosby.

3 points to pass Esposito for sole possession of 10th on the all time scoring list.

2 assists, including the game winner in OT, to reach 1000 for his career, just the 14th player ever to do it.

The Penguins were dead a few weeks ago. They've gone 7-0-3 over their past 10 and now control their destiny to get in with 3 games left to play. In that span Sid has 17 points.

https://x.com/SNstats/status/1778601708068671610

I believe that's 20 in the last 10.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Any theories on why we're seeing these top level seasons again even though average goals per game is not up THAT much? The distribution through the lineup has to be very lopsided I think

 

[The Macho King]

Any theories on why we're seeing these top level seasons again even though average goals per game is not up THAT much? The distribution through the lineup has to be very lopsided I think

PP% is up, which is going to favor top line players. There have been some theories that teams are deploying 5 man units more, so top players are also playing with top end puck moving Dmen (which was an exception outside of guys like Coffey in the past). Expansion, tighter calling against certain obstruction-type penalties (slashing around the hands, etc.) has allowed skill players more room against scrubs. Analytics probably has allowed more talented players to pick ideal shooting locations/spots to shoot for, which may have helped?

But it's all theoretical. This season seems like more of an outlier than previous. Outside of McDavid last year, the scoring race feels pretty much where you would expect it to be with this level of scoring. Even now, you take out the top 3 and scoring looks about what you would expect.

Probably just some weird anomaly shit.

 

[BraveCanadian]

I was saying in another thread I think it is a combination of dilution and gentrification, goaltender equipment changing, PPs obviously like you say.. but I think a big one is the lack of physicality so there are a lot more guys driving or setting up shop in the slot. A lot of east-west play at the net front that didn't used to happen so much because you'd get killed by the defensemen back in the day. That also allows smaller more mobile defense like you say.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Panarin is becoming an outlier too. His 117 points is the most of any 3rd place finisher since Sakic in 1996. And he's actually in 4th.

 

[VanIslander]

It's 1980's total points headlines all over again.

 

[BraveCanadian]

It's 1980's total points headlines all over again.

League is trash and full of plumbers again I guess

 

[VanIslander]

After the last lockout, the new rules favored smaller, mobile d, reducing checking and allowing more individualistic stretch passes.

League is trash and full of plumbers again I guess

No. High flying 5-4 games, weak defenses, weak goaltending, shooting pigs in a barrel.

Plumbers was the late 1990s Dead Puck Era and early 70s expansion.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Most points ever by a 3rd place finisher

1. Yzerman 1989 - 155
2. Oates 1993 - 142
3. Stastny 1982 - 139
4. Coffey 1986 - 138
5. Nilsson 1981 - 131
5. Savard 1988 - 131
7. Hawercuk 1985 - 130
7. McDavid 2024- 130+
9. Lafleur 1979 - 129

Most points by a 4th place finisher

1. Nicholls 1989 - 150
2. Yzerman 1993 - 137
3. Maruk 1982 - 136
4. Kurri 1986 - 131
5. Bossy 1979 - 126
5. Dionne 1985 - 126
7. Lemieux 1990 - 123
8. Hawerchuk 1988 - 121
9. Lafleur 1975 - 119
9.Bossy 1981 - 119
9. Francis 1996 - 119
12. Panarin 2024 - 117+

Edit:
2nd place for interest sake

1. Gretzky 1989 - 168
2. Gretzky 1988 - 149
2. Jagr 1996 - 149
4. LaFontaine 1993 - 148
5. Bossy 1982 - 147
6. Lemieux 1986 - 141
7. Orr 1971 - 139
8. Dionne 1980 - 137
8. MacKinnon 2024 - 137+
10. Dionne 1981 - 135
10. Kurri 1985 - 135

 

[ImporterExporter]

It's 1980's total points headlines all over again

We're not remotely close to that level of absurdity yet.

 

[VanIslander]

205 points for Gretzky in 1984 (40 years ago) ...

126 for the next best (friggin' Coffey who soft-feeded pucks to dazzling Gretz!).

Nowadays pales ... Kuch, Mac, Mc... the gap between them and others is like 17 points.

23-year-old Stevie Y led the league in shots and even-strength goals, his 155 points behind Gretz & Mario, a clear gap between the superstars and everyone else.

It is not about RAW totals, but about the gulf between them and their contemporaries.

 

[Professor What]

What do you guys think about the report of the Coyotes moving to Utah?

 

[sr edler]

This is what happens when you have an over-bloated league built largely around entertainment "franchises" and not real sports clubs. The league essentially money laundering the team goes to show who the real employer is here as well. These players aren't employed by the Coyotes they're employed by Bettman Inc.

It's not just a hockey or NHL thing though. Various sports leagues or entities around the world just comes with different type of setups.

 

[VanIslander]

The ATD playoffs seems somewhat like going to yoga class, stretching like crazy, smiling and going home satisfied... then returning to judge who did it almost as good as you did?

 

[BraveCanadian]

What do you guys think about the report of the Coyotes moving to Utah?

I think the guy getting paid a billion dollars for a franchise that has done nothing but lose money during its entire run and that has no where to play is the end of a hugely successful con.

Giving him 5 more years to try and lobby for some more tax money to build some more rich people toys is crazy. Just give up.

The NHL is just propping up franchise values with this deal and are apparently going to subsidize the expense with another expansion? Oy vey..

 

[VanIslander]

Texas needs a 3rd team.

 

[Professor What]

This might not be the best place to ask this, but I'm not sure what would be, and I don't want to hijack a thread to ask it. I've been trying to find the original VsX post, but the links that I've found are down. Basically, what I'm trying to figure out is when there are exceptions to the second place scorer, and why and what those exceptions are. If anyone can help me out, I'd appreciate it.

 

[jigglysquishy]

With Panarin hitting 120 points this is just the 9th time in NHL history 4 players have hit 120 points in the same season.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

This might not be the best place to ask this, but I'm not sure what would be, and I don't want to hijack a thread to ask it. I've been trying to find the original VsX post, but the links that I've found are down. Basically, what I'm trying to figure out is when there are exceptions to the second place scorer, and why and what those exceptions are. If anyone can help me out, I'd appreciate it.

I think this is the thread you're looking for - Post-consolidation VsX Benchmarks

 

[Professor What]

I think this is the thread you're looking for - Post-consolidation VsX Benchmarks

Thank you. That was what I'm looking for.

So, to make sure I'm understanding this since this looks like an exception year, if the season ended right now -- Kucherov 142, MacKinnon 138, McDavid 131, Panarin 120, Pastrnak 109 -- Panarin in 4th would be the benchmark scorer, right? If I'm understanding things correctly, he fits the Bathgate rule.

I've understood the basic concept of VsX for a while, but I've never really dug into it, and I want to rectify that.

 

[Professor What]

The Oilers are doing X-rated things to the Sharks right now. And we've got an NHL goalie debut in Georgi Romanov.

Edit: And now we've got #100 for McDavid.