ATD 2018 Lineup Advice Thread

[TheDevilMadeMe]

At the ATD level, I would say leadership is a weakness for your team. Not one of your players would even be in the discussion to wear a letter on a lot of other teams.

I do think the leadership on his team is weaker than average, but we have to begrudgingly admit that Toews is a passable ATD captain and would be at least an A on almost any other team, right?

 

[Dreakmur]

Like I posted earlier 50 years of captains, 57 years of assistant captains. Datsyuk wearing the C in Olympics and WC. Jagr wearing C in Olympics and WC. Hawerchuk, Blake, McDonald and Robitaille all wore the C during World Championship.

I don't know how that's weakness. Toews has been one of the best Captains of his era. I think because he's present day you're not giving him near enough credit for the leader he is. If a team has 3 guys that are better leaders than Toews then kudos to them.

Toews is by far your best leader, and he would be a marginal "C" on most teams. You have to look at all the players drafted. Yeah, Jagr has worn the C in a few places, but was he ever successful there? Datsyuk wore the C for Russian Olympic teams. How did those teams do under his leadership?

 

[Dreakmur]

I do think the leadership on his team is weaker than average, but we have to begrudgingly admit that Toews is a passable ATD captain and would be at least an A on almost any other team, right?

Not on our team, that's fore sure. Jarome Iginla doesn't even have a letter...

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Not on our team, that's fore sure. Jarome Iginla doesn't even have a letter...

I'd want to give Toews a letter over Iginla. Probably over Mantha too. I mean, Toews' leadership is part of his legend.

 

[Dreakmur]

I'd want to give Toews a letter over Iginla. Probably over Mantha too. I mean, Toews' leadership is part of his legend.

Maybe I just hate Toews because he has been so over-rated for so long....

 

[jarek]

Maybe I just hate Toews because he has been so over-rated for so long....

His leadership is undeniable. I thought the gesture was a little pathetic but it does say something when Crosby went and asked him for permission to be the captain for the national team.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Maybe I just hate Toews because he has been so over-rated for so long....

Haha, this. I don't hate the guy but his "legend" is vastly over hyped. I'd take Koptiar and even Bergeron over him 6 days a week and twice on Sunday, in the ATD or real life.

 

[ImporterExporter]

His leadership is undeniable. I thought the gesture was a little pathetic but it does say something when Crosby went and asked him for permission to be the captain for the national team.

People look at this as some massive conspiracy against Toews or somehow anything other than Sid being respectful of the process and that Toews (at the time) had more SC wins. When he asked, it was before the 2014 OG's. Crosby has worn a letter for Canada since he was 22 I believe (2010 Olympics). He's been a C over Toews in every tournament they've both attended AFAIK. Team Canada isn't going to give the C to a player less deserving for the ridiculous reasons I've seen pop up around here and the web.

Toews is a great captain. He and Sid are the gold standard IMO today. But JT's not some mythical creature in that regard.

 

[jarek]

Just had a thought about Nels Stewart. The majority of his value seems like it would be wrecking havoc in front of the net on the PP. What about putting him on the wing with Kennedy? I'm not really sure if Stewart ever played much wing at all, but even if IE loses a bit of ES value with Stewart on the wing, I don't even think it really amounts to much of a loss. Kennedy is just a really great player for Stewart to play with.

 

[ResilientBeast]

Maybe I just hate Toews because he has been so over-rated for so long....

Top 100 all time

Look at this group of 5 of the best 100 players of all time

 

[ImporterExporter]

Just had a thought about Nels Stewart. The majority of his value seems like it would be wrecking havoc in front of the net on the PP. What about putting him on the wing with Kennedy? I'm not really sure if Stewart ever played much wing at all, but even if IE loses a bit of ES value with Stewart on the wing, I don't even think it really amounts to much of a loss. Kennedy is just a really great player for Stewart to play with.

Here's my findings so far from dishing the dirt....

Nels Stewart played LW through the entire 1927-28 season with Hooley Smith playing center. Got at least a dozen game reports from that season all showing Nels to the left of Smith. He scored 27 goals that season which is the 3rd highest total of his career. We'll see if he has anymore showings on the wing as I go further into his career.

Edit: Halfway through the 28-29 season and Stewart is still on the wing with Smith at C. He's certainly seems to be racking up enough games and production to be considered C/LW in the ATD.

Stewart back to centre on Feb 1 1929.

Stewart back to wing on Feb 20 1929

Stewart on wing Nov 19 1930 Montreal Gazette

 

[Dreakmur]

Top 100 all time

Look at this group of 5 of the best 100 players of all time

Is that an argument for or against him being over-rated?

 

[ResilientBeast]

Is that an argument for or against him being over-rated?

He is most certainly overrated I just enjoy that picture and the implications given how overrated he is

 

[ImporterExporter]

Well he looks VERY tall haha. Obviously, because he's closer to the camera, but poor Doc Emrick is so damn short.

 

[jarek]

The question I have to ask about Toews: is he actually overrated, or are we just sick of hearing about how great a leader/winner he is? He's still a really great player.

 

[ResilientBeast]

The question I have to ask about Toews: is he actually overrated, or are we just sick of hearing about how great a leader/winner he is? He's still a really great player.

AST: 2, 3, 7, 7, 7, 8, 8
Hart: 4, 6, 9, 10
Selke: 1, 2, 2, 3, 4, 5
1x Top 10 in goals
3 Stanley Cups
1 Conn Smyth
VsX: 72.7

vs

AST: 3, 6, 6, 8
Hart: 8, 8
Selke: 1, 2, 3, 4, 9, 9
3x Top 10 in assists
2 Stanley Cups
2x Point leader in playoffs
VsX: 76.9

His record is pretty great but is enough for him to be a top 100 player of all time especially compared to his contemporaries

Toews, Kopitar, undrafted

 

[Dreakmur]

The question I have to ask about Toews: is he actually overrated, or are we just sick of hearing about how great a leader/winner he is? He's still a really great player.

Nah, he's over-rated. Good but not great offensively. Good but not great defensively. Leadership, he's been the ling-time captain of a modern day dynasty.

 

[jarek]

Well I would never in a million years call Toews a top-100 player. Unless he somehow has a significant offensive resurgence in his age 30+ seasons, I don't think he'll even come close. I just don't like that the pendulum might be swinging too far in the other direction.

He is an absolutely legit ATD captain here, and would be a contender for said captaincy on many teams.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

AST: 2, 3, 7, 7, 7, 8, 8
Hart: 4, 6, 9, 10
Selke: 1, 2, 2, 3, 4, 5
1x Top 10 in goals
3 Stanley Cups
1 Conn Smyth
VsX: 72.7

vs

AST: 3, 6, 6, 8
Hart: 8, 8
Selke: 1, 2, 3, 4, 9, 9
3x Top 10 in assists
2 Stanley Cups
2x Point leader in playoffs
VsX: 76.9


His record is pretty great but is enough for him to be a top 100 player of all time especially compared to his contemporaries

Toews, Kopitar, undrafted

Posts like this are a lot worse than offhandedly mentioning an undrafted by name in the draft thread.

Please remove all information about the undrafted player

 

[Dreakmur]

Well I would never in a million years call Toews a top-100 player. Unless he somehow has a significant offensive resurgence in his age 30+ seasons, I don't think he'll even come close. I just don't like that the pendulum might be swinging too far in the other direction.

He is an absolutely legit ATD captain here, and would be a contender for said captaincy on many teams.

Maybe I just want my captain to be a good player, and in the ATD, Toews is a 3rd or 4th liner.

 

[jarek]

Maybe I just want my captain to be a good player, and in the ATD, Toews is a 3rd or 4th liner.

In a draft this size, yes.

 

[TorontoTrades]

Nah, he's over-rated. Good but not great offensively. Good but not great defensively. Leadership, he's been the ling-time captain of a modern day dynasty.

Top 6 in Selke votes for 8 years straight.

Six seasons with 28 goals or more and 10 straight years scoring 21 or more year goals. 110 points in 128 playoff games.

I think you're not giving him enough credit for what he's done over the last decade.


He's my 3rd line center who can anchor a shut down line capable of matching top lines. While still being able to provide secondary scoring.

 

[ResilientBeast]

Top 6 in Selke votes for 8 years straight.

Six seasons with 28 goals or more and 10 straight years scoring 21 or more year goals. 110 points in 128 playoff games.

I think you're not giving him enough credit for what he's done over the last decade.


He's my 3rd line center who can anchor a shut down line capable of matching top lines. While still being able to provide secondary scoring.

Toews has never struck me as a shutdown center

 

[jarek]

Toews has never struck me as a shutdown center

Who is? Zetterberg did that job on Crosby in Detroit's recent cup win, and I guess Bergeron was always that way. Other than them... ?

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Toews has never struck me as a shutdown center

He was Team Canada's 1st choice as shutdown center in more than one best-on-best tournament. (At least once, Bergeron was used as a wing on Crosby's line).