ATD 11 sign-up notice and call for administrators

[God Bless Canada]

i smell a thunder bay / kenora rivalry brewing ... (though i don't really want to run into this gm tandem in the draft - yikes)

Agreed on both front.

I must say, though, I was hoping to see the Nunavut Tootoos in ATD 11.

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

Agreed on both front.

I must say, though, I was hoping to see the Nunavut Tootoos in ATD 11.

You still haven't named your team...

 

[EagleBelfour]

Do we have an official date for this thing? Next Saturday would be ideal in my opinion.

 

[arrbez]

Do we have an administrator?

 

[EagleBelfour]

Do we have an administrator?

Perhaps that's the greatest question. If NO one and I mean ABSOLUTELY NO one wants to administer, I guess I can do it for the first couple of rounds, but I know how committed you have to be and how time consuming running the draft is and I can guarantee I'll be able to run it the whole time.

 

[VanIslander]

Do we have an official date for this thing? Next Saturday would be ideal in my opinion.

Saturday the 28th? Works for me.

We'd need a deadline to join (Tuesday?), then a draft order set (Wednesday? spits has a great method he used last time), then a couple of days to set strategy, talk to co-GMs, make trades (for those who didn't vow not to), etcetera.

And a 12 hour clock? Or 24 for the first round? (I personally always find the second round takes longer than the first to decide)

What do the others think?

 

[arrbez]

Perhaps that's the greatest question. If NO one and I mean ABSOLUTELY NO one wants to administer, I guess I can do it for the first couple of rounds, but I know how committed you have to be and how time consuming running the draft is and I can guarantee I'll be able to run it the whole time.

I'm pretty much in the same boat. I'll help out if needed, but I generally go large swaths of the day without internet access at work, so I won't be as effective as previous people running it.

 

[Canadiens Fan]

I'm pretty much in the same boat. I'll help out if needed, but I generally go large swaths of the day without internet access at work, so I won't be as effective as previous people running it.

So how does the draft work ?? The reason I ask is that next Saturday is a day where I'm at a memorabilia show all day in Montreal and then at the game that night ??

 

[VanIslander]

So how does the draft work ?? The reason I ask is that next Saturday is a day where I'm at a memorabilia show all day in Montreal and then at the game that night ??

You will likely know by Wednesday the draft order, and if you pick near the top of the round then you could leave a shortlist via PM with whomever is the administrator.

 

[seventieslord]

We should probably take a look at how the divisions are drawn up. I see three potential ways to do it - we should easily be able to vote on this as a group and determine what the most preferred method.

1. The same way as always - look at the city/town names being used by the GMs and group them geographically.
Upside: Can foster rivalries.
Downside: Prone to manipulation. Someone can see a division they perceive as "weak" and pick a city name that ensures they'll get into that division, or, someone (like myself) who just wants to get out there and have some new opponents can do the same thing. In other words, this makes it easy for someone to "pick" their division.

2. Completely random.
Upside: No one has any say in what division they get into. Completely new matchups for almost all GMs.
Downside: Could inadvertently result in stacking of divisions or the opposite, throwing three noobs into one division. Prone to corruption by those making the divisions but I doubt that's a real concern for anyone.

3. "adjusted" randomness. Separate the teams into two categories: those who traditionally have success, and those who traditionally don't (or are new). Then draw the divisions randomly, making sure there are equal proportions of each category in each division. This will of course be done privately.
Upside: All the benefits of #2 without the downsides of #1 or #2.
Downside: May be perceived by some as "too much work"

Shall we vote?

 

[nik jr]

in ATD 8 (i think it was #8), BM67 drew up the divisions by draft pick.
top 4 picks were in different divisions.

an attempt to balance divisions.

 

[seventieslord]

in ATD 8 (i think it was #8), BM67 drew up the divisions by draft pick.
top 4 picks were in different divisions.

an attempt to balance divisions.

That is a very good step towards fostering randomness and parity.

 

[God Bless Canada]

I like the "determine divisions by draft order" system that was used in ATD's 6 and 8. But we had this discussion prior to last draft, and the number of people who wanted it by geography was pretty overwhelming.

No matter what system we use, there's going to be a stacked division (The Group of Death) and there's going to be a weaker division.

 

[vancityluongo]

I pushed the geographical divisions a ton last time, IIRC. I'm in favour of the divisions by draft order this time around, I don't want to play the same guys again.

I agree with GBC that no matter what, there will still be a weak(er) division and a strong(er) division, unless someone handpicks who goes into what division (and that would be dumb, IMO).

 

[seventieslord]

I pushed the geographical divisions a ton last time, IIRC. I'm in favour of the divisions by draft order this time around, I don't want to play the same guys again.

I agree with GBC that no matter what, there will still be a weak(er) division and a strong(er) division, unless someone handpicks who goes into what division (and that would be dumb, IMO).

That's why method 3 makes a lot of sense.

Using draft order is a great start and it has the exact same upsides and downsides as method 2. It is completely random, but can also result in very strong or weak divisions due to that randomness. (it's worth noting that method 1, geographical slotting, suffers from that same weakness, only exacerbated by the fact that it can be exploited by those who choose to do so)

 

[EagleBelfour]

Saturday the 28th? Works for me.

We'd need a deadline to join (Tuesday?), then a draft order set (Wednesday? spits has a great method he used last time), then a couple of days to set strategy, talk to co-GMs, make trades (for those who didn't vow not to), etcetera.

And a 12 hour clock? Or 24 for the first round? (I personally always find the second round takes longer than the first to decide)

What do the others think?

Tuesday is the perfect deadline date

Wednesday is perfect for the draft order

As always, I would HATE to see someone being skipped in the first two rounds. What I would do:

1st round = 24 hours
2nd round = 18 hours
3rd-8th = 12 hours
9th-16th = 8 hours
17th-24th = 6 hours

As for the division, I just don't want to see the two finalist in the same division (like last draft). Other than that, I don't care much. Perhaps randomness is the best way to go.

 

[vancityluongo]

Fully agreed seventies.

Tuesday is the perfect deadline date

Wednesday is perfect for the draft order

As always, I would HATE to see someone being skipped in the first two rounds. What I would do:

1st round = 24 hours
2nd round = 18 hours
3rd-8th = 12 hours
9th-16th = 8 hours
17th-24th = 6 hours

That sounds good to me as well. It would definitely suck to get skipped in the first couple rounds, and that would pretty much automatically ensure that you don't go very far in the playoffs. I think to prevent that from happening to anyone, we should come up with a solid start date, and try and have a live draft, (or as close to a live draft as possible). Someone could PM everyone to see when they're available and co-ordinate times that work.

Or is that too much work? I could volunteer for doing something, but I don't have the skills or the time to even co-administrate.

 

[Leaf Lander]

do we have 28 teams yet?

 

[DoMakc]

Saturday the 28th? Works for me.

We'd need a deadline to join (Tuesday?), then a draft order set (Wednesday? spits has a great method he used last time), then a couple of days to set strategy, talk to co-GMs, make trades (for those who didn't vow not to), etcetera.

And a 12 hour clock? Or 24 for the first round? (I personally always find the second round takes longer than the first to decide)

What do the others think?

Does it mean the clock for the first pick starts at Saturday, but we can pick earlier or we have to wait till Saturday?

 

[Sturminator]

in ATD 8 (i think it was #8), BM67 drew up the divisions by draft pick.
top 4 picks were in different divisions.

an attempt to balance divisions.

Considering that the actual success rate of teams with top-4 picks doesn't seem to be above the average, I see no particular reason to actively split up teams based on pick order. But I also don't have a big problem with it, if that is the will of the group.

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

Considering that the actual success rate of teams with top-4 picks doesn't seem to be above the average, I see no particular reason to actively split up teams based on pick order. But I also don't have a big problem with it, if that is the will of the group.

I agree. If the goal is to make random divisions, then it is a fine way to make random divisions, but, it has virtually no effect on parity.

 

[seventieslord]

True enough. I was incorrect earlier. Great for randomness, irrelevant to parity. I still like method 3 but would obviously settle for method 2

 

[VanIslander]

Like vancity I was for geographical divisions in previous drafts and made the most sense when we had 32 teams because it sure helped figure out which teams were which teams rivals without having to look back so much, especially to know which teams aren't in your conference.

Like vancity I don't care this time around as indeed I too would like to see some shake up in the divisional opponents faced.

The BM67 method of basing divisions on draft order sounds like the way to go this time , as at least four of us think so. I suggest it along with a TWEAK to ensure that each of the four newbie GMs (canadiensfan, domakc, reds4life, kyle mcmahon) to the main ATD are placed in different divisions.

But... if we went with engineered variety, I'd suggest the following (with a bit of tweaking) as pretty balanced in terms of champions, newbies, longterm veterans:

pitseleh - Nanaimo Clippers
DoMakc - Kilkenny Bustards
VanIslander & Hockey Outsider - Thunder Bay Twins
papershoes - Kenora Thistles
Hedberg - Victoria Salmon Kings
Jungosi - Wacken Warriors

Evil Speaker & Sturminator - Boston Bruins
Reds4Life- Trinec Steelers
spitfire11 - Detroit Red Wings
chaosrevolver & Boootthh - Team Soviet Union
shawnmullin - Trail Smoke Eaters
Leopold Stotch - Boston Braves

EagleBelfour - Detroit Falcons
CanadiensFan - Montreal Canadiens
Leaf Lander - Toronto Maple Leafs
nik jr. - lada togliatti
Nalyd Psycho - Minnesota Fighting Saints
seventieslord & vancityluongo - name TBA

arrbez - Inglewood Jacks
Kyle McMahon - Hampton Roads Admirals
GodBlessCanada & raleh - name TBA
camperjr - Edmonton Oilers
ToskaLOL - Glace Bay Miners

 

[God Bless Canada]

I like those division alignments. From my perspective, I've never been in a division with arrbez or camper, I have the utmost respect for McMahon, and I was in a division with ToskaLOL/TC in ATD 6, and I've built up a strong rivalry with him in the MLD.

My only concern is that there are two former ATD champs (HO and pit) in the one division. You might want to switch one of the teams.

 

[VanIslander]

My only concern is that there are two former ATD champs (HO and pit) in the one division. You might want to switch one of the teams.

But HO and I are co-GMs and I've never even made it out of the second round so it balances out

that said... adjusted as per GBC's suggestion:

pitseleh - Nanaimo Clippers
DoMakc - Kilkenny Bustards
spitfire11 - Detroit Red Wings
papershoes - Kenora Thistles
Hedberg - Victoria Salmon Kings
Jungosi - Wacken Warriors

Evil Speaker & Sturminator - Boston Bruins
Reds4Life- Trinec Steelers
VanIslander & Hockey Outsider - Thunder Bay Twins
chaosrevolver & Boootthh - Team Soviet Union
shawnmullin - Trail Smoke Eaters
Leopold Stotch - Boston Braves

EagleBelfour - Detroit Falcons
CanadiensFan - Montreal Canadiens
Leaf Lander - Toronto Maple Leafs
nik jr. - lada togliatti
Nalyd Psycho - Minnesota Fighting Saints
seventieslord & vancityluongo - name TBA

arrbez - Inglewood Jacks
Kyle McMahon - Hampton Roads Admirals
GodBlessCanada & raleh - name TBA
camperjr - Edmonton Oilers
ToskaLOL - Glace Bay Miners
plus one more team here

pretty balanced eh?