Prospect Info: At 9th Overall the Detroit Red Wings Select Michael Rasmussen

[Redder Winger]

Its not a myth, each player is highly individual in the path they must navigate to get to the NHL. Ras is not a polished player and is a very likely candidate for being converted to winger once he hits the pros. A year in the AHL will allow him to adjust to playing against men and the longer, more travel intensive schedule.

It is a myth. And it's far easier for a center to convert to wing than vice versa.

Just because a guy isn't polished doesn't mean he needs to waste a year in the WHL.

If he can handle a third line role in Detroit, he should play in Detroit.

A 6'6, 225-pound forward isn't likely going to need another WHL year PLUS an entire year in the AHL.

 

[Ezekial]

What does Jurco'd or Athanasiou'd mean?

Put on the fourth line without players to support him I'm guessing.



By the way, he didn't play in last night's tri city game.

 

[Redder Winger]

What does Jurco'd or Athanasiou'd mean?

Jurco's career got busted because after a promising rookie year playing with Tatar and Sheahan, he spent a majority of the next 2 years playing with Miller and Glendening - and that's not his style of game. Expecting success out of him in that role was foolish.
Athanasiou has spent an awful lot of time next to David Booth and Scott Wilson.

If you're going to play Rasmussen as your 4C in an 11/7 situation - then no, keep him anywhere but Detroit.

I sure as hell hope the Red Wings aren't going to try to convert him away from Center unless they have reason to believe he won't work out there.

We need centers.

 

[Shaman464]

Put on the fourth line without players to support him I'm guessing.



By the way, he didn't play in last night's tri city game.

Jurco's skill set wasn't ever likely to translate, just like Pulkks. Watching them in the AHL they both thrived when given time and space, and once they didn't have it both were neutralized as threats. It is what it is. As for AA, the way he's playing? He hasn't shown that he deserves any time in the top 9, so, at this point playing on the 4thish line isn't the end of the world.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Jurco's career got busted because after a promising rookie year playing with Tatar and Sheahan, he spent a majority of the next 2 years playing with Miller and Glendening - and that's not his style of game. Expecting success out of him in that role was foolish.
Athanasiou has spent an awful lot of time next to David Booth and Scott Wilson.

If you're going to play Rasmussen as your 4C in an 11/7 situation - then no, keep him anywhere but Detroit.

I sure as hell hope the Red Wings aren't going to try to convert him away from Center unless they have reason to believe he won't work out there.

We need centers.

If you hot rod him to Detroit because you "think he can handle 3C duties", there is a good chance that you get another Sheahan. A guy who can look pretty good when playing with top 6 guys, but when they go up to the top 6 and he's actually playing a 3rd line role with 3rd line support guys, he's terrible and is either moved to wing himself or languishes with crap around him.

If you think the Wings are a tirefire that should burn to the ground and are locked into being so for several more years.. Why on Earth would you want to rush your highest draft pick in 30 years to the show to play with a bunch of worthless stiffs? Why would you want Michael Rasmussen to play with defense pairings who can't get his line the puck, with linemates who can't create a damn thing on their own, and with a coaching staff that will run him out there 8 minutes a night?

Holland is such a ****ing moron that he's loaded our team with unmovable crap, right? The Wings are destined to be a bottom 5 team for like the next three years, right? Why are you hammering down the door to bring a developing kid into such an awful situation? I want Rasmussen to be counted on for huge minutes. I want his confidence to stay sky-high. A way to NOT have that happen would be to toss him on a 3rd line in Detroit and have him get his doors blown off by the men in the league.

 

[Frk It]

If you hot rod him to Detroit because you "think he can handle 3C duties", there is a good chance that you get another Sheahan. A guy who can look pretty good when playing with top 6 guys, but when they go up to the top 6 and he's actually playing a 3rd line role with 3rd line support guys, he's terrible and is either moved to wing himself or languishes with crap around him.

If you think the Wings are a tirefire that should burn to the ground and are locked into being so for several more years.. Why on Earth would you want to rush your highest draft pick in 30 years to the show to play with a bunch of worthless stiffs? Why would you want Michael Rasmussen to play with defense pairings who can't get his line the puck, with linemates who can't create a damn thing on their own, and with a coaching staff that will run him out there 8 minutes a night?

Holland is such a ****ing moron that he's loaded our team with unmovable crap, right? The Wings are destined to be a bottom 5 team for like the next three years, right? Why are you hammering down the door to bring a developing kid into such an awful situation? I want Rasmussen to be counted on for huge minutes. I want his confidence to stay sky-high. A way to NOT have that happen would be to toss him on a 3rd line in Detroit and have him get his doors blown off by the men in the league.

What's the issue with starting him as a 3rd line center? Scheifele started out as a 3rd line center. Monahan started out as a 3rd line center. Kuznetsov started out as a 3rd line center. Seguin started out as a 3rd line center.

Playing Riley Sheahan as a 3rd line center at 22 years old didn't ruin him. He wasn't going to became more than that regardless.

 

[Frk It]

Jurco's skill set wasn't ever likely to translate, just like Pulkks. Watching them in the AHL they both thrived when given time and space, and once they didn't have it both were neutralized as threats. It is what it is. As for AA, the way he's playing? He hasn't shown that he deserves any time in the top 9, so, at this point playing on the 4thish line isn't the end of the world.

Still think it was the back injuries that did him in more than anything, but that's just me.

 

[Shaman464]

Still think it was the back injuries that did him in more than anything, but that's just me.

I think it was a lot of things, but I noticed the second that he had a defender shadowing him closely some of the things he did when he had time and space went away. I think a lot of the problem was instead of trying to simplify his game he tried to be even more slick.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

What's the issue with starting him as a 3rd line center? Scheifele started out as a 3rd line center. Monahan started out as a 3rd line center. Kuznetsov started out as a 3rd line center. Seguin started out as a 3rd line center.

Playing Riley Sheahan as a 3rd line center at 22 years old didn't ruin him. He wasn't going to became more than that regardless.

It isn't starting him as a 3C that would be the problem. It would be starting him as a 3C because he's slightly better than Darren Helm at the role. It would be slotting him in as a 3C with a terrible defensive pair behind him. If Razzy shows that he's got the stuff to be one and is a big upgrade at 3C, by all means play him there. I just don't want to toss him in there and hope that he's 5% better than Darren Helm.

It's rushing him here to play 3C on a team that will have huge problems staying competitive in games.

 

[Frk It]

It isn't starting him as a 3C that would be the problem. It would be starting him as a 3C because he's slightly better than Darren Helm at the role. It would be slotting him in as a 3C with a terrible defensive pair behind him. If Razzy shows that he's got the stuff to be one and is a big upgrade at 3C, by all means play him there. I just don't want to toss him in there and hope that he's 5% better than Darren Helm.

It's rushing him here to play 3C on a team that will have huge problems staying competitive in games.

All the players I mentioned were a 3C by the age of 20. We are dealing with top 10 picks now, so I think we should be changing how we look at this a bit. Frankly if a kid we are drafting top 10 isn't more than marginally better than Darren Helm within a year of being drafted, we probably flopped on the pick. I think Rasmussen will be, and I expect him to be on Detroit next year since the AHL isn't an option. If he's talented enough to become more than a 3C, he will. Do I wish he had better defenseman to play with? Hell yeah. But who knows how long that's going to take.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

All the players I mentioned were a 3C by the age of 20. We are dealing with top 10 picks now, so I think we should be changing how we look at this a bit. Frankly if a kid we are drafting top 10 isn't more than marginally better than Darren Helm within a year of being drafted, we probably flopped on the pick. I think Rasmussen will be, and I expect him to be on Detroit next year since the AHL isn't an option. If he's talented enough to become more than a 3C, he will. Do I wish he had better defenseman to play with? Hell yeah. But who knows how long that's going to take.

I mean, I'm not saying sit him in the WHL/AHL in perpetuity. Just that he'll have to show that he's heads and shoulders the best option for the role for me to give it to him. I don't want the Wings to ever be in the business of just handing a roster spot to a kid because he's 20 years old.

I need to see more from Razzy to put him there. All of those guys showed beyond a shadow of a doubt that they were made for the NHL when they were drafted or it very quickly became apparent in their first camp or two that they did. All I'm saying is make Rasmussen do that next year. Keep an open mind about bringing him, but don't push for it just because "other successful players were ready at 20".

I expect him to solidly push for a role in Detroit next year. However, if the choices are stick him on the third line with Tyler Bertuzzi and a David Booth-equivalent or let him be THE MAN in Tri-City again, I'm leaning towards Tri-City. The last thing I want to do is bring a kid with talent to Detroit, throw him on a checking line, and rip him apart when his scoring doesn't develop like we think it should.

 

[Frk It]

I mean, I'm not saying sit him in the WHL/AHL in perpetuity. Just that he'll have to show that he's heads and shoulders the best option for the role for me to give it to him. I don't want the Wings to ever be in the business of just handing a roster spot to a kid because he's 20 years old.

I need to see more from Razzy to put him there. All of those guys showed beyond a shadow of a doubt that they were made for the NHL when they were drafted or it very quickly became apparent in their first camp or two that they did. All I'm saying is make Rasmussen do that next year. Keep an open mind about bringing him, but don't push for it just because "other successful players were ready at 20".

I expect him to solidly push for a role in Detroit next year. However, if the choices are stick him on the third line with Tyler Bertuzzi and a David Booth-equivalent or let him be THE MAN in Tri-City again, I'm leaning towards Tri-City. The last thing I want to do is bring a kid with talent to Detroit, throw him on a checking line, and rip him apart when his scoring doesn't develop like we think it should.

Getting a little bit concerned at his durability. Some of these bigger guys like Hanzal always seemed to be dinged up. But as long as he gets healthy and stays healthy he should make the Wings next year, IMO.

There's enough great players in the league that started out playing 13, 14, 15 minutes their first year to where I'm not worried about that at all. Cream rises to the top, bud

 

[TatarTangle]

Zetterberg's said he only has one more year after this season so move him to wing and roll Larkin - Neilsen - Ras - Helm down the middle. It's just an extremely tough pill to swallow having your fourth line center making $3.85 million :/

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Getting a little bit concerned at his durability. Some of these bigger guys like Hanzal always seemed to be dinged up. But as long as he gets healthy and stays healthy he should make the Wings next year, IMO.

There's enough great players in the league that started out playing 13, 14, 15 minutes their first year to where I'm not worried about that at all. Cream rises to the top, bud

Yeah, all that is a good point. Mostly, I'm more worried about Rasmussen being on a team in his first year that will have almost no chance at success. Why throw him on a team that is basically destined to be DOA next year if he isn't simply so good in the WHL that you can't keep him there?

 

[Redder Winger]

If you hot rod him to Detroit because you "think he can handle 3C duties", there is a good chance that you get another Sheahan. A guy who can look pretty good when playing with top 6 guys, but when they go up to the top 6 and he's actually playing a 3rd line role with 3rd line support guys, he's terrible and is either moved to wing himself or languishes with crap around him.

If you think the Wings are a tirefire that should burn to the ground and are locked into being so for several more years.. Why on Earth would you want to rush your highest draft pick in 30 years to the show to play with a bunch of worthless stiffs? Why would you want Michael Rasmussen to play with defense pairings who can't get his line the puck, with linemates who can't create a damn thing on their own, and with a coaching staff that will run him out there 8 minutes a night?

Holland is such a ****ing moron that he's loaded our team with unmovable crap, right? The Wings are destined to be a bottom 5 team for like the next three years, right? Why are you hammering down the door to bring a developing kid into such an awful situation? I want Rasmussen to be counted on for huge minutes. I want his confidence to stay sky-high. A way to NOT have that happen would be to toss him on a 3rd line in Detroit and have him get his doors blown off by the men in the league.

Please.
I'm not saying shoehorn him into the lineup.

Stop arguing against points nobody is making.

But if he can come in as a third liner, play netfront PP and the PK - that's 15-17 minutes a night most nights.

If he can do that, I'd rather him do that in the NHL than beating up in 16 year old WHLers.
At some point, he's got nothing else to prove against kids.

 

[Redder Winger]

Yeah, all that is a good point. Mostly, I'm more worried about Rasmussen being on a team in his first year that will have almost no chance at success. Why throw him on a team that is basically destined to be DOA next year if he isn't simply so good in the WHL that you can't keep him there?

Did playing on a DOA team ruin Steve Yzerman?
Sidney Crosby?
Mario Lemiuex?
Anze Kopitar?

What are you worried about exactly?

 

[kliq]

Did playing on a DOA team ruin Steve Yzerman?
Sidney Crosby?
Mario Lemiuex?
Anze Kopitar?

What are you worried about exactly?

I think it's fair to say that Rasmussen isn't going to be at the same level of any of those players. Lets not mistaken the kid for Connor McDavid here.

 

[Dotter]

I think it's fair to say that Rasmussen isn't going to be at the same level of any of those players. Lets not mistaken the kid for Connor McDavid here.

I mean if Wayne Gretzky can do it...

 

[Redder Winger]

What's the issue with starting him as a 3rd line center? Scheifele started out as a 3rd line center. Monahan started out as a 3rd line center. Kuznetsov started out as a 3rd line center. Seguin started out as a 3rd line center.

Playing Riley Sheahan as a 3rd line center at 22 years old didn't ruin him. He wasn't going to became more than that regardless.

I think people think that the Red Wings still take their time with prospects and they're already starting their arguments ahead of time.

I think we've seen with Larkin that when this organization decides it wants to give a good kid an opportunity, it will do so (Larkin).
We've also seen them not be so generous and liberal with icetime (Athanasiou and, to a lesser extent, Mantha).

The bottom line will be, where does the organization see Rasmussen?
If he comes to camp next year and blows the doors off, he's going to stay.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Did playing on a DOA team ruin Steve Yzerman?
Sidney Crosby?
Mario Lemiuex?
Anze Kopitar?

What are you worried about exactly?

Why are you bringing up a top 3 Wing of all time and top 50 NHL player of all time, probably the biggest #1 prospect in the history of the draft EVER, the 2nd biggest #1 prospect in the history of the draft, and a guy who was dropped directly onto the Kings top line at 19? The only remotely relevant comparison in that group is Kopitar and as mentioned, the Kings latched onto him as their 1C almost immediately. He was a super polished two way center upon entering the league.

What do any of those players have to do with what Michael Rasmussen projects to be? Everything that has been said at the time of the pick and after has been that his furthest upper bound is a great 2C in the mold of Ryan Kesler. He's nowhere near the prospect that any of those players are and I'm just seeing that when he predictably has a 20 game scoring drought people will write him off as garbage.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I think people think that the Red Wings still take their time with prospects and they're already starting their arguments ahead of time.

I think we've seen with Larkin that when this organization decides it wants to give a good kid an opportunity, it will do so (Larkin).
We've also seen them not be so generous and liberal with icetime (Athanasiou and, to a lesser extent, Mantha).

The bottom line will be, where does the organization see Rasmussen?
If he comes to camp next year and blows the doors off, he's going to stay.

That is my argument. If he blows the doors off, he should stay and he should play. I am just not throwing my expectations out there that he will. I think he plays ok to good in the preseason, not Larkin blow the doors off (like when he went head to head with Kopitar in that international tournament and held his own)

 

[Dotter]

I think people think that the Red Wings still take their time with prospects and they're already starting their arguments ahead of time.

I think we've seen with Larkin that when this organization decides it wants to give a good kid an opportunity, it will do so (Larkin).
We've also seen them not be so generous and liberal with icetime (Athanasiou and, to a lesser extent, Mantha).

The bottom line will be, where does the organization see Rasmussen?
If he comes to camp next year and blows the doors off, he's going to stay.

I don't think they draw names out of a hat. I think they play the player they know can handle it. In this case it is Dylan Larkin. AA and Mantha don't fall in this category, at all.

Larkin is the first true piece of the 'real' core. As for RAM. I don't know. I like him tearing up his league and dominating. He did look good in camp. Maybe next season they'll give him a look.

 

[Redder Winger]

I don't think they draw names out of a hat. I think they play the player they know can handle it. In this case it is Dylan Larkin. AA and Mantha don't fall in this category, at all.

Larkin is the first true piece of the 'real' core. As for RAM. I don't know. I like him tearing up his league and dominating. He did look good in camp. Maybe next season they'll give him a look.

I'm not getting into a debate about it.

Suffice it to say that if the Red Wings view Rasmussen favorably, he'll get every opportunity.

 

[Redder Winger]

Why are you bringing up a top 3 Wing of all time and top 50 NHL player of all time, probably the biggest #1 prospect in the history of the draft EVER, the 2nd biggest #1 prospect in the history of the draft, and a guy who was dropped directly onto the Kings top line at 19? The only remotely relevant comparison in that group is Kopitar and as mentioned, the Kings latched onto him as their 1C almost immediately. He was a super polished two way center upon entering the league.

What do any of those players have to do with what Michael Rasmussen projects to be? Everything that has been said at the time of the pick and after has been that his furthest upper bound is a great 2C in the mold of Ryan Kesler. He's nowhere near the prospect that any of those players are and I'm just seeing that when he predictably has a 20 game scoring drought people will write him off as garbage.

So? And if all he ever is a 2C, then why the f*** are you worried about him being damaged by starting as a 3C?

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

If he is such a damn certainty to be able to stick as a 3C at 19 and a certainty to grow into more... why in the hell were people deriding this pick so much?

I lose track on this... am I supposed to hate Rasmussen because he's just an unskilled, net front big guy? Or is he unreservedly capable of being a 3C in the NHL just based on his WHL performance?

All I am saying is make him prove it in international tournaments and in camp. Make him earn it like Larkin did. If he's that same level of "I don't belong in this league" that Larkin was in his AHL playoffs and "I do belong in this league" when he went stride for stride with Anze Kopitar, by all means make him a 3C.

I just don't have any expectation that he's going to do that. I certainly give him a shot in camp to prove me wrong, but to steal a Babcock-ism... He's gotta grab that piece of cheese and take it. He has to show the org that he can. I am not interesting in talking about giving him a 3C slot until he has that camp that makes it impossible to send him back. To make the pros, I want a young guy like that to CLEARLY not have anything to learn at the lower league... which to this point Michael Rasmussen has not shown beyond any doubt.

The way I see it, I am not interested in watching a 19 year old make flailing, positional type mistakes in the NHL, not when he could be getting direct coaching, oodles of playing time, and such out of the spot light. I also, even though he does not have documented issues with it like Mantha or AA did, do not want a prospect getting hurried up to the big time to see other guys slack off or play poorly and wonder why his ice time is cut and not Justin Abdelkader's or Luke Glendening's.

Hell, optimal world, everyone wants Blashill, Holland, the whole shot gone. I'd rather not have a 19 year old kid up in the big leagues on a really crappy team with no stability anywhere.