Prospect Info: At 9th Overall the Detroit Red Wings Select Michael Rasmussen

[Redder Winger]

If he is such a damn certainty to be able to stick as a 3C at 19 and a certainty to grow into more... why in the hell were people deriding this pick so much?

Who's certain about it?
This is predicated on how he finishes the season, progresses in the offseason and then plays in the prospect tournament, camp and preseason.

I lose track on this...

I'm not surprised.

All I am saying is make him prove it in international tournaments and in camp. Make him earn it like Larkin did. If he's that same level of "I don't belong in this league" that Larkin was in his AHL playoffs and "I do belong in this league" when he went stride for stride with Anze Kopitar, by all means make him a 3C.

Who isn't saying "Make him prove it."
But Rasmussen isn't going to play for the World championship teams. He won't even get a sniff.

The way I see it, I am not interested in watching a 19 year old make flailing, positional type mistakes in the NHL, not when he could be getting direct coaching, oodles of playing time, and such out of the spot light. I also, even though he does not have documented issues with it like Mantha or AA did, do not want a prospect getting hurried up to the big time to see other guys slack off or play poorly and wonder why his ice time is cut and not Justin Abdelkader's or Luke Glendening's.

He'll get more coaching at the NHL level than any other level. THe best video coaching. The best skills coaching.
The problem of shitty veterans always getting icetime no matter how awful they are should go away, to some extent, when Holland fires Blashill.

Hell, optimal world, everyone wants Blashill, Holland, the whole shot gone. I'd rather not have a 19 year old kid up in the big leagues on a really crappy team with no stability anywhere.

You're grasping at straws.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I personally think "Razzy" was an awful pick and I have no problem giving him ice time in Detroit next year. It's not like we're loaded with talent at center. If Rasmussen can't out perform Helm as a top 10 pick that's a really, really bad sign IMO.

If he busts it's going to be he was an awful reach and pick, not because he was forced into the NHL too early. That's another Holland-ism I'm looking forward to never hearing again

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Who's certain about it?
This is predicated on how he finishes the season, progresses in the offseason and then plays in the prospect tournament, camp and preseason.





I'm not surprised.



Who isn't saying "Make him prove it."
But Rasmussen isn't going to play for the World championship teams. He won't even get a sniff.




He'll get more coaching at the NHL level than any other level. THe best video coaching. The best skills coaching.
The problem of ****ty veterans always getting icetime no matter how awful they are should go away, to some extent, when Holland fires Blashill.



You're grasping at straws.

1) Okay, we're actually both saying the same thing on this point then. I just think it should be a "he's ready to play" in the 3C role with no "oh, he's a 19 year old kid, so it's fine if he makes some mistakes". Making the team and being the 3C, he should be held to the same standard as any veteran put in that role. If you're anticipating that he'll make mistakes and learn at the NHL level... I'd rather have him do another year of that learning at the juniors level.

2) The vast majority derided the pick and thought it was a huge bomb. Why is he all of a sudden being spoken about like it's not just a possiblity but a probability that he could hang as a 3C?

3) He won't get a sniff of the World Championship team... but Larkin did, right? If a guy is going to be aggressively promoted, I need to see any inkling that he should be before I even raise the question.

4) The best coaching... like Blashill? The best coaching where, if current Wings trends hold, he'll get 10-12 mins a night on a 4th line with dime a dozen pluggers if he plays at all? The best coaching from a coaching staff, who again using complaints from here, have basically forced the regression of every single player on the roster and continue to "mistreat" their young kids to where they'll be dying to get out of here right when UFA hits?

5) I don't think I am. I'd rather not bring a 19 year old kid on if he's not a world beater to play with a bunch of really crappy players to learn really bad habits on a team with an uncertain coaching future, an uncertain team construction future, and a defense that looks primed to roll at minimum 5 bottom pairing NHL defensemen.

 

[MikeyDee]

I personally think "Razzy" was an awful pick and I have no problem giving him ice time in Detroit next year. It's not like we're loaded with talent at center. If Rasmussen can't out perform Helm as a top 10 pick that's a really, really bad sign IMO.

I agree Jewels. We shoulda picked Vilardi... who plays a much better all-around game. I was screaming at the TV screen to Holland at the draft: "Pick Vilardi!"

 

[Ezekial]

As much as I wanted Vilardi at the time, starting to believe we made a good avoidance, gotta see how he plays when he finally comes back.

Plenty of other good options at the time though, just waiting and seeing.

 

[Redder Winger]

1) Okay, we're actually both saying the same thing on this point then. I just think it should be a "he's ready to play" in the 3C role with no "oh, he's a 19 year old kid, so it's fine if he makes some mistakes". Making the team and being the 3C, he should be held to the same standard as any veteran put in that role. If you're anticipating that he'll make mistakes and learn at the NHL level... I'd rather have him do another year of that learning at the juniors level.

He is going to make mistakes and learn at the NHL level - whenever he gets there. Whether that's next year, the year after, or two years from now.
I think his best option might be to go to Europe if he's not NHL ready. WOuld he be eligible to play in Switzerland?
At some point, a 6'5 19-20 year old going back to play against 5'10 16 year olds is kind of dumb.

2) The vast majority derided the pick and thought it was a huge bomb. Why is he all of a sudden being spoken about like it's not just a possiblity but a probability that he could hang as a 3C?

Because of the concern about skill in the potential as an elite player.
People think there were players with better potential to be an elite, top line guy.
That has no bearing on whether or not someone could handle a third line role at 19.

3) He won't get a sniff of the World Championship team... but Larkin did, right? If a guy is going to be aggressively promoted, I need to see any inkling that he should be before I even raise the question.

?
You understand that the US put together a very young team, in part, because it lacked anyone else.
Canada still has far more depth than the US or any other country.

4) The best coaching... like Blashill? The best coaching where, if current Wings trends hold, he'll get 10-12 mins a night on a 4th line with dime a dozen pluggers if he plays at all? The best coaching from a coaching staff, who again using complaints from here, have basically forced the regression of every single player on the roster and continue to "mistreat" their young kids to where they'll be dying to get out of here right when UFA hits?

Blashill won't be here.
He's done after this season.

And whoever is here will be better than Mike Williamson of the TriCity Americans.
And it's not just about the name. It's about the coaching infrastructure available to NHL teams.

I don't think I am. I'd rather not bring a 19 year old kid on if he's not a world beater to play with a bunch of really crappy players to learn really bad habits on a team with an uncertain coaching future, an uncertain team construction future, and a defense that looks primed to roll at minimum 5 bottom pairing NHL defensemen.

What's so f***ing great about the Tri-City Americans? Haven't been out of round 1 in the playoffs for 6 years.

Plenty of good and great NHLers began their careers with bad teams.
Stop acting like it hurt them some how.

 

[Redder Winger]

I agree Jewels. We shoulda picked Vilardi... who plays a much better all-around game. I was screaming at the TV screen to Holland at the draft: "Pick Vilardi!"

When the Rangers drafted Lias Anderson, I got so f***ing excited.

We were going to get Mittelstadt or Vilardi.... either guy would have been a huge win

And then the Red Wings drafted the one top-10 guy i desperately wanted to avoid.

Hard to feel much worse about a draft pick

That said - he's our guy now and I hope he makes it.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I agree Jewels. We shoulda picked Vilardi... who plays a much better all-around game. I was screaming at the TV screen to Holland at the draft: "Pick Vilardi!"

I don't mind that we passed on Vilardi. He will play wing at the NHL level. It would be nice though to have Necas in the system.

 

[Dotter]

I personally think "Razzy" was an awful pick and I have no problem giving him ice time in Detroit next year. It's not like we're loaded with talent at center. If Rasmussen can't out perform Helm as a top 10 pick that's a really, really bad sign IMO.

If he busts it's going to be he was an awful reach and pick, not because he was forced into the NHL too early. That's another Holland-ism I'm looking forward to never hearing again

Did you get to watch RAM play during the NHL preseason? I'm certain many of your concerns would have been lifted if you did. He was a stud and looked NHL ready.

 

[Shaman464]

Again, I don't believe he will be brought into this league as a center, he has all the qualities of a winger in the NHL.

 

[MikeyDee]

Did you get to watch RAM play during the NHL preseason? I'm certain many of your concerns would have been lifted if you did. He was a stud and looked NHL ready.

Impressive on PP, but still work for him to do even strength (IMO).

 

[Dotter]

Impressive on PP, but still work for him to do even strength (IMO).

He skated way better than you could ever imagine out of any 6'6" player. He passed the puck well. Has great hockey IQ and was always in the right position. He was okay along the boards, but I did expect him to be better given his size. He is slender, but will no doubt grow into his frame.

He was an absolute BEAST on the PP.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Again, I don't believe he will be brought into this league as a center, he has all the qualities of a winger in the NHL.

And this is another reason why I'd like him to stay in juniors for the next year too. The Wings need guys who are Cs. Not guys who will learn to play C at the NHL level after a year or two of playing on the wing. Have them work out positioning and all that in more minutes than they could ever handle and play them as a C from day one. Again, this changes if he's blow your socks off fantastic in camp.

 

[Frk It]

Again, I don't believe he will be brought into this league as a center, he has all the qualities of a winger in the NHL.

What does he lack that would prevent him from being a center?

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Again, I don't believe he will be brought into this league as a center, he has all the qualities of a winger in the NHL.

Long-term he is absolutely a center at the professional level. You can debate whether he is a high-end one all you want, but it is his natural position. He reads the play very well without the puck in the neutral and defensive zones and shows good instincts in supporting his defensemen to start transition. Nothing looks forced or contrived.

If people are going to having meaningful conversations about Ras, they really need to start watching him play.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Again, I don't believe he will be brought into this league as a center, he has all the qualities of a winger in the NHL.

And what makes you honestly believe that? The long term plan is Larks as our #1C and Raz as our #2C i definitely see Rasmussen as a Center within the Wings organization that might only change if a miracle comes and we sign Tavares then maybe Raz goes to the wing but as of now the intention is to have Raz be a Center within the organization.

 

[Shaman464]

And what makes you honestly believe that? The long term plan is Larks as our #1C and Raz as our #2C i definitely see Rasmussen as a Center within the Wings organization that might only change if a miracle comes and we sign Tavares then maybe Raz goes to the wing but as of now the intention is to have Raz be a Center within the organization.

The only way Larkin and Ras are #1 and #2 is if this team is okay with being a bubble team. Neither have high end ability, Larkin is realistically a #2 center. As for why he's got winger written all over him is because he doesn't show the hockey sense necessary to be a center. His skill set trends more towards being a big body winger that plays tough in the corners and in front of the net. To be a top 6 center in this league you need to have a good hockey sense.

On top of that, Rasmussen outside of net-front presence tends to find himself kind of average at most other things. He’s not the best puck-handler, his “hockey-IQ” isn’t developed as much as his passing and skating are, and he’s not terribly creative offensively, preferring to be the net front presence instead of trying to open space.

But Rasmussen is not going to be a first line centre in the NHL. Middle six expectations may be more readily met, and while that is a very valuable commodity, it’s not one that you’d want to use a first round pick on. Not when there are players with top six scoring potential littered throughout the first round.

There was criticism, some of it warranted, directed to Detroit for the Michael Rasmussen pick. I don't hate the pick -- he's a good player, after all -- but I wouldn't have taken him that high based on his pure upside. Gustav Lindstrom was a riser this season and is skilled, but No. 38 also seemed generous to me. In the middle of the Wings' class they targeted a lot of boring, low-upside types that just don't do a lot for me. For the amount of picks the Wings had, they could have done more, and they don't seem to be drafting like the skill/IQ Wings of the days of yore.

For me, Rasmussen isn't devoid of talent but he also is a player who I question in regards to his skill level and hockey sense. To be that coveted top 6 guys, I didn't see enough to check off all the boxes which are generally givens in elite prospects. Rasmussen is an NHL player, but watching a polarizing player like him this year has me more convinced that he has an upside more fit for a 3rd line than your driving force at even strength.

Of the various players projected at no.9 I think Rasmussen should be a little further down the list. Many scouts believe he has the tools to be an elite goal scorer on an NHL level. I’m seeing a player who will struggle to consistently drive playmaking as a center but would be ideal as a winger, raising hell around the net.

All of these things point to him being someone who will be better as someone on the wing, playing with an offensively creative center.

PS while I am not in love with the pick, I actually do like it, but everything I have read just says that if he shows good offensive skills he will be converted to wing and left there. If not he will likely be a third line center.

 

[jkutswings]

He skated way better than you could ever imagine out of any 6'6" player. He passed the puck well. Has great hockey IQ and was always in the right position. He was okay along the boards, but I did expect him to be better given his size. He is slender, but will no doubt grow into his frame.

He was an absolute BEAST on the PP.

In a handful of meaningless preseason games. Against rosters plentiful with players currently back in the minors, or out of hockey altogether.

Rasmussen has done well thus far, but pump the brakes a bit. You make it sound like they should reserve his slot in the HOF already.

 

[Shaman464]

Long-term he is absolutely a center at the professional level. You can debate whether he is a high-end one all you want, but it is his natural position. He reads the play very well without the puck in the neutral and defensive zones and shows good instincts in supporting his defensemen to start transition. Nothing looks forced or contrived.

If people are going to having meaningful conversations about Ras, they really need to start watching him play.

I have watched him play, but, he's also a man playing against boys right now, so until I see him play professionally, reading his play in the CHL right now is like reading the cover and saying you know what a book is about.

 

[Dotter]

In a handful of meaningless preseason games. Against rosters plentiful with players currently back in the minors, or out of hockey altogether.

Rasmussen has done well thus far, but pump the brakes a bit. You make it sound like they should reserve his slot in the HOF already.

I never once called him a future HOF. I said, based on meaningless preseason games, he looked NHL ready. You need to pump the brakes on your constant hyperboling.

 

[jkutswings]

I never once called him a future HOF. I said, based on meaningless preseason games, he looked NHL ready. You need to pump the brakes on your constant hyperboling.

You said:
"He skated way better than you could ever imagine out of any 6'6" player."

"He was an absolute BEAST on the PP."

I believe you're the one using hyperbole, not me.

 

[Dotter]

You said:
"He skated way better than you could ever imagine out of any 6'6" player."

"He was an absolute BEAST on the PP."

I believe you're the one using hyperbole, not me.

It's a long known fact that big skaters don't always skate well. I'm not the only one said he skates well for a big guy.

"One thing that impressed me there was I thought he was a very smooth skater for a big guy and he made lots of plays in small areas, but he certainly day by day has made a positive impact," Blashill said.

Did you even watch him play?

 

[Winger98]

All of these things point to him being someone who will be better as someone on the wing, playing with an offensively creative center.

PS while I am not in love with the pick, I actually do like it, but everything I have read just says that if he shows good offensive skills he will be converted to wing and left there. If not he will likely be a third line center.

that's been my concern with Rasmussen. I've seen more than a few people throw out an Anders Lee comparison, and I like the pick a lot less if Rasmussen is a wing.

 

[jkutswings]

It's a long known fact that big skaters don't always skate well. I'm not the only one said he skates well for a big guy.

There's nothing wrong with saying he skates extremely well for a big guy. The point is that, unless he literally was a better skater than anybody could possibly imagine a player of that size being, then the words you used are a large exaggeration. A hyperbole.

Did you even watch him play?

No, I did not. But whether I or anybody else did or did not witness him play is independent of using hyperbolic language to describe it.

You like him as a prospect. Cool. I'm just saying, consider being a bit more measured with the terminology you employ, or you come across as thinking the kid will set the league on fire right away.

 

[Dotter]

that's been my concern with Rasmussen. I've seen more than a few people throw out an Anders Lee comparison, and I like the pick a lot less if Rasmussen is a wing.

I'm not sure what @Shaman464 said is true. Blashill specifically said he needs to be better than Zetterberg, Larkin or Neilson. He said RAM isn't there yet, so that's why they are not giving him any NHL games.

They aren't showing or expressing any signs they plan on moving him to wing.