Around the NHL Thread - The Amount of Drafts in July is TOO DAMN HIGH!

[Darth Vladar]

No body is worth a billion to own a team and yet here we are

And Mario Lemieux took that personally.

 

[Anglesmith]

Well the guy has still made $30M on his current contract while achieving absolutely nothing while most people who grind at regular jobs just to watch him play a game probably won't earn a million in their entire lives. It makes me sick to my stomach.

It's one of those things you kind of have to get over at some point. Not just with sports, but with any kind of entertainment, too. When so much revenue is generated by something, that money is going to end up somewhere.

Do you feel this way about all NHL players who fit that description, though?

 

[Darth Vladar]

It's one of those things you kind of have to get over at some point. Not just with sports, but with any kind of entertainment, too. When so much revenue is generated by something, that money is going to end up somewhere.

Do you feel this way about all NHL players who fit that description, though?

Not all entertainment is the same, and not everyone makes that kind of money with their particular craft. People can learn something new about the world (or themselves) from watching a movie, or become moved or inspired by hearing a great musician or band, and there are artifacts of that entertainment (i.e. films and albums that stand the test of time and are enjoyed forever). You're talking about people who put a piece of rubber in a net, and get paid the same amount whether or not they actually perform that task. If the NHL becomes any worse with it's off-ice drama and politics, hockey won't even be the reason people watch anymore. Just visit any hockey blog or YouTube channel, and you'll see that it's already happening. Eichel and Kane is all anybody talks about for hits/views, and not even anything about their play. Even lifelong hockey fans are going to come to their senses one day and realize there are much better, less toxic ways to be entertained, and that the $4B they generate every year supporting the NHL would be better spent elsewhere.

By the time Mario Lemieux was at the same stage in his career as Eichel is now, he already had 800 pts and two Stanley Cups. The Penguins franchise was in such bad shape when he was drafted, he didn't even want to put on the fkn jersey. But he did. He didn't bitch and moan about who he was forced to play with. He turned them into stars. Did you ever hear of Rob Brown again after 88-89? Yet at that same juncture in his career, Mario had only made about $6.5M (which, adjusted for inflation, would have been about 13.7M today). He took less pay so they could surround him with better players, and when it looked like the Pens were in danger of going broke, he used those very earnings to pony up for that as well and became an owner--while he was still a player--to keep the team in Pittsburgh. He went on to win gold for his country, let Crosby stay at his place to keep him on the straight and narrow, and went on to win a few more cups as owner. Everything this man did was not just to the benefit of a team he originally didn't even want to play for, but to the game itself. So you'll have to excuse my lack of sympathy for "generational talent" Mr. Eichel.

 

[TheHudlinator]

Why didn't Eichel sign a 100 point HOF defenseman to help fix the Sabres yet is an excellent question.

 

[Darth Vladar]

Why didn't Eichel sign a 100 point HOF defenseman to help fix the Sabres yet is an excellent question.

Not as good a question as why he deserves to have already made over $30M in his career to this point.

Maybe if Eichel had offered to take less money so the Sabres could surround him with better players, he'd have his Paul Coffey. Or Dave Semenko, for that matter.

 

[TheHudlinator]

Not as good a question as why he deserves to have already made over $30M in his career to this point.

What a strange obsession to have.

 

[Darth Vladar]

What a strange obsession to have.

It's not an obsession, it's basic economics, and the impact of certain industries on culture as a whole. You can't have people continually making millions of dollars to NOT do something, and expect that industry to thrive long-term. Which is likely why the NHL has resorted to selling drama and politics instead of hockey to keep the gravy train rolling.

 

[TheHudlinator]

It's not an obsession, it's basic economics, and the impact of certain industries on culture as a whole.

You've made 10+ posts taking about how over paid hockey players are especially Eichel. So stop watching don't give them money and move on with your life. You want to talk about over paid people focus on the billionaire owners who demand 10s to 100s of millions of dollars of public funds to build these stadiums. The only thing Eichel is doing is taking a billionaires money to which I applaud him, hope he takes a much as he can. Eichel isn't the reason the housing market is f***ed or the reason the minimum wage isn't a livable wage in large city's.

 

[Darth Vladar]

You've made 10+ posts taking about how over paid hockey players are especially Eichel. So stop watching don't give them money and move on with your life. You want to talk about over paid people focus on the billionaire owners who demand 10s to 100s of millions of dollars of public funds to build these stadiums. The only thing Eichel is doing is taking a billionaires money to which I applaud him, hope he takes a much as he can. Eichel isn't the reason the housing market is f***ed or the reason the minimum wage isn't a livable wage in large city's.

Don't worry about how many posts I make about the economics of hockey in a hockey forum. It's not as though a conversation about the business side of hockey has to be limited to player contracts when there are much further reaching implications. If you're not capable of engaging in a healthy, civil debate on the state of the game, and the impact of the industry on culture, nobody is forcing you to reply to my comments, but I have as much right as anyone to voice my opinion about it, especially if I'm using facts to support that opinion.

You seem to be suggesting that the money Eichel is getting paid with comes straight from a billionaire's pocket, and not from the revenue generated by the team, which only comes from fans supporting said team, for which they need a reason, and Eichel has given zero reason six years into his career to have made more than anyone in almost any other profession you can think of. Industries in which people get paid fortunes to not provide a service of any real value are absolutely part of the reason why the economy AND the culture are in the shitter.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Meanwhile Mr. Money phone himself has made almost twice that of Eichel during his career, and counting...

See I can compare apples to carrots too.

 

[Darth Vladar]

Meanwhile Mr. Money phone himself has made almost twice that of Eichel during his career, and counting...

See I can compare apples to carrots too.

There are more parallels between Lemieux's situation and Eichel's situation than you seem willing to acknowledge. Eichel and Kane, not so much.

 

[Anglesmith]

This is a very bizarre double standard. Not sure there is any logical discussion to be found.

Meanwhile, I hear Jimothy Neal had a hat trick last night.

 

[Darth Vladar]

This is a very bizarre double standard. Not sure there is any logical discussion to be found.

You don't have to agree with me, but you don't have to insult me either. I'm at least making an effort to explain my opinion, and using facts to support it.

 

[Corpus X]

You don't have to agree with me, but you don't have to insult me either. I'm at least making an effort to explain my opinion, and using facts to support it.

There was no insult. There was an observation.

Telling a horse he's fat and ugly and his mother married a male dairy cow... Now that would be an insult.

You're new here and I commend your engagement in the discussions. Truly. However, when you get going you put yourself into corners that are absolutely silly. Your push for Kane over Eichel is, from our perspective, illogical. To me it looks like you have made your decision out of certain bits of information and thrown out the rest and created a conclusion. This is called cherry picking. Every team on the planet would rather have Eichel than Kane.

I can explain for you exactly how the finance goes. It's my understanding of the "follow the money" trope that allows me to see right through Corporations profiting of the public in all aspects. It's a formula. Every one of you would be angry once you understand how securities work within Government. ... But, I don't have the time. Instead, people can think what they want and it's only when they want me to bow to their opinions where I'll strike back. You'd be amazed at what you find under the 'public carpet' when you understand Government Finance. The laws are written and anyone can go for it.

Currency Act

• 13 (1) Every contract, sale, payment, bill, note, instrument and security for money and every transaction, dealing, matter and thing relating to money or involving the payment of or the liability to pay money shall be made, executed, entered into, done or carried out in the currency of Canada, unless it is made, executed, entered into, done or carried out in
  • (a) the currency of a country other than Canada; or
  • (b) a unit of account that is defined in terms of the currencies of two or more countries.

Now go make your Billions... While we still have contract law as the primary motivator for Law in this country.

 

[Anglesmith]

You don't have to agree with me, but you don't have to insult me either. I'm at least making an effort to explain my opinion, and using facts to support it.

I'm not insulting you, but your beliefs here seem to be so deeply entrenched that it's not really possible to discuss facts. You are applying a different standard to "facts" dependent on who the subject is.

You are criticising Eichel for things that apply to most star players in the NHL: he makes a large amount of money, and hasn't won anything. When pointed out that this applies to a lot of guys that you do support, you are suggesting he should be compared to one of the greatest players of all time, while previously trying to say that he's nothing special and shouldn't be making franchise player money.

I don't think you are using facts to support what you are saying. I think you are using your beliefs to decide what to consider a fact in the case of both Eichel and Kane.

At the end of the day, the only facts that matter here are that two organizations have extremely messy situations on their hands, and it will be interesting from a fan perspective to see how it plays out.

 

[Darth Vladar]

I'm not insulting you, but your beliefs here seem to be so deeply entrenched that it's not really possible to discuss facts. You are applying a different standard to "facts" dependent on who the subject is.

You are criticising Eichel for things that apply to most star players in the NHL: he makes a large amount of money, and hasn't won anything. When pointed out that this applies to a lot of guys that you do support, you are suggesting he should be compared to one of the greatest players of all time, while previously trying to say that he's nothing special and shouldn't be making franchise player money.

I don't think you are using facts to support what you are saying. I think you are using your beliefs to decide what to consider a fact in the case of both Eichel and Kane.

At the end of the day, the only facts that matter here are that two organizations have extremely messy situations on their hands, and it will be interesting from a fan perspective to see how it plays out.

I could say the exact same thing. I'm stating facts, and anyone who might disagree with my opinion might do so because of how deeply entrenched in their own opinions they are. It's ok. People are allowed to believe different things. But nothing I've said about Kane or Eichel is bizarre or illogical, or non-factual for that matter.

One thing we can agree upon is that either situation is messy, and a bad look for both the game and the league. I hope from a fan's perspective that they can sort it out without continuing to politicize it.

 

[Anglesmith]

I could say the exact same thing. I'm stating facts, and anyone who might disagree with my opinion might do so because of how deeply entrenched in their own opinions they are. It's ok. People are allowed to believe different things. But nothing I've said about Kane or Eichel is bizarre or illogical, or non-factual for that matter.

One thing we can agree upon is that either situation is messy, and a bad look for both the game and the league. I hope from a fan's perspective that they can sort it out without continuing to politicize it.

What do you mean by politicizing?

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Meanwhile, I hear Jimothy Neal had a hat trick last night.

Was he also a -2? Asking for a friend.

 

[Darth Vladar]

What do you mean by politicizing?

Are you sure you want me to get into it? Lmao

 

[Anglesmith]

Are you sure you want me to get into it? Lmao

If you did, would it be facts or just conjecture?

 

[Darth Vladar]

If you did, would it be facts or just conjecture?

It's game night, let's save it for another time lol

 

[Darth Vladar]

There was no insult. There was an observation.

Telling a horse he's fat and ugly and his mother married a male dairy cow... Now that would be an insult.

You're new here and I commend your engagement in the discussions. Truly. However, when you get going you put yourself into corners that are absolutely silly. Your push for Kane over Eichel is, from our perspective, illogical. To me it looks like you have made your decision out of certain bits of information and thrown out the rest and created a conclusion. This is called cherry picking. Every team on the planet would rather have Eichel than Kane.

I can explain for you exactly how the finance goes. It's my understanding of the "follow the money" trope that allows me to see right through Corporations profiting of the public in all aspects. It's a formula. Every one of you would be angry once you understand how securities work within Government. ... But, I don't have the time. Instead, people can think what they want and it's only when they want me to bow to their opinions where I'll strike back. You'd be amazed at what you find under the 'public carpet' when you understand Government Finance. The laws are written and anyone can go for it.

Currency Act

• 13 (1) Every contract, sale, payment, bill, note, instrument and security for money and every transaction, dealing, matter and thing relating to money or involving the payment of or the liability to pay money shall be made, executed, entered into, done or carried out in the currency of Canada, unless it is made, executed, entered into, done or carried out in
  • (a) the currency of a country other than Canada; or
  • (b) a unit of account that is defined in terms of the currencies of two or more countries.

Now go make your Billions... While we still have contract law as the primary motivator for Law in this country.

What in the actual hell are you on about? Lmao none of this has anything to do with what we were discussing. Absolutely none of it.

A couple of things:

1. I'm not new here. It's just been so long since I posted that I couldn't remember my old screenname and password, so I had to make a new account.

2. Let's dissect this little number here: "However, when you get going you put yourself into corners that are absolutely silly. Your push for Kane over Eichel is, from our perspective, illogical. To me it looks like you have made your decision out of certain bits of information and thrown out the rest and created a conclusion. This is called cherry picking. Every team on the planet would rather have Eichel than Kane."

You're saying a whole lot without actually saying anything at all, and what you are actually saying is different from what you're trying to give the impression you are saying. I write for a living, so I know well enough how passive aggression, rhetoric and semantics work. Just look at the language you're using. Saying things like "silly", "put yourself in corners", "OUR perspective" (as though you don't have your own independent thoughts and beliefs) and "illogical" (much like the other poster's use of words like "bizarre") are not to convey any particular truth, but rather to get a reaction out of me. It's a tactic millennials use to get people to respond emotionally in debates to pettiness rather than intellectually to the points. You're allowed to have your opinions on Kane and Eichel, but to suggest that it's "illogical" to want a player who is a proven scorer, coming off one of his best seasons (who would have been our leading scorer), who's style is well suited for Sutter, perhaps even available at a discount (especially since Tre is at the cap) for whom we wouldn't have to dismantle our entire roster over a less point-per-game player with zero playoff experience who's run coaches out of town who is seriously injured and already makes $10M, for whom we'd likely have to sell the farm is frankly ridiculous, and makes me curious whether you understand how the term logic is generally applied. You're entitled to your opinion, no matter how ridiculous it is, but much of the talk about whether a team would rather have Kane or Eichel seems less to do with hockey and more to do with gossip, and last time I checked, this was the National Hockey League, not the National Enquirer.

I don't know what "decision" you are even talking about, but everything you said about taking certain bits of information to create a conclusion (i.e. "cherry picking") could not any more accurately describe your post lol, which is another millennial argument tactic btw, accusing someone of the very thing you are guilty of.

You tacked that bit about finance onto the end of your post, which has absolutely nothing to do with anything about the points that were being made about the impact of the sports entertainment industry on culture.

It's a subjective opinion that any athlete deserves $10 million a year to put a piece of rubber in a net, or that it even constitutes "entertainment", but it's an objective opinion that people shouldn't get paid if they don't perform the job they are tasked to do, let alone millions upon millions, when many of the people propping up those very industries are struggling from cheque to cheque. There are cultural implications, whether or not you choose to ignore or distort them.

 

[Corpus X]

What in the actual hell are you on about? Lmao none of this has anything to do with what we were discussing. Absolutely none of it.

It's not an obsession, it's basic economics, and the impact of certain industries on culture as a whole. You can't have people continually making millions of dollars to NOT do something, and expect that industry to thrive long-term. Which is likely why the NHL has resorted to selling drama and politics instead of hockey to keep the gravy train rolling.

It has everything to do with it but you just don't have a clue (most don't) and I was mainly making a point with that very powerful law I put in front of you. When I first read that law I was astonished at what it said and what one could do with it. When you read that law you had no clue what it meant. "Absolutely none of it." Really, I was just having fun showing you that you can use Government to profit anytime you like... But I guess that has nothing to do with turning a profit with a sports business in Canada. Billionaires use debt with laws and their securities (and yours) to their benefit. People donate their securities... and never gain momentum. A billionaire will take the debt and use it to create something. The rich, if they got rich understanding securities, will always be rich because they use the laws created for 'public benefit' to turn profits.

Anytime people bring up finance I am triggered. It's my burden.

To the rest... Ugh. Good luck with Kane. Nobody agrees with you that I have seen. I'm not getting dragged into the silliness and posturing.

 

[Kranix]

At the end of the day, Eichel is still a less than point-per-game, career minus player with zero playoff experience entering his seventh season with an injury that's going to require surgery, already making $10M per. Even without the added drama, this guy gives me a headache.

Why don't you take a break?

 

[Darth Vladar]

It has everything to do with it but you just don't have a clue (most don't) and I was mainly making a point with that very powerful law I put in front of you. When I first read that law I was astonished at what it said and what one could do with it. When you read that law you had no clue what it meant. "Absolutely none of it." Really, I was just having fun showing you that you can use Government to profit anytime you like... But I guess that has nothing to do with turning a profit with a sports business in Canada. Billionaires use debt with laws and their securities (and yours) to their benefit. People donate their securities... and never gain momentum. A billionaire will take the debt and use it to create something. The rich, if they got rich understanding securities, will always be rich because they use the laws created for 'public benefit' to turn profits.

To the rest... Ugh. Good luck with Kane. Nobody agrees with you that I have seen. I'm not getting dragged into the silliness and posturing.

I've continually said that I don't expect anyone to agree with me, and I don't care if anyone does or not. We are talking about two different things, I just can't tell from your end whether it's accidental or purposeful. The conversation you joined wasn't about finance, it was about the impact of the sports entertainment industry specifically on culture, which encompasses far more than anyone reading this thread deserves to be subjected to.