Around the League 2015/2016 Pt 14

[Pip]

I don't think Murray or Gibson return a 9th overall pick right now.

 

[RandV]

One of those IF scenarios would be, IF we had kept Schneid, Jimbo wouldn't have had to spend 18M over 3 years for Miller and that's only assuming Gillis would still have been fired at the end of the 13-14 season which is assuming that Schneid didn't play lights out hockey for us that season and if he had and we had squeaked into a playoff spot, Gillis wouldn't have been fired...

And on and on and on.....

IF Nonis had never traded for Luongo, Schneider could have had a smoother path to the NHL and been our starter for 2010 or 2011 and we never would have had this mess to begin with.

So thanks a lot Nonis!

 

[RandV]

I don't think Murray or Gibson return a 9th overall pick right now.

I don't know about Murray since he just won the Stanley Cup, but I look at Anaheim last year where Gibson (23) and Andersson (26) were basically equal, then consider what Toronto paid to get Andersson: #30 overall in 2016 and a 2017 2nd.

And another telling point looking back then compared today, thanks to the upcoming expansion draft we have two Cup contender teams with a situation in net where you have the difficult to move veteran starter and the more valuable young up and comer: Tampa Bay (Bishop/Vasilevsky) and Pittsburgh (Fleury/Murray).

As they try to sort it out do you see anyone blowing up over it and saying how awful the respective teams GM's are?

 

[mathonwy]

I don't think Murray or Gibson return a 9th overall pick right now.

I beg to differ.

Matt Murray, 22 years old, 620K cap hit, playoff starter, SC winnner, 1A/1B with Fleury
John Gibson, 23 years old, 2.3M cap hit, career #s 2.22GAA - .92Save%, #1 goaltender for ANA

versus

2014 #9-Nikolaj Ehlers, #10-Nick Ritchie, #11 Kevin Fiala
2015 #9-Timo Meier, #10-Mikko Rantanen or #11-Lawson Crouse
2016 #9-Mikhail Sergachev, #10-Tyson Jost or #11-Logan Brown

Let's throw away the term #9 overall pick. Let's just say hypothetically speaking, you needed a goaltender and a GM offered you John Gibson for any of the above players, you would say no?

Mrazek (23), Vasilevskiy (21), Hellebuyck (22) and Korpisalo (21) also belong in this conversation.

 

[Ryp37]

Goalie value has always been low

Devan Dubnyk to Nashville for Matt Hendricks
Cory Schneider for the ninth overall pick (Bo Horvat)
Jonathan Bernier for Ben Scrivens, Matt Frattin, second-rounder
Ben Bishop for Cory Conacher, fourth-rounder
Steve Mason for Michael Leighton, third-rounder
Sergei Bobrovsky for second-rounder, two fourth-rounders
Anders Lindback (and Kyle Wilson) for two second-rounders, one third-rounder and Sebastien Caron
Tomas Vokoun for a seventh-rounder
Semyon Varlamov for first-rounder (Filip Forsberg) and second-rounder
Brian Elliott for Craig Anderson
Dwayne Roloson for Ty Wishart
Jaroslav Halak for Lars Eller and Ian Schultz
Kari Lehtonen for Ivan Vishnevskiy and fourth-rounder


Hell Martin Jones at 25 was moved in a package to get Lucic, then flipped for a late first and a former 5th round pick prospect

 

[PM]

A few years ago Gibson may have returned a top-10 pick. No one is paying a top-10 pick for Matt Murray. He's a good goalie but not nearly as heralded as Schneider was at the time even with his recent cup win. Gibson was the next big thing a few years ago and I can see someone trading a 9th for him if they really needed goaltending over whoever was availble at that pick. Now I'm not so sure.

 

[Pip]

Goalies are typically undervalued. Maybe because there typically arent a ton of teams looking to move good aasets for a netminder sincw most teams are locked into a goalie. That list paints a pretty clear picture. Murray might be the exception because he took his team to the cup and some GMs might place a ton of value in that.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

Goalies are typically undervalued. Maybe because there typically arent a ton of teams looking to move good aasets for a netminder sincw most teams are locked into a goalie. That list paints a pretty clear picture. Murray might be the exception because he took his team to the cup and some GMs might place a ton of value in that.

I don't think they are undervalued; they are just not very valuable.

There's a reason you don't see big FA signings of goalies any more outside of our ******** GM.

 

[Pip]

I don't think they are undervalued; they are just not very valuable.

There's a reason you don't see big FA signings of goalies any more outside of our ******** GM.

Yeah you're right. There are simply too many goalies that are good enough out there. Main reason why I'm usually against taking goalies early in the draft.

 

[RandV]

I don't think they are undervalued; they are just not very valuable.

There's a reason you don't see big FA signings of goalies any more outside of our ******** GM.

No goalies are extremely valuable, there's just an over saturated market of them. It's a supply and demand issue.

If a good goalie forced onto the market only gets a late 1st round pick, it doesn't mean you can pluck a Braden Holtby or Jonathan Quick from their respective teams. Those guys are just as valuable to their organizations as their top forwards or defensemen. When a team finds a good fit in goal they tend to stick with them for the long term.

The problem is when you're forced to trade a good goalie, the straight up cost of the guy you're shipping out isn't worth paying to swap out with another starter for the vast majority of teams in the NHL. In the case when we needed to move Luongo the only teams who were interested or had an immediate need I believe were the Leafs, Islanders, and Panthers.

 

[Balls Mahoney]

 

[HankNDank]

Frankly I doubt we'll ever see a goalie traded for a pick that high again.

You don't think Matt Murray couldn't have gotten a pick that high?

Or a John Gibson?

I think there are plenty of goalies worth a pick that high, or higher, however I don't think a team will be willing to trade away that valuable of an asset. The only way it will happen, I think, is if a team has 2 goalies of that value at the same time in their prime, which is almost impossible to happen.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

I think there are plenty of goalies worth a pick that high, or higher, however I don't think a team will be willing to trade away that valuable of an asset. The only way it will happen, I think, is if a team has 2 goalies of that value at the same time in their prime, which is almost impossible to happen.

Not often do you see a younger goalie in the NHL for 2 full seasons usurp a starting goalie who's a future HHOFer.

 

[tantalum]

Ummm Taylor I don't think your clarification really changes the meaning of your quote.

 

[Samzilla]

Ummm Taylor I don't think your clarification really changes the meaning of your quote.

lmao...glad someone said it

 

[Hit the post]

Hall never struck me as being the sharpest tool in the shed....

(and for the record, neither am I ).

 

[Ori]

A ranger fan here come in peace.. There are some Ranger fans who like to move Zuccarello who is 29 years old - any good players here in Canucks in such a trade suggestion?

Canucks is my second team I root for in NHL - so it would be great if Zuci come here and I think he could help nucks to achieve a playoffs position for sure.

After I listen to the Canuck coach in this interview i`m positive that this team will reach playoffs with their current roster for sure: https://www.nhl.com/canucks/video/benning-desjardins-talk-camp/t-277437438/c-44797003

 

[yvrtojfk]

A ranger fan here come in peace.. There are some Ranger fans who like to move Zuccarello who is 29 years old - any good players here in Canucks in such a trade suggestion?

Canucks is my second team I root for in NHL - so it would be great if Zuci come here and I think he could help nucks to achieve a playoffs position for sure.

After I listen to the Canuck coach in this interview i`m positive that this team will reach playoffs with their current roster for sure: https://www.nhl.com/canucks/video/benning-desjardins-talk-camp/t-277437438/c-44797003

I think a better trading partner would be Anaheim. I brought this up in the trade forum and some fans felt like it was a fair trade. Rangers are missing a RHD, and hopefully with Vessey they'll have enough depth on wings to move a player of Zuccs caliber. I think Zucc for Vatanen would be ideal. Even though Vatanen was underwhelming for Finland this tourney (the entire Finland team did, but to their credit it was filled with lots of youth) he's still a great player that would fit nicely with the Rangers.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Ummm Taylor I don't think your clarification really changes the meaning of your quote.

well i mean it obviously changes the degree of resentment that he was communicating he feels

 

[Ori]

I think a better trading partner would be Anaheim. I brought this up in the trade forum and some fans felt like it was a fair trade. Rangers are missing a RHD, and hopefully with Vessey they'll have enough depth on wings to move a player of Zuccs caliber. I think Zucc for Vatanen would be ideal. Even though Vatanen was underwhelming for Finland this tourney (the entire Finland team did, but to their credit it was filled with lots of youth) he's still a great player that would fit nicely with the Rangers.

Yeah maybe, personally I doubt that they move him, but u never know for certain.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

 

[Verviticus]

well i mean it obviously changes the degree of resentment that he was communicating he feels

yeah, wtf? "bitter resentment" and "a bit of resentment" are very different things

 

[Canucks LB]

Trouba is available, I would do Olli Jolevi for Trouba in a heart beat, without thinking about it.

Both players have top 2 potential, but Trouba is a hell of a player, with a ton of upside.

 

[CloutierForVezina]

Ummm Taylor I don't think your clarification really changes the meaning of your quote.

What? Of course it does.

"I'm a little hungry" and "I'm ****ing starving" are completely different quotes.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

No goalies are extremely valuable, there's just an over saturated market of them. It's a supply and demand issue.

That makes them not valuable.