Speculation: Armchair GM Thread Version 974. Or, the boulevard of broken dreams

[Sparky93]

Remember how bad Scheifele was at 20? Most players don't break out until 21-23.

Our top 6 is already really good.

We have a legit #1C in Sean Monahan. A legit #2 in Backlund. If Bennett or Jankowski becomes a middle six center then we are laughing.

I see Bennetts floor as a 40 point 2 way center/ or a 50 point winger. Both of those things help us immensely more than Ryan Strome who has been a healthy scratch at points this season.

Well Strome has hit 50 points once already and Bennett was a healthy scratch, this year, probably should've been a couple more times.....but I get what you're saying. If some how he does reach his potential, it would be a bad deal.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Putting all the BS about trading the player with the single highest upside out of any of the 50+ players in our team's system away for pennies on the dollar, let's talk about real things:

1) What does Chiasson cost to re-sign? He's proven he's a very effective bottom six forward who can drive 5v5 play, is a strong penalty killer (arguably right there with our big three Bennett, Frolik, and Backlund), and despite some offensive shortcomings, is producing pretty reasonably well

2) What does Versteeg cost us? Or do we go back in the bargain bin? Iginla? How easy is it to find an offensively capable .5 PPG RHS winger (who doesn't cost 4.5M and tank every line that he's on)?

3) Is Stone deserving of pay as a top 4D or is he just a competent player who stylistically fits beside Brodie? One is worth a lot more than the other and as Rangers fans know it's easy to fall in love with a Marc Staal when he's playing with an Anton Stralman, but take away the Stralman and all you have is... Marc Staal at a ridiculous cap hit and term...

4) Is there any way we can fit a "Kessel to Pittsburgh" type onesided deal for a struggling RHS star forward in his prime for basically draft picks and B-prospects? Claude Giroux or soon-to-be-UFA Tyler Johnson? We really don't need a "young" RHS player... our team is pretty damn young between Janko/Chucky/Monny/Sammy/Dougie et al. We also no longer need this player to be a power forward with Ferland and Tkachuk in our top six... we need pure skill with some speed.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

The fact that Stone may have limitations to his game is a consideration you use in negotiations, but it should be irrelevant in bringing him back. The fact that he meshes well with Brodie is why you want him back, because he makes Brodie that much better and I've heard Burke make basically the same statement. Plus Stone fills holes, RHS, big, physical, has a canon, please re-sign this guy.

I want Chiasson back. Versteeg can go, give his spot to Klimchuk. I'd take Engelland back at the right price, if it's over 1.9, I'd go a different direction as well. If Stajan gets claimed, hello Janko. I still think Brouwer will get claimed and Lazar will be his replacement. Which is okay with, I think Lazar is a good fit with Bennett largely because he's a better skater. Brouwer is a better player right now, but Lazar has lots of room to grow and improve.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

The fact that Stone may have limitations to his game is a consideration you use in negotiations, but it should be irrelevant in bringing him back. The fact that he meshes well with Brodie is why you want him back, because he makes Brodie that much better and I've heard Burke make basically the same statement.

Oh, I'm totally in favor of bringing Stone back. Heck I was the guy suggesting we sign him in the off-season BEFORE we traded for him.

HOWEVER - the money has to make sense as Stone isn't a guy who, for instance could hold down a second pair if Brodie got hurt and every dollar he gets has an influence on the contracts of quite a few talented young forwards + Backlund that are due for raises.

How much of an upgrade is Stone for instance on what Andersson might be in two years? Stones simply the toughest player to guage value on because he so obviously fits. Basically "how much are you willing to overpay for a player who fits".

 

[Sparky93]

Putting all the BS about trading the player with the single highest upside out of any of the 50+ players in our team's system away for pennies on the dollar, let's talk about real things:

1) What does Chiasson cost to re-sign? He's proven he's a very effective bottom six forward who can drive 5v5 play, is a strong penalty killer (arguably right there with our big three Bennett, Frolik, and Backlund), and despite some offensive shortcomings, is producing pretty reasonably well

2) What does Versteeg cost us? Or do we go back in the bargain bin? Iginla? How easy is it to find an offensively capable .5 PPG RHS winger (who doesn't cost 4.5M and tank every line that he's on)?

3) Is Stone deserving of pay as a top 4D or is he just a competent player who stylistically fits beside Brodie? One is worth a lot more than the other and as Rangers fans know it's easy to fall in love with a Marc Staal when he's playing with an Anton Stralman, but take away the Stralman and all you have is... Marc Staal at a ridiculous cap hit and term...

4) Is there any way we can fit a "Kessel to Pittsburgh" type onesided deal for a struggling RHS star forward in his prime for basically draft picks and B-prospects? Claude Giroux or soon-to-be-UFA Tyler Johnson? We really don't need a "young" RHS player... our team is pretty damn young between Janko/Chucky/Monny/Sammy/Dougie et al. We also no longer need this player to be a power forward with Ferland and Tkachuk in our top six... we need pure skill with some speed.

I think Chiasson has been replaced with Lazar already, of coarse a lot hinges on Brouwer and whether we can upgrade Ferland.

Versteeg is Versteeg, I think this spot will be filled internally, with Janko, Shinkaruk or Klimchuk. I think it's important to realize Steeger's limitations and not over pay him.

Stone is a guy I'd like to see back, but for the right price, because I feel it is the skill set that makes it work, more so than the player. Under $4 million and I'd welcome him back with open arms.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Chiasson I absolutely want to keep which is a complete 180 for me.

Stone it has to make sense term and cap wise. Can't overpay or give too much term.

Versteeg similar to Stone.

Assuming we lose a forward to Vegas and don't keep Versteeg then I'd like to pickup a winger for sure.

While the idea of finding our Kessel is very attractive I though we decided a few pages back that the cap is gonna be difficult to do that.

 

[BurnEmUp]

3 x $3.5 million per would be perfect for Stone.

I also am hoping they can get Chiasson on a nice team friendly mutli-year deal. Something like 3 x $1.1 million per or something.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

3 x $3.5 million per would be perfect for Stone.

I also am hoping they can get Chiasson on a nice team friendly mutli-year deal. Something like 3 x $1.1 million per or something.

These would be solid.

I think we should try to get Sam Bennett under a long term contract this summer. At a lesser AAV. Doesn't seem something our management would do thoughZ

 

[MonyontheMoney]

Chiasson absolutely should be back.

I'm in favour of letting Versteeg walk in all honesty. I'm just happy we didn't sign him to a multi year deal early in the year like some wanted too.

I want Stone back, I was on board to sign him to a reasonable deal in FA. If he doesn't think our top dollar is reasonable, he can feel free to go elsewhere. The cost we paid at the deadline doesn't scream that we need to sign him any way we can.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Oh, I'm totally in favor of bringing Stone back. Heck I was the guy suggesting we sign him in the off-season BEFORE we traded for him.

HOWEVER - the money has to make sense as Stone isn't a guy who, for instance could hold down a second pair if Brodie got hurt and every dollar he gets has an influence on the contracts of quite a few talented young forwards + Backlund that are due for raises.

How much of an upgrade is Stone for instance on what Andersson might be in two years? Stones simply the toughest player to guage value on because he so obviously fits. Basically "how much are you willing to overpay for a player who fits".

I remember having a conversation with you talking about the offseason. Alzner was a big name being thrown around at the time and I see to recall us both mentioning Stone. I don't think he'll cost a fortune, I'm thinking 3 years @ 4 million per works for everyone.

 

[BurnEmUp]

Alzner would be better obviously, but Stone just fits our roster better.

For sure he will have a lower cap number, and his right hand shot is very important as well.

Alzner being a lefty, he'd be anchoring our 3rd pairing behind Gio and Brodie, and for $5+ million I guess that doesn't make a lot of sense, although the depth would be fantastic.

If we can get Stone signed to solidify the top two pairings, if we want an upgrade over Bartkowski on the left side of the 3rd pairing, might be a better idea to go out and kick tires on what the market would be like for guys like Kulikov and Smith.

Those guys will probably come in around a $3 million cap hit for 3 years or so? They'd really provide great depth in case of an injury to Brodie or Gio, and when the D core is healthy they'd really anchor the 3rd pairing well playing 17-19 minutes per night.

If those guys are too expensive, or looking to sign elsewhere, kicking tires on a older veteran might not be a terrible idea either. Daley, Oduya, and Seidenberg for instance.

Giordano (6.750) - Hamilton (5.750)
TJ Brodie (4.650) - M. Stone (3.500)
B. Smith (3.000) - Andersson (0.787)
Bartkowski (0.613)

Looks like a pretty solid D core to me.

Of course, if management is confident in a young guy coming in taking that spot where Brendan Smith is, then I'm all for it. Kulak, Wotherspoon, Kylington or even super long shots like Healey, AOM or Hickey. If one of the youngsters brings it, that would make me very happy.

 

[Lunatik]

I remember having a conversation with you talking about the offseason. Alzner was a big name being thrown around at the time and I see to recall us both mentioning Stone. I don't think he'll cost a fortune, I'm thinking 3 years @ 4 million per works for everyone.

He started a thread on the mainboard claiming Stone was a 5-6 defenseman. So if you both wanted Stone it was for VERY different reasons.

 

[Volica]

I personally think Bartkowski & Kulak will fight out for 3LD and I think Andersson should likely get the 3RD spot.

Chiasson deserves another contract. I'd have no issues with giving him ~1mil to be a stabilizing RW depth. I really like him when he's not being shoehorned into the top line. Even then, I think he's a guy that can play up the lineup depending on injuries, just a good guy to have on the roster.

Versteeg, if Calgary could have LV kindly take Brouwer off our hands; I'd be more than happy to bring back as PP/depth scoring role. I have no issues with him making around 1-1.5 million in a depth role like that. Stone I'd want back; I don't think anyone will be lining up to pay the guy 4x4 or anything, would give Calgary a good chance at getting a 3x4 or 3x3.5 deal done.

Brouwer needs to go, Engelland needs to walk, Wideman clearly needs to walk... Other than that, our Roster fills itself.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Ferland
Tkachuk - Backlund - Frolik
Versteeg - Bennett - Chiasson
Jankowski - Stajan - X (Bouma, or whatever)

Giordano - Hamilton
Brodie - Stone
Kulak - Andersson
Bartkowski

 

[Flames Fanatic]

We've been so blessed with very few injuries this year. I'd really like another top nine forward just for injury insurance.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

He started a thread on the mainboard claiming Stone was a 5-6 defenseman. So if you both wanted Stone it was for VERY different reasons.

Yeah he's easily #4 imo. I like Engelland, but you can see the difference between the 2. 1 is a top 4, the other is a bottom pairing. Stone in all honesty is probably a #3 on a lot of teams.

 

[Lunatik]

We've been so blessed with very few injuries this year. I'd really like another top nine forward just for injury insurance.

Honestly, we don't need more top 9 forwards, we need more top 6 forwards and I think it can be achieved from within. We only have 5 right now IMO, but on the flip side I think we have 5 third liners (Ferland, Brouwer, Versteeg, Bennett and Chiasson) and one 3rd/4th line tweener in Stajan. I'm not sure what we have in Lazar, hopefully he adds to the group of third liners but for the time being I will consider him and Bouma 4th liners, but obviously management expects more than that given what they paid to acquire him. I also think Jankowski is ready to step into the 3C role.

I know I'm sounding like a broken record here and beating a dead horse when I do it, but I would like to see Bennett on the wing, I think if he is moved there he could be a top 6 forward as soon as next year.

I would like to see Tkachuk used on the right side next year, he's played RW in junior and I think he has the IQ and hands to play with Monahan and Gaudreau. This would open up the 2LW spot for Bennett to slip into like it was a DM.

Ferland could move back to the LW to play with Jankowski and one of Brouwer/Chiasson/Lazar, depending what happens in expansion and the preseason. The remaining guy(s) could be used on the 4th line with Stajan and Bouma if they are not lost to expansion.

 

[viper0220]

If Vegas takes Brouwer, it will be the best thing for this franchise.

 

[BurnEmUp]

If Brouwer is the biggest problem facing this team moving forward, then we are in fine shape.

You bring back Stone for $4 million max
You fill both goalie spots for $6 million max

And you are bringing back basically the same team (minus Engelland and Versteeg) that has been one of the top teams in the league since November 15th, and you've still probably got $3-5 million in cap space left over.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Yeah he's easily #4 imo. I like Engelland, but you can see the difference between the 2. 1 is a top 4, the other is a bottom pairing. Stone in all honesty is probably a #3 on a lot of teams.

Stone circa December (when I made that thread) was struggling paired with Goligoski (a decent #2/#3). Now I didn't know he was recovering from injury at the time but I have always liked his defensive game (never realized his point shot was so reliable though, always thought it was just a case of bad team --> ice time). I don't think I'm alone in that assessment at that time however, as two months later all UFA Stone returned was a 3rd round pick. If Stone were playing for the Coyotes like he has for Calgary he could probably have returned a first+.

I think he's okay as a #4, but in the Kris Russell sense where if he's your #4 beside a #1 like OEL or Brodie he's fine but shouldn't be asked to carry bottom pair type guys in injury situations. Remember that 4 million was pretty much the money the Flames supposedly offered Russell when he was playing in our top 4, so it's not like I'm overrated Russell to make a point here. Obviously Stone's ability to break up the cycle of guys like Kesler and Getzlaf is going to be more valuable / less redundant than Russell's ability to check guys like Eberle and Kane so Stone is a better fit here.

As far as a #3, I see Jeff Petry (5.5M) as a prototypical #3 and I think Stone is a tier below that.

 

[Calculon]

Gaudreau - Monahan - Ferland
Tkachuk - Backlund - Frolik
Versteeg - Bennett - Chiasson
Jankowski - Stajan - X (Bouma, or whatever)

Giordano - Hamilton
Brodie - Stone
Kulak - Andersson
Bartkowski

Outside of Versteeg, I largely like this roster. I think Klimchuk or Mangiapane could replace what Versteeg does at even strength, while Bennett (and/or Iginla ) would more than replace him on the powerplay.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Ferland
Tkachuk - Backlund - Frolik
Mangiapane - Bennett - Iginla
Stajan - Jankowski - Chiasson
Hathaway/Hamilton/Bouma

Giordano - Hamilton
Brodie - Stone
Kulak - Andersson
Bartkowski

Wouldn't be the worst thing if Versteeg returned but it shouldn't be an early July priority. Basically, if in training camp it's obvious that neither Klimchuk nor Mangiapane (or anyone else) are ready, then they can look at re-signing Versteeg to stop-gap another season.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

From what Coyote fans were saying Stone was pretty bad this year but really turned it around a few weeeks before the trade.

Steal of a deal by Treliving.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

OKG, I don't think Stone is a high end #3, ideally he slots in as a 4. But I don't think it's the end of the world if he is #3. He's a fine skater, hes an "okay" passer and has a great point shot as a weapon. That said, 35 pts is probably a career season and I think he's usually going to be in that 25-30pt range. Where I like him is down low, he has the size to handle the players you mentioned and he does this job extremely well making him a quality defender. Again, I like him best as a #4, the deployment is the basically the same as a #3 (I also think he can and should be used on a PP), but it all comes down to depth. I really like him paired with Brodie.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Outside of Versteeg, I largely like this roster. I think Klimchuk or Mangiapane could replace what Versteeg does at even strength, while Bennett (and/or Iginla ) would more than replace him on the powerplay.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Ferland
Tkachuk - Backlund - Frolik
Mangiapane - Bennett - Iginla
Stajan - Jankowski - Chiasson
Hathaway/Hamilton/Bouma

Giordano - Hamilton
Brodie - Stone
Kulak - Andersson
Bartkowski

Wouldn't be the worst thing if Versteeg returned but it shouldn't be an early July priority. Basically, if in training camp it's obvious that neither Klimchuk nor Mangiapane (or anyone else) are ready, then they can look at re-signing Versteeg to stop-gap another season.

Agreed with that roster for the most part. I also think Bartkowski would look a lot better with a puck mover, as he's not much of a puck mover but has some strengths. His best hockey was played as Johnny Boychuck's partner.

Re: Mangiapane though: I think Dube will surprise us and force the Flames hand for a 9 game stint at the very least. Dube-Bennett-Iginla

 

[Sparky93]

I personally think Bartkowski & Kulak will fight out for 3LD and I think Andersson should likely get the 3RD spot.

Chiasson deserves another contract. I'd have no issues with giving him ~1mil to be a stabilizing RW depth. I really like him when he's not being shoehorned into the top line. Even then, I think he's a guy that can play up the lineup depending on injuries, just a good guy to have on the roster.

Versteeg, if Calgary could have LV kindly take Brouwer off our hands; I'd be more than happy to bring back as PP/depth scoring role. I have no issues with him making around 1-1.5 million in a depth role like that. Stone I'd want back; I don't think anyone will be lining up to pay the guy 4x4 or anything, would give Calgary a good chance at getting a 3x4 or 3x3.5 deal done.

Brouwer needs to go, Engelland needs to walk, Wideman clearly needs to walk... Other than that, our Roster fills itself.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Ferland
Tkachuk - Backlund - Frolik
Versteeg - Bennett - Chiasson
Jankowski - Stajan - X (Bouma, or whatever)

Giordano - Hamilton
Brodie - Stone
Kulak - Andersson
Bartkowski

There not much of chance of a Kulak-Andersson 3rd pairing next year, IMO. It'll be one of the two, paired with a cheap vet.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Andersson making this team is going to depend on his fitness results. He's obviously got the IQ but if he's not in good enough shape he won't make it.