Speculation: Armchair GM Thread: Post your terrible ideas here!

[OvermanKingGainer]

Thats one of the softest defenses right there, no push back, no mean streak, no nothing. If you let Engelland go (and I think you have to), you need to bring someone with physical presence back.

No one half-decent last year had a Deryk Engelland except us, for a reason, and our 3rd pair was half the reason we lost the first round. Your defense has to be able to play hockey, at a high enough level that a pairing can't be exposed and attacked.

A defense with Hamilton, Giordano, Stone, and Brodie is by no means soft in the elements that actually matter (winning stick battles, clearing the front of the net, taking hits to make plays, preventing zone entries with body positioning).

Toughness / Mean Streak / Physical Presence?

Unless you've got a plan for acquiring Radko Gudas or Josh Manson, you're no more soft than ANY other playoff team. In fact Manson is the only such competent guy left in this year's top 4 and he's a unicorn.

The best defense left in the playoffs is by far the Predators and they don't waste their time with Engelland types.

Sometimes people let their imaginations rule their perception.

 

[Body Checker]

Bartkowski would make for an acceptable popcorn eating 7th defenceman but given Guluztan's fanboyism of absolutely awful depth (although every coach seems to have this problem), Treliving might just have to waive him.

No way Engelland should be brought back in any capacity. He's not a 15+ minute defencemen; he's not capable of defending against elite talent. He's 35 but he's still going to want a multi-year contract and it would be silly of Calgary to assume that risk. If the Flames can't do better than Bartkowski-Engelland next season there's something very wrong here.

Ideally the Flames would stop thinking they're the smartest guys in the room and start adopting practices that other organizations have shown to work, i.e., actually graduating deserving prospects, pairing the rookie with all star number one defenceman instead of the old, declining, all around terrible veteran and expecting miracles.

Brodie-Stone
Giordano-Andersson
Kulak/Wotherspoon-Hamilton
Wotherspoon/Kulak

If everyone lives up to their potential, that's Nashville/Anaheim deep and it plays to Guluztan's "roll the lines" mentality. Brodie and Stone take the hard matches a la the Vlasic/Hjalmarsson pairings in San Jose/Chicago leaving the other two with easier minutes. And if Giordano is really the number one defenceman everything thinks he is, he shouldn't have a problem playing with a highly skilled rookie and still excelling.

Frankly, this is the only way I can see the Flames graduating two young defencemen at the same time. Because there's no way they give an entire pairing to "unproven" players; they just don't have enough dry pants for that.

I agree with this post - Grossman instead of Wotherspoon, Bartowski instead of Kulak.........the Flames for years seem to have this aversion to youth

 

[Fig]

McIlrath isn't an NHL player

Thoughts on Dotchin?

Purely based on stat watching, it seems Dotchin has a knack for making good passes and accumulated some assists. Young guy, big, RHD... He's also had some interesting PIM numbers, angry HF threads about cheap shots, but I'm not sure about his physical game.

 

[BigRangy]

Thoughts on Dotchin?

Purely based on stat watching, it seems Dotchin has a knack for making good passes and accumulated some assists. Young guy, big, RHD... He's also had some interesting PIM numbers, angry HF threads about cheap shots, but I'm not sure about his physical game.

Dotchin would be absolutely unavailable

Tampa needs their youth, they're not going to trade him

 

[Fig]

I agree with this post - Grossman instead of Wotherspoon, Bartowski instead of Kulak.........the Flames for years seem to have this aversion to youth

There's other good examples, but those ones are poor.

1. Bartkowski is for meeting expansion criteria.
2. Grossmann was for maximizing LTIR.

Here's what I think.

Kulak and TSpoon are not of the skill to drag Eggs or Wideman around. Grossman was a paper move. Why TSpoon and Kulak were not able to outplay him is beyond me. Unless it was a AHL>Bottom pairing situation/pressbox.

Bartkowski came in middle of year. TSpoon AND Kulak somehow aren't above him on the bottom pairing LHD. Is it AHL>Bottom pairing situation/pressbox? Or are they not good enough?

Then there's a point 3.

3. BOTH Kulak and TSpoon were halted at NHL game 30. IIRC, this threshold affects the RFA/UFA status of the two players.

Why retain that part?

 

[Lunatik]

Thoughts on Dotchin?

Purely based on stat watching, it seems Dotchin has a knack for making good passes and accumulated some assists. Young guy, big, RHD... He's also had some interesting PIM numbers, angry HF threads about cheap shots, but I'm not sure about his physical game.

I know nothing about him.

 

[Skobel24]

Thoughts on Dotchin?

Purely based on stat watching, it seems Dotchin has a knack for making good passes and accumulated some assists. Young guy, big, RHD... He's also had some interesting PIM numbers, angry HF threads about cheap shots, but I'm not sure about his physical game.

I know absolutely nothing about him, but he's a complete bust, and he'd never be a good fit here

 

[BigRangy]

There's other good examples, but those ones are poor.

1. Bartkowski is for meeting expansion criteria.
2. Grossmann was for maximizing LTIR.

Here's what I think.

Kulak and TSpoon are not of the skill to drag Eggs or Wideman around. Grossman was a paper move. Why TSpoon and Kulak were not able to outplay him is beyond me. Unless it was a AHL>Bottom pairing situation/pressbox.

Bartkowski came in middle of year. TSpoon AND Kulak somehow aren't above him on the bottom pairing LHD. Is it AHL>Bottom pairing situation/pressbox? Or are they not good enough?

Then there's a point 3.

3. BOTH Kulak and TSpoon were halted at NHL game 30. IIRC, this threshold affects the RFA/UFA status of the two players.

Why retain that part?

If the Flames only wanted Bartkowski for expansion they wouldn't have played him in the playoffs when roster restrictions were lifted.

The organization has shown time and time again that they have no concept of how a bottom 6 and bottom pairing should work. To stay there, you should need to be either a good player or one with upside. The Bolligs, Grossmans, and Bartkowskis of the world should not be playing NHL games for this team outside of dire injury situations at any time.

If you're going to have someone drag your team down, you must absolutely have it be someone who can learn from the experience and get better so that they can help your team in the future.

 

[Lunatik]

There's other good examples, but those ones are poor.

1. Bartkowski is for meeting expansion criteria.
2. Grossmann was for maximizing LTIR.

Here's what I think.

Kulak and TSpoon are not of the skill to drag Eggs or Wideman around. Grossman was a paper move. Why TSpoon and Kulak were not able to outplay him is beyond me. Unless it was a AHL>Bottom pairing situation/pressbox.

Bartkowski came in middle of year. TSpoon AND Kulak somehow aren't above him on the bottom pairing LHD. Is it AHL>Bottom pairing situation/pressbox? Or are they not good enough?

Then there's a point 3.

3. BOTH Kulak and TSpoon were halted at NHL game 30. IIRC, this threshold affects the RFA/UFA status of the two players.

Why retain that part?

Point 3 makes no difference, both will be eligible to be UFAs at 27. The 40 game threshold only matters for 18 and 19 year olds, for example Tkachuk will be eligible to be a UFA after 7 seasons rather than waiting until he is 27.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Why TSpoon and Kulak were not able to outplay him is beyond me. Unless it was a AHL>Bottom pairing situation/pressbox.

They did outplay him. Our coach is just delusional since he had Grossmann in Dallas.

Bartkowski came in middle of year. TSpoon AND Kulak somehow aren't above him on the bottom pairing LHD. Is it AHL>Bottom pairing situation/pressbox? Or are they not good enough?

They are. Our coach is just delusional since he had Bart in Vancouver.

There's nothing more to be said other than "our coach trusts players he's had before over players that are better".

You can tack Engelland onto that list, as Gulutzan coached Engelland in Las Vegas.

Which is kind of scary going forward as we are trying to get better and these kind of former-player biases are of no benefit to the team. It took Ferland more than half the season to get past Chiasson(and Brouwer) on Gulutzan's depth chart despite outplaying both since Day 1. And that's with Ferland already being an established NHLer.

 

[MonyontheMoney]

Ron Hainsey could be a decent option. I want to say he's only making ~2.5m now. Could potentially come cheaper and on a one year deal.

Admittedly didn't watch many Carolina games, but he's looked decent in the playoffs.

As much as I like all of Kulak, Wotherspoon and Andersson, I think that's just too much inexperience for Treliving to bite on having them 5-7.

Giordano-Hamilton
Brodie-Stone
Kulak-Hainsey
Wotherspoon

Doesn't look bad to me, provide Hainsey is on a one year deal at a reasonable price. It's a shame Hainsey is a LHS, but I think it's known I'm not one who thinks that is the be all end all. Besides, I'm with Brodie, playing RD as a LHS is easier.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

I'd rather have Nakladal at minimum contract.

Giordano-Hamilton
Brodie-Stone
Kulak-Nakladal
Wotherspoon

And we know from history that Wotherspoon/Kulak have strong chemistry with Nakladal.

 

[Calculon]

Yeah, a coach preferring the veteran player that they have a history with over the rookie they barely know doesn't mean the former is automatically better than the latter. That's just a lazy appeal to authority. Especially when it comes to the Flames, e.g. Moss as the first line centre, Comeau as the first line centre, Butler as a top pairing defenceman, etc.

I could see Treliving exploring moving the first plus some combination of cheap replacement players like Wotherspoon/MacDonald/Rittich/Shinkaruk to McPhee for Petrovic/Pysyk+Raanta/Grubauer. Granted, it'd leave the Flames with zero picks in the first three rounds but at they'd be getting young players with upside albeit missing the whole ELC part.

That's if Treliving & Gulutzan don't see Andersson as ready (which is unfortunately, probably a given).

Although my preference remains drafting Suzuki, promoting Andersson and giving up other pieces for Raanta.

 

[FLAMES666]

Its kind of funny reading through some of these comments how little respect people give Engelland and what he has actually done for this team the last 3 years. I would bring him back for sure to play on the 3rd pair on a cheap deal.

 

[BigRangy]

Its kind of funny reading through some of these comments how little respect people give Engelland and what he has actually done for this team the last 3 years. I would bring him back for sure to play on the 3rd pair on a cheap deal.

Engelland was completely terrible year 1. Just awful.

He turned his game around completely in year 2 and 3, but the hate from that first year of suck took a long time to dissipate. He is a passable #5 who just had the best season of his career at 35 (which says a lot about his commitment to staying a good player). The thing with Engelland is that you can't really use him to insulate a bad #6, so you essentially need two #5s. I don't know if Kulak or Wotherspoon with him for a full year would be a real NHL bottom pair, but it would certainly be better than the complete disaster that was this year's pairings.

I personally think Andersson is ready for prime-time with Brodie or Giordano and that Stone is a better player than Engelland in that #3RD spot but Engelland coming back would not be the end of the world.

Gio-Doug
Brodie-Stone
Kulak-Engelland
Wotherspoon

with Rasmus in the AHL would work and give Rasmus just a little more seasoning. Definitely better insured against injury too.

 

[Dertell]

Its kind of funny reading through some of these comments how little respect people give Engelland and what he has actually done for this team the last 3 years. I would bring him back for sure to play on the 3rd pair on a cheap deal.

Agreed. Without him our top 6 would've been pretty dreadful last year.

 

[Johnny GODreau]

Just a hunch but I think Hainsey stays in Pittsburgh or goes to New York.

 

[Lunatik]

Its kind of funny reading through some of these comments how little respect people give Engelland and what he has actually done for this team the last 3 years. I would bring him back for sure to play on the 3rd pair on a cheap deal.

It's always the same vocal minority. They are either apart of the younger is always better, the corsi cult, the ones that always cry about coaching/management or the ones to obsessed with cap hit. None of them are worth even taking seriously.

 

[InfinityIggy]

It's always the same vocal minority. They are either apart of the younger is always better, the corsi cult, the ones that always cry about coaching/management or the ones to obsessed with cap hit. None of them are worth even taking seriously.

He's a bottom pairing D over the age of 24, that's pretty much why. We saw the same thing with Butler.

 

[Lunatik]

He's a bottom pairing D over the age of 24, that's pretty much why. We saw the same thing with Butler.

Yeah we did, it's stupid. On no planet is Kulak, Wotherspoon or Nakladal a better option than Engelland

 

[MonyontheMoney]

Just a hunch but I think Hainsey stays in Pittsburgh or goes to New York.

I could see Pittsburgh, especially if they lose Maata in the expansion draft. If he hits the market though, I'd certainly explore that.

 

[HAKAN LOOB]

He's a bottom pairing D over the age of 24, that's pretty much why. We saw the same thing with Butler.

Butler was actually good on the penalty kill.

 

[FLAMES666]

Engelland was completely terrible year 1. Just awful.

Was that the year we made playoffs and he stepped up to play with Brodie when Gio went down. They were probably our best D pair down the stretch and into the playoffs. Ya don't think he was awful.

 

[Lunatik]

Was that the year we made playoffs and he stepped up to play with Brodie when Gio went down. They were probably our best D pair down the stretch and into the playoffs. Ya don't think he was awful.

Didn't you know? He's older than 24 and overpaid, so he is complete and utter garbage.

 

[Sparky93]

I'm telling you Ben Chiarot, 26, still improving and can somewhat replace Engelland's physicality. 12 points and a plus 2, in 59 games for the Jets this year and an RFA.