Player Discussion: Andrew Copp, the unsung hero

[Calcutta]

I'd like to see him go to Seattle, we get a pick or whatever, he gets his payday and a good crack at being a 2C. No doubt Seattle are going to end up with some wildcard picks and having someone reliable like Copp down the middle could help them out.
As with Roslovic there just will never be the opportunity for him in Winnipeg.

 

[kanadalainen]

A Copp trade probably works for everyone involved. He's not quite top 6 material, but I can see him getting a 2C role on some teams. He's got leadership, work ethic, etc. Seattle might try and trade for him as he's young enough to be safely signed for a few years and veteran enough to wear a letter. Wouldn't lose him for nothing though, so should probably trade ahead of the XD.

Personally I'd rather keep Copp over Lowry (to compare similarly deployed guys), but I think this org is going to keep Lowry long-term.

CBJ come to mind.... they are blowing tumbleweeds at centre. But (and this is a big but) they wouldn't give up any decent D men.

 

[scelaton]

Its time to give Andrew Copp and his future some serious thought.

He earned some top 6 time earlier this year and performed well. His scoring was understandably higher than his usual, more TOI, more skilled line-mates. But now he is back on the 3rd line and continuing to score at a top 6 pace. 12-18-30 in 39 games. That is a 63 pt pace. He hasn't surrendered much, if any defensive play to do it. He plays on PK1 and PP2. He is a perfectly competent centre as well as LW and could probably handle RW quite well too.

A little while ago I put him forward as the logical one to lose in the XD, based on the assumption that he will go to UFA ASAP. We would only have him for 1 more year. But that would still be very poor value, poor asset management, unless Seattle gave us something pretty damn good for us to expose him.

I think the first option should be to keep him, if possible. The questions are, will he sign here if he is offered the right contract, or is he set on going UFA? If he can be kept here, what will it cost? Will that be too much? Knowing who his agent is, I expect him to make the most of this career season. Are we willing to pay for several years of '21 Copp and get several years of '20 Copp? I've been thinking 4x4 would be fair. Maybe it should rise to 4x4.5. But Overcharge may be able to get 5 or 6 years at 5 mil or more. Or believe he can, which is what matters.

The season he is having may just be pricing him too high, or too long, or both. If that is the case, I don't think we should hang on to him as an own rental for 1 year. For one thing, that would mean exposing Apples to Seattle. Lose Apples and then a year later lose Copp. So, either let Seattle pay up and take him, or trade him to some other team. He would be "coach's porn" to Barry Trotz and I think Lou would like him too. Maybe we could put together a package that would spring one of their top 2 RHD. That may be wishful thinking, but we could make a pretty strong offer.

Regardless of which approach we take, we need to acknowledge that Copp has elevated himself to a higher tier. We need to value him accordingly and take some action.

This is going to be one of the most difficult files for Chevy this off-season. I'd love to sign Copp long-term for a reasonable middle-6 AAV because his skill set and leadership are what championship teams are made of.
The Leafs are paying >40M in AAV to 4 forwards. We are paying ~ 28M to Sheif, Wheeler, Ehlers and Connor, and shed a potential $10M albatross in Laine.
The difference between the two teams' salary structures now allows to at least consider retaining PLD, Copp and Lowry IF--and it's a big if--they are willing to buy in to a team-friendly AAV, perhaps mitigated by a longer contract duration.

 

[DRW204]

Copp is substance over style. he doesn't play a flashy or "sexy" game, but has put up good individual production while in a top-6 role, and the line produces better as a whole.

 

[Upperdeckjet]

I do like Copp, but I am in the camp of converting his value, which is going to be at an all time high.

There are young guys pushing from below and the 4-5 million per year he deserves, is much needed to shore up our backend.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I'd like to see him go to Seattle, we get a pick or whatever, he gets his payday and a good crack at being a 2C. No doubt Seattle are going to end up with some wildcard picks and having someone reliable like Copp down the middle could help them out.
As with Roslovic there just will never be the opportunity for him in Winnipeg.

IIRC, Vegas was guaranteed no lower than a #6 draft spot in their first regular draft. They wouldn't give up that for Copp, but how much might we have to add to Copp to get that pick? Not sure this is even practical, but it might be. The top of this draft is dominated by good Dmen.

We would be losing Copp + whatever we have to add, to draft a very good Dman who is not going to be NHL ready for a year or two. So not a win now move. That alone might be enough to rule it out, but it is worth thinking about.

 

[kylbaz]

Copp has always been a meh player and this forum loved him. Funny how the tune has changed and he's probably been playing better than he has in the past.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

CBJ come to mind.... they are blowing tumbleweeds at centre. But (and this is a big but) they wouldn't give up any decent D men.

Copp + Samberg +
for Werenski
How big does that + have to be?

Or make it Copp + Stanley +

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

This is going to be one of the most difficult files for Chevy this off-season. I'd love to sign Copp long-term for a reasonable middle-6 AAV because his skill set and leadership are what championship teams are made of.
The Leafs are paying >40M in AAV to 4 forwards. We are paying ~ 28M to Sheif, Wheeler, Ehlers and Connor, and shed a potential $10M albatross in Laine.
The difference between the two teams' salary structures now allows to at least consider retaining PLD, Copp and Lowry IF--and it's a big if--they are willing to buy in to a team-friendly AAV, perhaps mitigated by a longer contract duration.

I don't think PLD should be on your 'if' list. He will be retained if at all possible. Lowry will need a raise, but I hope it won't be too large. Copp is a ? on several levels. But keeping him would be the best result - big IF he doesn't cost too much. There is a very good chance he uses this outstanding season to get overpaid for the rest of his career.

I don't like comparing to Leafs. They have a very short window. They can spend actual money like it was going out of style. And it remains to be seen if they can make it work.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I do like Copp, but I am in the camp of converting his value, which is going to be at an all time high.

There are young guys pushing from below and the 4-5 million per year he deserves, is much needed to shore up our backend.

The bolded. He is going to cash in. Maybe we can too.

 

[scelaton]

I don't think PLD should be on your 'if' list. He will be retained if at all possible. Lowry will need a raise, but I hope it won't be too large. Copp is a ? on several levels. But keeping him would be the best result - big IF he doesn't cost too much. There is a very good chance he uses this outstanding season to get overpaid for the rest of his career.

I don't like comparing to Leafs. They have a very short window. They can spend actual money like it was going out of style. And it remains to be seen if they can make it work.

Sounds like a pretty iffy distinction on your part

In all seriousness though, the Jets have a chance to extend PLD as early as this summer, but will only do so if he agrees to an AAV that won't preclude the building of a championship calibre team, with depth. That is the link with Copp.

 

[badi]

I think he will receive an offer of 5 years 4,5m per .....
The BIG question is will he accept ?

 

[DRW204]

I think he will receive an offer of 5 years 4,5m per .....
The BIG question is will he accept ?

depends on his fiance

 

[sipowicz]

Through hard work and determination Copp has made himself into a solid NHL player that any team would love to have!

Congrats Andrew, you get the Sip seal of approval!

 

[winnipegger]

I remember his very first practice. Ahhh how they grow up.

 

[DRW204]

I do like Copp, but I am in the camp of converting his value, which is going to be at an all time high.

There are young guys pushing from below and the 4-5 million per year he deserves, is much needed to shore up our backend.

who are the young guys pushing at him below that are better, or will be better than him in a year or 2? other than perhaps Perfetti i don't see anyone. Isn't copp one of the team leaders in GAR over the last couple years?

 

[Jack7222]

Have to wonder how this team would look if we lost Copp, Perreault and Demelo. I think these are three guys that are quietly helping the team more than some think.

 

[DRW204]

Have to wonder how this team would look if we lost Copp, Perreault and Demelo. I think these are three guys that are quietly helping the team more than some think.

we aren't losing all 3 to the xD, if that's what you're referring too.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Sounds like a pretty iffy distinction on your part

In all seriousness though, the Jets have a chance to extend PLD as early as this summer, but will only do so if he agrees to an AAV that won't preclude the building of a championship calibre team, with depth. That is the link with Copp.

Yup, agree there are some 'ifs'. When are there not? But I think PLD belongs in the group of core players who will be around long term. I fully expect him to be extended this off-season. But if he demands too much AAV he will need to play another year to prove that he is worth it. My impression of him is that there won't be a problem signing him. I'm not sure what the number will be, but I expect 7 or 8 years.

Of course I could be sadly mistaken. He may not want to stay here, or he may want unreasonable money. He doesn't come across as that type though.

 

[Upperdeckjet]

who are the young guys pushing at him below that are better, or will be better than him in a year or 2? other than perhaps Perfetti i don't see anyone. Isn't copp one of the team leaders in GAR over the last couple years?

Harkins, Ves, Gus and Perfetti come to mind immediately. It's not only about one player being better. It's about the natural and necessary turnover that occurs as non-core players price themselves out of their existing market. This is a good thing, both for Copp and the growth of the team.

I do not see Copp as an enduring top 6 on our team and if we sign Lowry (as I hope we do), we simply can't afford Copp on the 3rd line. I expect Chevy will know what to do.

 

[DRW204]

Harkins, Ves, Gus and Perfetti come to mind immediately. It's not only about one player being better. It's about the natural and necessary turnover that occurs as non-core players price themselves out of their existing market. This is a good thing, both for Copp and the growth of the team.

I do not see Copp as an enduring top 6 on our team and if we sign Lowry (as I hope we do), we simply can't afford Copp on the 3rd line. I expect Chevy will know what to do.

if it came down to it, and had to chose between the two at the same dollar figure and term, i think id chose copp over lowry. but the org likely thinks different.

 

[Upperdeckjet]

With Wheeler out and Copp elevated, he is about to turn into our Willy Wonka golden ticket and get us our top four RD. If he is able to pick up around 10 more points this year, wow, his value will be through the roof. Go Copper Go!

 

[DRW204]

Looking at some stats/on-ice measures of Copp given the recent signing..... didn't realize how strongly he rates on the PK



it'll be interesting to see what role he is in this year. He doesn't have a top-6er skill-set however, he was one of the better producers when in the top-6, & our main top-6 Cs (Scheifele and Stastny) saw a boost in the shot/chance share w/ him. he's a substance-over-style player imo..... the Copp-Stastny-Ehlers line was absolutely dynamite. Our best line combo this past year (by far?). 3.46 EV P/60 for Copp while on that line. they did Score at a high rate (sustainable?), but did control the shot/chance share pretty strongly (56 CF%, 62 xGF%). He and Ehlers worked V well together, & Stastny does his usual thing at C. He had 1.9 ev p/60 with scheifele too (playing with an array of linemates on the other wing). Personally would like to see Copp-Stastny-Ehlers again.

overall, his scoring efficiency wasn't far off his career norm (outside the PP). he was great in the top-6, but evidently the higher proportion of his overall TOI was playing bottom-6 with Lowry, which evidently drags his overall efficiency down (~1.6 ev points/60 with lowry).

looking at PP... PP2 was better than PP1. He and Ehlers ran show, probably mostly Ehlers, but Copp was hella productive in his first-extended look on the PP in his career. i doubt he will be the 14th most efficient goal-scorer on the PP (goals/60) - min. of 1.5mins/pp toi per gp......or be the 10th most efficient shooter in the league at 26% (min of 10 shots/60). But could be wrong , like i said first extended look, and was paired with our best player.

 

[DRW204]

55 pt pace.
16th in the entire NHL for Fwds ATOI.

he is going to get paid.

 

[kylbaz]

55 pt pace.
16th in the entire NHL for Fwds ATOI.

he is going to get paid.

Yep and not by us. Although he shows a lot of skill, more than I thought he had (as @MrBoJangelz71 also bumped my post from april where I said he's a 'meh' player), I still think he's a support piece with good talent and not a line driver like a team will probably end up paying him to be. Maybe it's because I never been really high on him, I just don't see him putting up great numbers without playing with high level talent. Saying that, how he played yesterday is the exact opposite of that, he looks like the line driver and not the support guy.