Andreas Athanasiou

[Frk It]

Please, tell me how the Wings have handled AA SO terribly.

He's had games where he slacks. He's faced benching because of it. He has clear holes in his game right now. If he were fantastic and consistent, the Wings would pay him 4M+ and be thrilled about it. However, for as much skill as he has, he's also got a long way to go to be a consistent, complete player.

Teams "play hardball" with RFAs all the damn time. A couple super exceptions in McDavid, Draisaitl, Klefbom, Johansen, etc. don't change that. Teams have leverage on RFAs and it is beyond stupid to not get the best deal you can.

Right this second, there is no team in the league running to trade a second round pick for and extend AA on a 3.2M bridge deal. He simply is not worth it with the consistency issues he's shown.

It honestly makes me angry to read "Oh, that team, they're so horrible to this player" when what they're doing is literally par for the ****ing course when dealing with an erstwhile skilled player who is good but not elite. The Wings haven't done anything untoward with AA or Mantha, for that matter.

He's not unsigned because we're playing hardball, he's unsigned because we don't have cap space. We don't have cap space because of bad cap management.

 

[njx9]

Please, tell me how the Wings have handled AA SO terribly.

He's had games where he slacks. He's faced benching because of it. He has clear holes in his game right now. If he were fantastic and consistent, the Wings would pay him 4M+ and be thrilled about it. However, for as much skill as he has, he's also got a long way to go to be a consistent, complete player.

*shrug* If I'm AA and I see Sheahan's TOI not getting cut to 6 minutes (or getting scratched), and I see Helm getting a long term deal for too much money, and I see Abbie getting a career length contract for too much money, and I see Nielsen getting a crazy offer, I'm going to be a bit miffed when the team benches me instantly for minor issues, when my coach appears to be an utter failure at developing players, and when I get jerked around on my contract for a couple hundred K because the team needed to add a bottom line player and a mediocre-to-bad defenseman.

I don't care if the team thinks this is how you turn a guy from a potential top line scorer into a two-way middle sixer. I don't care if they're right. If I'm the player, I'm not going to be happy about any of that. The double standards, the utter failure to identify and reward actual talent? I wouldn't be expecting $4m, but I'd certainly be expecting to get more ice time than some of the no-future-trash that get to play with no negative repercussions whatsoever on this team, and I'd hope I'd get paid before garbage like Witkowski.

 

[Ezekial]

He's not unsigned because we're playing hardball, he's unsigned because we don't have cap space. We don't have cap space because of bad cap management.

Can't we be 10% over cap in the off-season? If that's the case he could be signed right now and still have a million to spare.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

He's not unsigned because we're playing hardball, he's unsigned because we don't have cap space. We don't have cap space because of bad cap management.

You can be up to 10% over the cap for the summer, So we can still sign him but it sounds like Holland wants to try and clear some cap first though.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Can't we be 10% over cap in the off-season? If that's the case he could be signed right now and still have a million to spare.

Yup so we can still sign AA and worry about being over later, AA wont get more then $1.5 million to $2 million on a two year bridge deal any ways.

 

[Frk It]

Can't we be 10% over cap in the off-season? If that's the case he could be signed right now and still have a million to spare.

From what I understand we are already roughly 4 million over, and don't want to go over by an amount that exceeds what will come off when Franzen goes to LTIR.

Regardless... literally every article I have seen says he is unsigned because of cap reasons.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

*shrug* If I'm AA and I see Sheahan's TOI not getting cut to 6 minutes (or getting scratched), and I see Helm getting a long term deal for too much money, and I see Abbie getting a career length contract for too much money, and I see Nielsen getting a crazy offer, I'm going to be a bit miffed when the team benches me instantly for minor issues, when my coach appears to be an utter failure at developing players, and when I get jerked around on my contract for a couple hundred K because the team needed to add a bottom line player and a mediocre-to-bad defenseman.

I don't care if the team thinks this is how you turn a guy from a potential top line scorer into a two-way middle sixer. I don't care if they're right. If I'm the player, I'm not going to be happy about any of that. The double standards, the utter failure to identify and reward actual talent? I wouldn't be expecting $4m, but I'd certainly be expecting to get more ice time than some of the no-future-trash that get to play with no negative repercussions whatsoever on this team, and I'd hope I'd get paid before garbage like Witkowski.

Miffed? Sure.

But the proper response to being miffed about something like that is showing on a day-in, day-out basis that you're better than whatever no-talent scrub it is. It isn't to **** and moan about how meanie Blashill is giving Riley Sheahan your ice time. Make him give you the ice time.

And frankly, I'm not in the room (clearly), but I don't think most of the guys there look at it like "what the hell! Sheahan doesn't score a goal and he plays every game and you're benching me?!" They see Darren Helm as a guy who's probably pretty fun to play with because you know he's going balls to the wall every shift. They'll probably see a guy like Dan Cleary (at least until his last year where he could hardly lift his legs) as a grizzled warrior who's busting his ass and, even if he'd get his crap ruined, would jump into the fray to protect you.

I think a lot of the angst about how the young guys are treated is 100% because the fanbase personally doesn't like the veterans. I mean, when you have Mantha repeatedly come out and say "yeah, I need to be better" and then the stories of Green laying him the **** out in practice cause he was skating lazy there and him not going off the deep end, I think it's more that the fans are looking for any reason to discredit what's going on.

And you can scoff at the notion of "paying your dues" and talk about how if you're AA and you don't like it... but it really kinda comes down to tough ****. You want to jump the line and get a huge payday? Come out and score 100 points and be the best player in the league. Jump out to be the #1C on your team because you're so damn good. Don't just put up good offensive rate stats in ridiculously sheltered situations (he's between 62 and 64% O-zone starts) Otherwise, put on your working pants and get to work. If AA consistently played as well as he's capable of, the Wings wouldn't be playing him 9-14 minutes a night and they wouldn't be hammering at his bridge contract.

The cap situation is why they are sitting so firm on his deal, but AA also does clearly have things to work on. If he were a complete player, they wouldn't have left him for last.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

From what I understand we are already roughly 4 million over, and don't want to go over by an amount that exceeds what will come off when Franzen goes to LTIR.

Regardless... literally every article I have seen says he is unsigned because of cap reasons.

Yes. And he is unsigned because of cap reasons. They don't have any need to be cap compliant this second, nor make a move to get rid of some depth to free up money. They do not gain anything by signing him on 8/22 as opposed to 8/29 or 9/8.

 

[The Old Master]

Yes. And he is unsigned because of cap reasons. They don't have any need to be cap compliant this second, nor make a move to get rid of some depth to free up money. They do not gain anything by signing him on 8/22 as opposed to 8/29 or 9/8.

it would stop the offer sheet threat.

 

[TCNorthstars]

it would stop the offer sheet threat.

Offer sheet threat?

That threat is about as real as me threatening to leave my kid at home in the cage with the dog while the rest of us go get ice cream...

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

it would stop the offer sheet threat.

That has likely less than a 1% chance of happening.

I guarantee you that no front office in the league is seriously considering an offersheet that the Wings wouldn't match immediately.

No front office is looking to give a 2nd round pick and give Andreas Athanasiou here today a 3.2M bridge contract.

Fanbases always salivate over a guy like AA because his rate stats are fantastic and oh my god if you just played him 20 minutes a night, he'd be an offensive dynamo.

Never mind the fact that the Wings, even in cap hell, could match a 3.2M offer sheet and then they'd move Riley Sheahan or similar to some team for a low round pick or make some move like that.

There is not a credible offer sheet threat to worry about.

 

[njx9]

Miffed? Sure.

But the proper response to being miffed about something like that is showing on a day-in, day-out basis that you're better than whatever no-talent scrub it is. It isn't to **** and moan about how meanie Blashill is giving Riley Sheahan your ice time. Make him give you the ice time.

I'm not arguing that AA is right to whine about it, but it wouldn't make me eager to sign anything that either left years of team control at the end, or extended past the end of team control. And I wouldn't be doing any cost-cutting favors, if I thought I was worth more than whatever I was being offered.

I also don't buy that Blashill would respond to AA playing well by giving him more playing time, given that he demonstrably didn't react to guys playing poorly by cutting their ice time. AA was, on paper, the best scorer on a team that stunk at scoring, and he still couldn't get any meaningful ice time, behind guys who were defensively inept, and offensively ECHL-level.

And frankly, I'm not in the room (clearly), but I don't think most of the guys there look at it like "what the hell! Sheahan doesn't score a goal and he plays every game and you're benching me?!" They see Darren Helm as a guy who's probably pretty fun to play with because you know he's going balls to the wall every shift. They'll probably see a guy like Dan Cleary (at least until his last year where he could hardly lift his legs) as a grizzled warrior who's busting his ass and, even if he'd get his crap ruined, would jump into the fray to protect you.

I think the vets look at those guys and love it, because they know they can get away with the same thing. I don't want to speculate on the kids, but watching veterans get special treatment, in spite of being bad players, is rarely inspiring.

I think a lot of the angst about how the young guys are treated is 100% because the fanbase personally doesn't like the veterans. I mean, when you have Mantha repeatedly come out and say "yeah, I need to be better" and then the stories of Green laying him the **** out in practice cause he was skating lazy there and him not going off the deep end, I think it's more that the fans are looking for any reason to discredit what's going on.

Or it's Mantha, continuing to lack any actual fire (which isn't my storyline, personally, but it's one that circulated). If a defenseman is taking it upon himself ot blow up a rookie, when the season has long since been lost, and the rookie isn't even upset about it, I think it speaks volumes about the overall feeling in the locker room. I don't buy into the 'losing culture' crap, but this is down the same road.

And you can scoff at the notion of "paying your dues" and talk about how if you're AA and you don't like it... but it really kinda comes down to tough ****. You want to jump the line and get a huge payday? Come out and score 100 points and be the best player in the league. Jump out to be the #1C on your team because you're so damn good. Don't just put up good offensive rate stats in ridiculously sheltered situations (he's between 62 and 64% O-zone starts) Otherwise, put on your working pants and get to work. If AA consistently played as well as he's capable of, the Wings wouldn't be playing him 9-14 minutes a night and they wouldn't be hammering at his bridge contract.

If AA wasn't consistently getting yanked off the ice because he missed a single assignment, he might be doing some of that. Instead, the team overpunishes his mistakes, while allowing garbage players to make an infinite number of mistakes. I don't see how that wouldn't rankle, as you sit on the bench for the last 40 minutes of the game.

I'd also add that, half of the criticisms you're making are demonstrably not things he can change. He can't produce in all situations, if he's only getting on the ice in certain situations. And he's outproducing basically everyone when he does get chances.

The cap situation is why they are sitting so firm on his deal, but AA also does clearly have things to work on. If he were a complete player, they wouldn't have left him for last.

I don't buy it. This front office has done absolutely nothing to suggest they have any player development or contractual competence in the recent past. They no longer get any benefit of the doubt. Blashill gets even less after nearly the entire team regressed badly the minute he got behind the bench.


That said, I don't really care about AA's future in Detroit. He won't be part of the next core, either because he'll be gone, or because the team demonstrably can't develop talent. Sign him or don't, it doesn't really have any bearing on the team.

 

[Shaman464]

Miffed? Sure.

But the proper response to being miffed about something like that is showing on a day-in, day-out basis that you're better than whatever no-talent scrub it is. It isn't to **** and moan about how meanie Blashill is giving Riley Sheahan your ice time. Make him give you the ice time.

And frankly, I'm not in the room (clearly), but I don't think most of the guys there look at it like "what the hell! Sheahan doesn't score a goal and he plays every game and you're benching me?!" They see Darren Helm as a guy who's probably pretty fun to play with because you know he's going balls to the wall every shift. They'll probably see a guy like Dan Cleary (at least until his last year where he could hardly lift his legs) as a grizzled warrior who's busting his ass and, even if he'd get his crap ruined, would jump into the fray to protect you.

I think a lot of the angst about how the young guys are treated is 100% because the fanbase personally doesn't like the veterans. I mean, when you have Mantha repeatedly come out and say "yeah, I need to be better" and then the stories of Green laying him the **** out in practice cause he was skating lazy there and him not going off the deep end, I think it's more that the fans are looking for any reason to discredit what's going on.

And you can scoff at the notion of "paying your dues" and talk about how if you're AA and you don't like it... but it really kinda comes down to tough ****. You want to jump the line and get a huge payday? Come out and score 100 points and be the best player in the league. Jump out to be the #1C on your team because you're so damn good. Don't just put up good offensive rate stats in ridiculously sheltered situations (he's between 62 and 64% O-zone starts) Otherwise, put on your working pants and get to work. If AA consistently played as well as he's capable of, the Wings wouldn't be playing him 9-14 minutes a night and they wouldn't be hammering at his bridge contract.

The cap situation is why they are sitting so firm on his deal, but AA also does clearly have things to work on. If he were a complete player, they wouldn't have left him for last.

Wow, well said. Agreed on all points. I don't want to lose AA, but he's not in a position to make demands. Yeah a lot of us called it when Helm and Abbie were locked down for long contracts that it would hurt Holland's ability to bargain, but AA doesn't deserve a deal that would take him into FA or that is huge dollars because so far he's not shown that he's a core piece. His 43 points in 101 games doesn't even compare favorably to Tatar's 46 in 91, and it didn't take long to sign Tatar to a good deal (he was signed to a 3 year deal for 2.75/year by the end of July). In the end the fair deal would be 2 years 4 million total, which is market value for a player like him. If he wants 3 or more I say make it known and see if other teams try to snipe him with a larger contract (hopefully 3.9 or more) and take the pick.

 

[Flowah]

You guys are gonna have to decide if you want a meritocracy or not. Do we want the best players to play or do we want players to "pay their dues?"

And before you answer with your choice, I want you to decide what you'd do if your boss kept passing you over for promotions for the guy who'd been there longer, despite the fact you're actually better at your job. Then he pulls you aside and say "Be miffed but don't look for another job and don't quit. Just show me you're better than the guy I promoted instead of you."

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

You guys are gonna have to decide if you want a meritocracy or not. Do we want the best players to play or do we want players to "pay their dues?"

And before you answer with your choice, I want you to decide what you'd do if your boss kept passing you over for promotions for the guy who'd been there longer, despite the fact you're actually better at your job. Then he pulls you aside and say "Be miffed but don't look for another job and don't quit. Just show me you're better than the guy I promoted instead of you."

A couple things..

1) If you work in a unionized job... that's exactly what ****ing happens. I worked at the Ford Dearborn plant and you'd routinely see worthless sacks of human **** get promoted or bumped up or given a more desirable shift because they'd been there longer or know a guy . Sports are a unionized job... so essentially, it kinda is "wait your turn". You only get to cut that line if you demonstrate without question that you're better than the guy in front of you. And that doesn't just mean the stats sheet.

2) That is also where a manager's role comes in. To explain to the everydayer, the very talented what is going on and to maintain their faith in the organization. That means that behind closed doors, Blashill should be letting Mantha or AA know at some point that they are huge part of the plan going forward, if they are.

And to end... even outside of a union job, the proper response to being passed over for a promotion isn't to ***** and moan that someone else got it.

 

[Ezekial]

Main board rumor

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Main board rumor

Cool. We can enjoy our time with guys like Helm and Abdelkader who are "hard workers" and "paid their dues".

Though I could be wrong, and perhaps AA is asking for a ridiculous amount of money.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Cool. We can enjoy our time with guys like Helm and Abdelkader who are "hard workers" and "paid their dues".

Though I could be wrong, and perhaps AA is asking for a ridiculous amount of money.

Or you know, this is a nothing rumor like 75% of what is put out about hockey on a daily basis.

 

[Shaman464]

Cool. We can enjoy our time with guys like Helm and Abdelkader who are "hard workers" and "paid their dues".

Though I could be wrong, and perhaps AA is asking for a ridiculous amount of money.

It depends on how far apart they are. He should get 2 @ 2-2.5 a year. If he's asking north of 3.5 then I could see why things aren't going anywhere.

 

[GBFP]

Likely for more money than Detroit can pay and he'd get to play in the Olympics for Team Canada.

Hell, we keep his RFA rights don't we? So solves our cap issue in the short term, we suck anyways so who cares if he's gone for a year or two and then when we have a better cap situation he comes back if we still want him.

 

[Ezekial]

Yea I'm taking that rumor with a salt lick portion, but could be a leverage move. He should be signed already, I can't see him getting 2.5 million so I don't get why he hasn't been given 2, cap can be worked around 2 without injury other than Sproul.


Custance came out with an article about him today, if you have the sub.
https://theathletic.com/87870/2017/08/22/the-360-degree-view-red-wings-winger-andreas-athanasiou/

 

[StargateSG1]

Or you know, this is a nothing rumor like 75% of what is put out about hockey on a daily basis.

And you would know this how, exactly?

 

[Mijatovic]

And before you answer with your choice, I want you to decide what you'd do if your boss kept passing you over for promotions for the guy who'd been there longer, despite the fact you're actually better at your job. Then he pulls you aside and say "Be miffed but don't look for another job and don't quit. Just show me you're better than the guy I promoted instead of you."

Going through this now at work. Better than teh guys getting promotions yet being told to pay my dues. And the guys wonder why I don't go out of my way to help them when they ask for it. Actively looking for outside jobs. As should AA. Except being RFA aint quite the same level of options

 

[Goalie guy]

Miffed? Sure.

But the proper response to being miffed about something like that is showing on a day-in, day-out basis that you're better than whatever no-talent scrub it is. It isn't to **** and moan about how meanie Blashill is giving Riley Sheahan your ice time. Make him give you the ice time.

And frankly, I'm not in the room (clearly), but I don't think most of the guys there look at it like "what the hell! Sheahan doesn't score a goal and he plays every game and you're benching me?!" They see Darren Helm as a guy who's probably pretty fun to play with because you know he's going balls to the wall every shift. They'll probably see a guy like Dan Cleary (at least until his last year where he could hardly lift his legs) as a grizzled warrior who's busting his ass and, even if he'd get his crap ruined, would jump into the fray to protect you.

I think a lot of the angst about how the young guys are treated is 100% because the fanbase personally doesn't like the veterans. I mean, when you have Mantha repeatedly come out and say "yeah, I need to be better" and then the stories of Green laying him the **** out in practice cause he was skating lazy there and him not going off the deep end, I think it's more that the fans are looking for any reason to discredit what's going on.

And you can scoff at the notion of "paying your dues" and talk about how if you're AA and you don't like it... but it really kinda comes down to tough ****. You want to jump the line and get a huge payday? Come out and score 100 points and be the best player in the league. Jump out to be the #1C on your team because you're so damn good. Don't just put up good offensive rate stats in ridiculously sheltered situations (he's between 62 and 64% O-zone starts) Otherwise, put on your working pants and get to work. If AA consistently played as well as he's capable of, the Wings wouldn't be playing him 9-14 minutes a night and they wouldn't be hammering at his bridge contract.

The cap situation is why they are sitting so firm on his deal, but AA also does clearly have things to work on. If he were a complete player, they wouldn't have left him for last.

When has he pissed and moaned about trashill? Answer he has not. Now Pete did and now he is a head case with mental issues lol. They have every right in the world to ***** and call people out in the public for mismanagement of the team. If your co worker done nothing all year long, I mean nothing and you bust your ass part time out perform him and still are part time while he is full time you can *****.

 

[Frk It]

Yea I'm taking that rumor with a salt lick portion, but could be a leverage move. He should be signed already, I can't see him getting 2.5 million so I don't get why he hasn't been given 2, cap can be worked around 2 without injury other than Sproul.


Custance came out with an article about him today, if you have the sub.
https://theathletic.com/87870/2017/08/22/the-360-degree-view-red-wings-winger-andreas-athanasiou/

Custance confirmed the KHL offer is legit.



What a ****ing mess.